$25.00 from FORD for survey!

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MrPhelps

Golden Member
Sep 9, 2001
1,421
0
0
Originally posted by: Buddhist
you guys realize that its a market and quality of product research and by answering bogus answers to it are completely tampering with whatever information the company finds out right? In other words your screwing up Fords chances of improving sales and quality for your own benefit. Ironically, macroeconomics teaches us that it basically all comes back to us anyhow.

Just one more reason why reward based traditional market research can not be done online without a controlled group of people accessing it.

Gee Ford Motor Company doesn't have enough forsight to get out of the rain. Too bad for them.
I never wanted to bail out chrysler a couple of times, But we did anyway.


Ahhh who cares.
I do, I guess I should be more caring.

-M.T.O

 

Acts837

Golden Member
Mar 11, 2001
1,072
0
0
phreakyzen - as long as you (or anyone for that matter) can look themselves in the mirror....

you are right - I wonder what Ted Bundy thought of ethics?
 

Buddhist

Golden Member
Jan 15, 2000
1,776
0
0
"Gee Ford Motor Company doesn't have enough forsight to get out of the rain. Too bad for them.
I never wanted to bail out chrysler a couple of times, But we did anyway.


Ahhh who cares.
I do, I guess I should be more caring."

If your going to go quoting my statements mr phelps the least you can do is quote without adding your statements into it and passing them off as mine.

-M.T.O
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,036
548
126
Originally posted by: Buddhist
you guys realize that its a market and quality of product research and by answering bogus answers to it are completely tampering with whatever information the company finds out right? In other words your screwing up Fords chances of improving sales and quality for your own benefit. Ironically, macroeconomics teaches us that it basically all comes back to us anyhow.

Just one more reason why reward based traditional market research can not be done online without a controlled group of people accessing it.

-M.T.O

Personally, I answered truthfully. I can understand your position if I put in bogus answers. You shouldn't just assume that everyone will bs on this.
 

Buddhist

Golden Member
Jan 15, 2000
1,776
0
0
"Personally, I answered truthfully. I can understand your position if I put in bogus answers. You shouldn't just assume that everyone will bs on this. "

Well if you received one of the brochures they are reffering to then certainly you are deserving of filling the research and as such in line for some kind of compensation for the time you put in on their behalf.

On the other hand, answering the questions honestly doesn't mean diddly squat if you don't really know what brochure they are talking about nor received ever such brochure. I could have gone ahead and filled it out honestly but still have never received the brochure. In this particular case regarding the survey the criteria for being eligible is not whether or not your willing to answer the survey honestly but rather whether or not you received the brochure and or services in question.

Regarding assuming everyone was BSing answers, is simply not true. However, I would like to point out that i doubt most people had received the brochure in question when responding to the survey to receive the reward as I'm sure they would have already known about the compensation. If they did receive the brochure and they didn't know about the link I'm willing to bet they are still in the minority of people who responded to the survey.

-M.T.O



 

KCheng

Member
Jul 19, 2002
80
0
0
Originally posted by: Buddhist
you guys realize that its a market and quality of product research and by answering bogus answers to it are completely tampering with whatever information the company finds out right? In other words your screwing up Fords chances of improving sales and quality for your own benefit. Ironically, macroeconomics teaches us that it basically all comes back to us anyhow.

Just one more reason why reward based traditional market research can not be done online without a controlled group of people accessing it.

-M.T.O

You make a valid point, HOWEVER don't you think that any survey, online or not, has a certain range of error, where people can assume that there ARE bogus answers? Statistics teaches us that with the number of customers Ford has, a few (maybe even a few hundred) will probably not skew the data too greatly. You should always assume those outliers, as it is impossible to get a perfect concensus from so many people.

Just my 2 cents...
 

Buddhist

Golden Member
Jan 15, 2000
1,776
0
0
"You make a valid point, HOWEVER don't you think that any survey, online or not, has a certain range of error, where people can assume that there ARE bogus answers? Statistics teaches us that with the number of customers Ford has, a few (maybe even a few hundred) will probably not skew the data too greatly. You should always assume those outliers, as it is impossible to get a perfect concensus from so many people.

Just my 2 cents..."

You are absolutely correct that they expect answers to be skewed. However, i'll contend at the same time that they are not expecting the answers to be skewed by people who were not invited to participate in the survey in such large quantities as the anandtech effect has shown time and time again. If however, the marketing firm contracted to do the survey knows what the hell they are doing, they will cross check the survey address or whatever personal information against where the brochures went, in order to ensure accuracy in survey information. Generally these surveys expect a certain margin of error due to inviduals lying or being dishonest etc. However, if they don't take into account a filtering process of those who filled out the survey without receiving a brochure, their results will be seriously skewed. Furthermore, Ford will have to send out gift certificates upto whatever they agreed to send out, while gaining nothing but a bad experience and a loss of money in exchange.
 

buffalotoys.com

Senior member
Jan 24, 2000
869
0
0
Its a corporation. Corporations follow the rules as they and their legal advisors interpret them with regards to us, balancing liability with profit motive.
In order that my relationship with said corporation be on an equal footing, I will treat them with the same position and attitude that they treat me. Its only fair, it's business.

(Internal documents show that in the late 1970s Ford determined that the Ford Pinto was liable to cause the death of some passengers due to a design flaw in the gas intake. After computing the cost of retrofit versus the cost of out of court settlements with the projected number of fatalities, they decided that it would be less costly to let some passengers die and pay them off than to recall the car, and that is the course they followed)
 

jjm

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,505
0
0
Buffalotoys.com (and others of similar opinion), if that is your view, your opinion precisely mirrors those of former execs at Enron, Worldcom, Adelphia, Arthur Andersen, Tyco, and the others who are currently under investigation. Congratulations; you're in great company. It's extremely easy to take the position that those big, bad corporate types are looking to screw you at every possible turn. Using this logic to justify your own actions is, at best, shallow. Just feeling the need to respond with some lame justification should be enough to tell you that any form of dishonesty is counter-productive. I don't much care about a survey, but relying on that type of logic on larger issues probably ends up getting you indicted some time in the future.
 

buffalotoys.com

Senior member
Jan 24, 2000
869
0
0
Not saying the screw people...
I'm just saying that a corporation views consumers as prey (in a not so nasty sense of the word)
Pepsi will do what it is acceptable legally to make a profit selling sugar water. That includes advertising, etc. that may be somewhat misleading, or harm social values through sexual stereotyping.
They may overprice their product so that the value the consumer gets is not really good - whatever the traffic will bear.

Companies made snack foods and others with the label "Light" which could mean anything from thinner in consistency to lighter in color, to possibly lower in calories, knowing that consumers would buy it based on the calorie assumption - until in the 90's the govt. passed regulation on this point.

Companies market products that have 30% less fat than our regular product! And it turns out that they simply have reduced the suggested serving size by 30%

This is what they DO. Corporations by their nature have to weight all these things to balance legality with profitability. To maximize shareholder profits.

This is NOT the same as the Enron mess, because THOSE people BROKE THE LAW. I am not advocating breaking the law. I am not excusing anyone from breaking the law.

All I am saying is that in any interaction between a corporation and an individual, the individual should realize that they are at the disadvantage and take whatever opportunities they can to increase their advantage to profit (at least through lower prices) from that corporation.
Thats just sound business sense. Haggling.

This is the case ESPECIALLY in light of the fact that corporations now have a far more powerful influence on our government than citizens do.
 

jjm

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,505
0
0
I would still take issue with "stickin' it to 'em" by playing their own game. All corporations are motivated to make a profit, but not all do so by manipulating the consumer. They may have superior knowledge in some ways, but that is also partly due to the fact that too many consumers are too lazy to care. That's a problem that only education can fix, and we know the sorry state of education in the US.

As for influence, don't expect anything to get better. As we speak, the current administration is still working to soften and reduce regulation, particularly environmental regulation. It's not that I don't think some of the ideas have some merit, but, as you point out, too many corporate bad guys will look for loopholes and other ways to manipulate the system to their advantage. It's a shame, but that's why tough regulation coupled with enforcement might be unavoidable in our economy.
 

dude8604

Platinum Member
Oct 3, 2001
2,680
0
0
IF YOU WERE NOT SPECIFICALLY INVITED TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS SURVEY IN A LETTER MAILED WITH A FORD BROCHURE THAT YOU REQUESTED, WE CAN NOT USE YOUR RESPONSES AND YOU ARE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR ANY INCENTIVE FOR COMPLETING THE SURVEY.

 

Buddhist

Golden Member
Jan 15, 2000
1,776
0
0
I'd just to point out two things.
First, Ford received a punitive court damages of 128 million for the pinto fiascal which in the end ended up being a sum considerably less then the actual amount they were ordered to pay. Ford itself had also estimated the total cost to fix every vehicle to be 125 million. So because Ford's decision took only quantitative analysis into measure they failed to recognize the qualitative damage that would occur from the Pinto Fiascal. Here we are even 20 years later talking about the incident. This is a clear scar on the corporate and brand name in quality that inevitably echoed in the back of every ford consumer aware of the case. That kind of damage easily exceeds the 120 million they saved by deciding not to reveal the fault and call back cars. The punitive damage in this case also was given because the NHTSA (national highway transportation safety administration) protestsed Ford's decision and in the end forced them to recall their cars anyhow, resulting in the ultimate in murphys law for Ford. ~$125 million for recall, ~5 million punitive damage, massive brand name scaring.

Another thing to note is this, this case is THE precedent for cost/ benefit based statistical risk analysis. As stated above, Ford obviously forgot that in researching an opportunity cost two different measurements must be taken into consideration. Quantitative and Qualitative value. Due to Ford's clearly unethical decision and eventually modified by law afterwards to be illegal action (thats what punitive damage is folks!), Ford ended up paying through the nose for the whole ordeal. Therefore, it is in fact the rare occasion when being unethical is most beneficial to the business as often in those situations qualitative variables are dismissed without recognizing their quantitative impacts on the bottomline!

GM didn't learn from Ford's mistake and as a consequence was ordered to pay 4.9 billion in punitive damages for the same error in 1999. Just further evidence that being unethical in a corporation doesn't pay off. Clearly as stated previously by buffalotoys it is often a juggling or balancing behavior between profits and ethics for companies, yet often times the balance is distorted by huge and misplaced importance placed on profits mearly. As such, GM was punished a huge amount of money because they were aware of a precedent and even then choose to go through with their action and violate the law.

The ultimate fact is that an ethical standard must be followed by both cosumers and corporations in order for an efficient and advanced economy to function smoothly without disruption and economic downfall. This is an excellent time to show that this is especially true. Corporations (read Enron, Worldcom, Tyco etc.) cooking their books with maverick accounting, results in investors and creditors making decisions based upon not so accurate information. When the sh^t hits the fan like it did recently, investors and creditors become skiddish of investing due to misinformation and the large losses they suffered because of it. What this also means is that when these companies choose to be unethical about their products, quality and safety suffer while often production costs and inefficiency rises.

So what this all means is, there is no such thing as a free lunch and nothing good ever comes out of being unethical.
-M.T.O
 

alm4rr

Diamond Member
Dec 21, 2000
4,390
0
0
Originally posted by: Buddhist
I'd just to point out two things.
Ford itself had also estimated the total cost to fix every vehicle to be 125 million. . . . That kind of damage easily exceeds the 120 million they saved by deciding not to reveal the fault and call back cars. The punitive damage in this case also was given because the NHTSA (national highway transportation safety administration) protestsed Ford's decision and in the end forced them to recall their cars anyhow, resulting in the ultimate in murphys law for Ford. ~$125 million for recall, ~5 million punitive damage, massive brand name scaring.

Due to Ford's clearly unethical decision and eventually modified by law afterwards to be illegal action (thats what punitive damage is folks!), Ford ended up paying through the nose for the whole ordeal.

GM didn't learn from Ford's mistake and as a consequence was ordered to pay 4.9 billion in punitive damages for the same error in 1999. Just further evidence that being unethical in a corporation doesn't pay off.
-M.T.O


Yea, but just wait until the Republicans cap punitive damages and the death of your child becomes the cost of doing business. The top payoff for punitive damages is put into the equation and too bad if your child died b/c of company negligence - the casualty of business is only worth a punitive $250,000.
 
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