250GTS

[ArchAngel777]

I have to recant on my 9800GTX+ = 250GTS. While this is somewhat true, I noticed that there are some very special differences. Now, these were noted in reviews, but I don't think people always look at other viewpoints until they themselves have been there. I was building an HTPC a few weeks ago and realized that some of the best looking and functional cases out there generally only had room for a 9"~ video card. Well, this obviously limits what I could utilize.

Initially, I had really wanted to go for the 4770, but there were two major draw backs. The first was that no one seemed to have stock. The second was that only one board partner decided to make a dual slot exhaust cooler. This really upset me because the review boards that AMD supplied to reviewers did not represent the product as none of them, except one use the dual slot exhaust out of case design. I am a huge fan of dual slot coolers that exhaust the heat outside of the case and this is especially important with an HTPC. So with no 4770s available in a timely manner (looking at 2-4 week wait for the XFX) I decided to cancel my order and do some shopping.

Three main cards were getting looked at heavily by me. The 4830, 4850 and the 250GTS. I really like AMD, but I don't let company preference dictate what cards I purchase. I make the decision solely on price and features. After weighing the options, I went with 250GTS. It came with a free game that I was going to buy anyway (COD5) so I figured hey, I saved 40 or 50 bucks already and this actually puts it cheaper than the 4770.

So once I received my 250 GTS I noticed just how beautiful the card is. XFX has a great cooler design - they deviate from the reference design and I think it looks better. The 9800GTX+ in contrast is a much larger card and would not have fit in my case! So again, is the 250 GTS just a rebadged 9800GTX+? No!!! It is smaller and consumes less power while maintaining the same level performance. The 9800GTX+ would not have worked for me, but the 250 GTS did. That alone means it isn't just a rebadge like I had initially thought.

All of this to say? I was wrong... I didn't realize just how important a PCB redesign is until I actually ran into a situation where size mattered.



This thread is done.

AmberClad
Video Moderator

 

[vj8usa]

This might be a dumb question, but how can you tell if you're buying an actual redesigned card instead of the rebadged 9800? I know all the 1GB ones are the new design, but aren't a lot of the 512MB ones still rebadged 9800s? Or do you think those have been mostly sold and replaced with the new design by now?

Also, you might be surprised at how little dual slot/exhaust type coolers help case temperatures sometimes.
http://www.behardware.com/arti...l-characteristics.html

Not a lot of their heat is actually put outside of the case.

 

[Wreckage]

If you look at the original 9800GTX+ and the GTS250 1GB they are very much different.

 

[error8]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

The 9800GTX+ in contrast is a much larger card and would not have fit in my case! So again, is the 250 GTS just a rebadged 9800GTX+? No!!! It is smaller and consumes less power while maintaining the same level performance. The 9800GTX+ would not have worked for me, but the 250 GTS did. That alone means it isn't just a rebadge like I had initially thought.

All of this to say? I was wrong... I didn't realize just how important a PCB redesign is until I actually ran into a situation where size mattered.

The rebadged idea come mostly from the fact that they have the same performance level. It's the same GPU, the same memory chips, but there are some differences, like the PCB layout that you've pointed out.
When you are gaming, you wouldn't know if you have a GTS or a GTX+ in your computer.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: vj8usa
This might be a dumb question, but how can you tell if you're buying an actual redesigned card instead of the rebadged 9800? I know all the 1GB ones are the new design, but aren't a lot of the 512MB ones still rebadged 9800s? Or do you think those have been mostly sold and replaced with the new design by now?

Also, you might be surprised at how little dual slot/exhaust type coolers help case temperatures sometimes.
http://www.behardware.com/arti...l-characteristics.html

Not a lot of their heat is actually put outside of the case.

I don't think you can call it a 250 GTS if the PCB is the 10"+ one. Someone correct me if I am wrong, because if that is not the case - shame on that partner, or nVidia

As for dual slot cooler - thanks for the link. However, due to many variables (intake fans, their placement, exhaust fans, their placement, etc...) it is difficult to come to any concrete type conclusion.

 

[SlowSpyder]

It looks like Nvidia changed the reference design of the 9800GTX+ as well as used that newer reference design for the GTS250. You have to remember that the 9800GTX used to be Nvidia's flagship single GPU card, and it was pretty costly at around $400 if I remember correctly. When the GeForce GTX2x0 cards and the Radeon 48x0 cards launched the formerly high-end 9800 cards were now being sold in more mainstream to performance levels of the market. The cards were now selling for sub-$200. So, Nvidia had to save money, no point in putting highest end components any longer on a board that sells for less than $200. To implement these cost savings Nvidia redesigned the reference board. You can buy 9800GTX+ cards that use this design as well as obviously the GTS250.

Take a look at this 9800GTX+ card. It would have worked for you just the same, it is pretty much the same card as below with a different sticker.

Now, take a look at this GTS250.

Really, these two cards are just rebadges of one another. You can take the GPU out of either one and stick in in the other and never notice a difference.

What you are saying is correct when compared to the older design of the 9800GTX+. That board was longer, took two 6-pin power connectors, and used more power. But the new design appears to apply to both the GTS250 and newer 9800GTX+ cards.

*edit - Another updated 9800GTX+.

I hate that AT uses this stupid detonator.dynamitedata.com redirect... half the time it doesn't work so I get a page cannot be displayed. It's really, really annoying AT...

Originally posted by: vj8usa
This might be a dumb question, but how can you tell if you're buying an actual redesigned card instead of the rebadged 9800? I know all the 1GB ones are the new design, but aren't a lot of the 512MB ones still rebadged 9800s? Or do you think those have been mostly sold and replaced with the new design by now?

Also, you might be surprised at how little dual slot/exhaust type coolers help case temperatures sometimes.
http://www.behardware.com/arti...l-characteristics.html

Not a lot of their heat is actually put outside of the case.

The newly designed GTS250's and 9800GTX+ cards use a single power connector.

 

[toyota]

OP at least call it by its correct name. its GTS250 not 250GTS.

 

[Wreckage]

Original 9800GTX+ had 512mb of memory was 10.5" long and required 2 power plugs.

New GTS250 now comes with up to 1GB of memory is only 9" long and requires only 1 power plug. It also uses signifantly less power than the original GTX+

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: toyota
OP at least call it by its correct name. its GTS250 not 250GTS.

Bah... I am too lazy.

Which, BTW, seems ridiculous being that it doesn't line up with the 280GTX or 260GTX.

Edit ** Doh! I guess I am wrong about the 280GTX and 260GTX... I *always* thought the number was first... Oh well. I prefer my method better.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: toyota
OP at least call it by its correct name. its GTS250 not 250GTS.

Bah... I am too lazy.

Which, BTW, seems ridiculous being that it doesn't line up with the 280GTX or 260GTX.

what? its GTX260 and GTX260 so it does line up.

EDIT: I see you caught it while I was responding. lol

 

[IBDoomed]

To derail for a second: Did you get your HTPC running? Are you doing BR/HD? Which OS? I'm asking because I went through two gtx285's and two gtx260's and windows 7 kept crashing whenever we play an HDDVD. I finally put in a 4870 and it's been solid since. That was three months ago though and I don't know what the drivers are like now. Just curious.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Well, I was going to purchase a Blu-Ray drive, but I realized one major problem if I were to do that - I don't own any Blu Ray discs! I refuse to pay such a premium for them too... So I am sticking to DVD and as such, I opted not to go for a Blu-Ray drive at this time.

I do a lot of gaming on this HTPC - It is hooked up to my 50" Plasma. I also have Hulu setup on it and Windows Media Center. I purchase the Antec Remote Fusion Black (awesome case) and programmed it with my Harmony remote. My setup is very, very quiet when I am watching movies, surfing, etc... It only becomes loud (you guessed it) when I play games. Consquently, the sound is turned up so I never hear it regardless.

Seriously, if anyone is looking to do a HTPC build - I seriously recomend the Antec Remote Fusion (Not the max one, that is too large).

 

[ilkhan]

forgive the REALLY crappy pics, I didn't want to shut down my comp while taking them. (and yes, its a 512MB version) and only has ONE power plug
http://img35.imageshack.us/i/imag0006k.jpg/
http://img4.imageshack.us/i/imag0007nqw.jpg/

 

[SSChevy2001]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
So once I received my 250 GTS I noticed just how beautiful the card is. XFX has a great cooler design - they deviate from the reference design and I think it looks better. The 9800GTX+ in contrast is a much larger card and would not have fit in my case! So again, is the 250 GTS just a rebadged 9800GTX+? No!!! It is smaller and consumes less power while maintaining the same level performance. The 9800GTX+ would not have worked for me, but the 250 GTS did. That alone means it isn't just a rebadge like I had initially thought.

All of this to say? I was wrong... I didn't realize just how important a PCB redesign is until I actually ran into a situation where size mattered.

Some of the earlier GTS250 512MB are just rebadged 9800GTX+, but overall it's just another revision of a much earlier 8800GTS 512MB. Kind of funny how in the end it went back to the GTS name.

8800GTS 512MB, 9800GTX, 9800GTX+, GTS250

Comparing it to my older 8800GTS it's the exactly the same size, and in fact my 8800GTS will hit GTS250 clocks and higher, but you had a 8800GTS so you would know what I mean. The 6pin plug on the side though helps for small cases.

8800GTS
GTS250

 

[shangshang]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Original 9800GTX+ had 512mb of memory was 10.5" long and required 2 power plugs.

New GTS250 now comes with up to 1GB of memory is only 9" long and requires only 1 power plug. It also uses signifantly less power than the original GTX+

some GTS250 still uses the old 65nm process, meaning they still require 2 power connectors, and does not consume less power.. for example, the Galaxy GTS250 sold on Newegg is such

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: shangshang

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Original 9800GTX+ had 512mb of memory was 10.5" long and required 2 power plugs.

New GTS250 now comes with up to 1GB of memory is only 9" long and requires only 1 power plug. It also uses signifantly less power than the original GTX+

some GTS250 still uses the old 65nm process, meaning they still require 2 power connectors, and does not consume less power.. for example, the Galaxy GTS250 sold on Newegg is such

Right... I'm not sure how anyone can call this card anything but a 'rebadge'? The cards I linked above are rebadged versions of the newer board style, this card looks to be the older 65nm chip and needs two 6-pin connectors.

Also, doesn't an 8-pin connector deliver as much power as two 6-pin conenctors? This Zotac card uses an 8-pin connector. It's hard to tell, but it looks to be the longer board as well, the 10.5" board.

Between these and the boards I linked above you can see plenty of examples of rebadging.

Another older style GTS250 with two 6-pin power connectors.

 

[AzN]

It's the same chip. Different PCB on the 1 gb models.

 

[Wreckage]

You could just as easlily call the 4890 a rebadge of the 4870.

Who cares.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
You could just as easlily call the 4890 a rebadge of the 4870.

Who cares.

The 4890 is very closely related to the 4870, but it is A DIFFERENT CHIP than the 4870. It has more transistors and runs at a different speed. You cannot say any of those things about the 9800GTX+ to GTS250. The GPU's are identical. Their performance is identical. You can get the exact same, 100% identical card labeled as either a GTS250 or 9800GTX+, there are a few examples above.

Who cares? I really don't. But the OP started a thread saying why he feels that the GTS250 and 9800GTX+ are different cards, I gave evidence that they are not. Personally I think that it's a good thing that Nvidia made this naming change, now the names make sense, at least more so than GTX2x0 and 9800 cards.

 

[error8]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
You could just as easlily call the 4890 a rebadge of the 4870.

Who cares.

4890 has more transistors on the GPU, it has higher memory and core clocks then 4870, making it some 8-10% faster. Does that look like a rebadge to you?

Using your lack of logic, we can all say that gtx 275 is a rebadge of the 285.

 

[postmortemIA]

Are there better things in life to do than to justify nvidia's shameless rebadging? We're essentially buying today 8xxx series with higher clocks, minor optimizations and different memory configurations. 8800 cards were terrific though.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: error8

Originally posted by: Wreckage
You could just as easlily call the 4890 a rebadge of the 4870.

Who cares.

4890 has more transistors on the GPU, it has higher memory and core clocks then 4870, making it some 8-10% faster. Does that look like a rebadge to you?

Using your lack of logic, we can all say that gtx 275 is a rebadge of the 285.

Well, I'm not getting into the rebadge argument, as that is endless for both sides. But there have been changes from card to card even though they're all G92 based.

8800GT/GTS to 9800 series = Hybrid Technology and Tri SLI on GTX/+

9800 series to GTS250 = PCB rework and memory configuration.

Whether or not they named them as they did, or named them:

8800GTS > 8900GTS > 8950GTS is neither here nor there. Call it what you wish, but there are differences, no matter how subtle or large.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: error8

Originally posted by: Wreckage
You could just as easlily call the 4890 a rebadge of the 4870.

Who cares.

4890 has more transistors on the GPU, it has higher memory and core clocks then 4870, making it some 8-10% faster. Does that look like a rebadge to you?

Using your lack of logic, we can all say that gtx 275 is a rebadge of the 285.

Well, I'm not getting into the rebadge argument, as that is endless for both sides. But there have been changes from card to card even though they're all G92 based.

8800GT/GTS to 9800 series = Hybrid Technology and Tri SLI on GTX/+

9800 series to GTS250 = PCB rework and memory configuration.

Whether or not they named them as they did, or named them:

8800GTS > 8900GTS > 8950GTS is neither here nor there. Call it what you wish, but there are differences, no matter how subtle or large.

You DID get into it

AND

Using your lack of logic, we can all say that gtx 275 is a rebadge of the 285.

that is ridiculous - they are the same series - you CAN say GTX 275 is a rebadge of GTX 260 - using that logic that 4890 is a rebadged 4870

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: error8

Originally posted by: Wreckage
You could just as easlily call the 4890 a rebadge of the 4870.

Who cares.

4890 has more transistors on the GPU, it has higher memory and core clocks then 4870, making it some 8-10% faster. Does that look like a rebadge to you?

Using your lack of logic, we can all say that gtx 275 is a rebadge of the 285.

Well, I'm not getting into the rebadge argument, as that is endless for both sides. But there have been changes from card to card even though they're all G92 based.

8800GT/GTS to 9800 series = Hybrid Technology and Tri SLI on GTX/+

9800 series to GTS250 = PCB rework and memory configuration.

Whether or not they named them as they did, or named them:

8800GTS > 8900GTS > 8950GTS is neither here nor there. Call it what you wish, but there are differences, no matter how subtle or large.

You DID get into it

No, I really didn't. Just touched the surface. It's been done to death really and doesn't much matter.

 

[apoppin]

touched the surface?
:Q

ewww!