21st century keyboard

[thebeyonder]

I was thinking, there's a lot of characters that get typed nowadays, that relatively speaking weren't barely used when the keyboard was invented. anyways the PC keyboard layout is almost a direct copy from the typewriter keyboard layout.

why not toss the crusty old layout currently used? I think the QWERTY part of the keyboard should remain, but all the rest needs rearrangement badly.

I don't know exactly what, but so you get an idea, take that strip of number keys 1-9 off the top, we already have a number pad to the right. the weird characters we type all the time @,$,%,*,(,),<,>,? (and programmers even more) should be together and not having to press SHIFT to type them every time. maybe grouped with the insert/delete/home/end/pgup keys.

I thought it was such a great idea, not having to press SHIFT every time I type a @, I went to urge Logitech to start production on such keyboards immediately. guess what, they don't have any email or web page for input from customers.

if you really think about it, that's crappy. to hell with them. I don't think I'm going to buy anything from them anymore. if they don't need my input, they don't need my business either.

so does anybody have another idea of a keyboard manufacturer who might be interested in finally designing a keyboard that's actually laid out for computer users instead of typewriter users?

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

There are already alternative layout keyboards. The problem is that no one cares enough to seek them out, so the existing ones are expensive due to low sales, and are usually ugly because the tiny companies making them can't afford good design.

I assume your idea for getting rid of shift implies that we would use a numeric keypad to the side for number entry? No thanks. Numpads are a waste of space and should be abolished. And there you have one of the other issues, which is that everyone has their own opinion, and when you start to try making and selling something for very picky users, you have a hard time pleasing them.

 

[jaydee]

I assume your idea for getting rid of shift implies that we would use a numeric keypad to the side for number entry? No thanks. Numpads are a waste of space and should be abolished. And there you have one of the other issues, which is that everyone has their own opinion, and when you start to try making and selling something for very picky users, you have a hard time pleasing them.

Either you have a really dry humor, or... I have to see pics of your workspace if the extra 3 inches on the rightside of your keyboard is that inconvenient for you.

I like the OP's idea. Should make an engineering keyboard with easily accessible greek symbols and degree symbols, etc. without having to type something like alt-176. Not that everyone should conform to my ideas, but it seems like enough people would get use of it to pursue.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Either you have a really dry humor, or... I have to see pics of your workspace if the extra 3 inches on the rightside of your keyboard is that inconvenient for you.

I'm not sure how inconvenient it is since I haven't had a keyboard with a numpad in many years. It just bothers me on principle. What I can tell you is that I instinctually put my mouse where the numpad would be -- and so do many other people -- so clearly the width of traditional keyboards is not ideal.

For something I use all day long, why would I tolerate poor, thoughtless design?

 

[jaydee]

To each their own I suppose. I can't imagine typing all my numbers in the bar style above the keys.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

I would just like for the number pad and phones to have the numbers in the same order.

 

[Fayd]

Either you have a really dry humor, or... I have to see pics of your workspace if the extra 3 inches on the rightside of your keyboard is that inconvenient for you.

I like the OP's idea. Should make an engineering keyboard with easily accessible greek symbols and degree symbols, etc. without having to type something like alt-176. Not that everyone should conform to my ideas, but it seems like enough people would get use of it to pursue.

numpads are fine, keyboards without numpads are fine.

i wish my keyboard tray was wide enough that it could fit a full keyboard. as is, in order to fit a macro pad onto the keyboard tray, i had to give up the full size keyboard. it's a sacrifice i was willing to do.

people who make posts like the op suffer from the delusion that everybody uses their keyboard in the same way that they do.

to the op: for numerical data entry, the numpad is FAR better than the number row.

 

[thebeyonder]

I would just like for the number pad and phones to have the numbers in the same order.

I was thinking that too. forgot to say it.

people who make posts like the op suffer from the delusion that everybody uses their keyboard in the same way that they do.

screw you, 'k?

to the op: for numerical data entry, the numpad is FAR better than the number row.

thanks for telling me that. now you might want to go back and read the OP again where I said

take that strip of number keys 1-9 off the top, we already have a number pad to the right.

 

[TheStu]

I was thinking that too. forgot to say it.



screw you, 'k?



thanks for telling me that. now you might want to go back and read the OP again where I said

Have you considered either designing your own, or using a software solution?

 

[Fayd]

I was thinking that too. forgot to say it.



screw you, 'k?



thanks for telling me that. now you might want to go back and read the OP again where I said

okay... but if i'm just typing one number, i still want to only have to just reach a little farther with a finger than move all the way over to the numpad.

 

[thebeyonder]

Have you considered either designing your own, or using a software solution?

yes! photoshop!

before:

after:

all the same keys are there. also swapped some around. I could have stacked all the brackets same as the } and had three extra blank keys. but programmers use those brackets a lot.

doesn't a layout like this make a lot more sense?

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Programmers type numbers quite a bit too, and having to move their hand half a foot over to the numpad is far worse than having to press shift for curly brackets.

 

[thebeyonder]

I think I found the keyboard for you.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

That's a good option for people who can only use one hand. I use a two-handed version that is otherwise the same basic design:

 

[davidrees]

I thought it was such a great idea, not having to press SHIFT every time I type a @, I went to urge Logitech to start production on such keyboards immediately. guess what, they don't have any email or web page for input from customers.

if you really think about it, that's crappy. to hell with them. I don't think I'm going to buy anything from them anymore. if they don't need my input, they don't need my business either.

so does anybody have another idea of a keyboard manufacturer who might be interested in finally designing a keyboard that's actually laid out for computer users instead of typewriter users?

I don't get why you think one person with very strongly held ideas about unusual designs is someone that a mass market company would be interested in listening to.

And are you REALLY a Logitech "customer"? Because I am. I have used the G15 and I currently use the G110 because I like the layout and the red illumination.

You know what is cool about the G110? Over on the left, there are 12 "G keys" that are fully programmable. Not only that, there are 3 profile keys and each profile can have it's own lighting color.

So rather than design a keyboard that suits one persons idea of what a keyboard should do, they went and designed a keyboard that lets anyone assign any special key they like.

If you really think about that, it's a much better and by better, I mean "more likely to be profitable" solution.

 

[killster1]

I don't get why you think one person with very strongly held ideas about unusual designs is someone that a mass market company would be interested in listening to.

And are you REALLY a Logitech "customer"? Because I am. I have used the G15 and I currently use the G110 because I like the layout and the red illumination.

You know what is cool about the G110? Over on the left, there are 12 "G keys" that are fully programmable. Not only that, there are 3 profile keys and each profile can have it's own lighting color.

So rather than design a keyboard that suits one persons idea of what a keyboard should do, they went and designed a keyboard that lets anyone assign any special key they like.

If you really think about that, it's a much better and by better, I mean "more likely to be profitable" solution.

i like the new keyboard ideas. i however use g15's at every computer i own (ya i have alot of g15's but i love them) they are all the v1 too since i prefer the blue led. Pretty fancy case you have for that hardware davidrees

 

[bhanson]

Considering the majority of what people type are letters, QWERTY will slow you down significantly more than switching around some lesser used symbols.

Although obviously it's not going anywhere because people don't like change.

 

[konakona]

Agreed about people not liking a change, myself included.

One change I did like however was getting rid of the keypad ('tenkeyless' layout). While I understand how you may find that beneficial for productivity oriented tasks, t just has no place to belong for entertainment/gaming machines. The only thing I was missing after moving onto the tenkeyless filco was the enter button on the keypad (default fullscreen key for kmplayer/potplayer), but didn't take me too long to get used to pressing the other enter key. I really like this since you gain huge space on the right, giving more maneuvering room for your mouse for FPS/RTS type games, plus allows your WASD to be positioned closer to the middle for more convenient/ergonomic setup (to me anyway). If you ever happen to have a nice keyboard to lug around, that also sheds some weight for better luggability.

 

[bhanson]

Agreed about people not liking a change, myself included.

One change I did like however was getting rid of the keypad ('tenkeyless' layout). While I understand how you may find that beneficial for productivity oriented tasks, t just has no place to belong for entertainment/gaming machines. The only thing I was missing after moving onto the tenkeyless filco was the enter button on the keypad (default fullscreen key for kmplayer/potplayer), but didn't take me too long to get used to pressing the other enter key. I really like this since you gain huge space on the right, giving more maneuvering room for your mouse for FPS/RTS type games, plus allows your WASD to be positioned closer to the middle for more convenient/ergonomic setup (to me anyway). If you ever happen to have a nice keyboard to lug around, that also sheds some weight for better luggability.

Since we're on the subject, ESDF is better than WASD. ;P

 

[Maximilian]

Im glad logitech dosent have anywhere for people to post their dumb ideas too, what a fantastic company they are

The keyboard should be left alone, if you dont like the layout then pull the friggin keys off and rearrange them, then do it in windows. Sorted. New keyboard that you and only you will enjoy using.

 

[bhanson]

Im glad logitech dosent have anywhere for people to post their dumb ideas too, what a fantastic company they are

The keyboard should be left alone, if you dont like the layout then pull the friggin keys off and rearrange them, then do it in windows. Sorted. New keyboard that you and only you will enjoy using.

Well, it's hard to argue that our current keyboard layout couldn't be better, it's just significantly more difficult to actually implement any change.

In the metric vs imperial argument the *only* benefit imperial has is that we're already using it--nothing else.

 

[konakona]

Since we're on the subject, ESDF is better than WASD. ;P

Too far away from ctrl, tab, shift, caps lock I don't see much benefit though..

 

[CurseTheSky]

Arrow keys need to disappear. WASD should be the "universal" arrow keys (perhaps with a locking toggle for scrolling documents? 99&#37; of people use the mouse to scroll anyway), with the numpad as a backup multi-direction arrow key area.

 

[bhanson]

Too far away from ctrl, tab, shift, caps lock I don't see much benefit though..

Your hand is already on SDF when naturally typing on your homerow, this allows you to not have to unnaturally shift your hand. Because the F key gives tactile feedback you can reposition back to ESDF quicker than WASD.

Ctrl is already in a terrible spot, and most power users switch left caps lock and left ctrl anyway. Left ctrl (when in place of left caps lock) is not any more difficult to press than using WASD.

Shift is also not any more difficult to push since your pinky is probably resting there anyway. I believe the same is true for tab, unless you have some funky hands and your pinky rests directly next to your ring finger.

Besides not having to reposition your hand when transitioning to typing and back, you also gain an entire column of extra keybinds. Depending on what games you play this may or may not be important, but even if you cannot utilize the extra binds it's hard to argue objectively against the merits of ESDF. WASD is an archaic convention from the original days of FPS.

But once again, people don't like change, even when it's a good thing.

 

[konakona]

I play different type of games, and completely readjust my hand positioning accordingly. For games that utilize two rows of keys (vanguard princess, some other fighting games), I find the rows starting with Q and W ideal. SWR and IaMP are best played (IMO) with keys on the bottom rows starting with shift (bound to graze), whereas for MBR I just leave it at the default setting of [, . / L].

The point I guess is I don't necessarily rest my hands on sdfg unless it is some type of multiplayer game that requires to me to type constantly. But when I play competitive FPS, I rarely ever type, just kill, kill, kill... MMOs that do need a whole lotta typing don't always come in wasd configuration anyway.

I don't have any trouble reaching for ctrl, could be that I am used to it.

To me, caps lock is for stuff that are toggled (run, or whatever that only needs to
be pressed so often), as my mind is already subconsciously set that the type of task that the key at that spot is for.

I use my ring finger to press tab, not pinky. Feels so natural to me, didn't even think people would do otherwise! This is true for regular typing as well, tiling my pinky up that high causes my whole hand to move, definitely more work than just reaching out with my ring finger. Could be my funky hands after all

I usually try to keep things simple and leave less room for error. For FPS types, I most frequently use q for quick switching weapons. Having another row to the left is just more room for error (pressing wrong keys). One of the games I play uses function keys for 'priming' skills, and for that I bind skills that are most commonly used and time critical to the edges (F1, F4, F5, F8, F9, F12) so to avoid accidental clicks (getting mixed up and priming wrong skills) in the heat of battle. Seems to work pretty well for me.