250GTS

[dguy6789]

A rebadge is a card with a changed name but identical performance. Same gpu, same memory, same clocks for both. Rearranging the pcb is nice and all, but it's still the same card. The 4870 and 4890 and the other GTX cards all have different clocks and performance. Therefore they are different cards. The GTS 250 is as much a new card over the 9800GTX+ as the Radeon 9200 is over the Radeon 9000 because it has AGP 8x support instead of just 4x.

That said, rebadging a card isn't necessarily a bad thing and in this case it makes a whole lot of sense. I don't get why people would argue in either direction about it so intently even though it doesn't matter. People still buy the 9800 cards. It makes more sense to name it GTS 250. If you compare GTX 295, 285, 280, 275, 260, you can tell which is better than the other by just the name. Throwing a 9800 into the mix can make things confusing for an unlearned customer. Changing it to GTS 250 makes everything make sense.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: dguy6789
The 4870 and 4890 and the other GTX cards all have different clocks and performance. Therefore they are different cards.

So if I overclock my card it will become a different card?

I would say the 4890 is a rebadged 4870.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: dguy6789
The 4870 and 4890 and the other GTX cards all have different clocks and performance. Therefore they are different cards.

So if I overclock my card it will become a different card?

I would say the 4890 is a rebadged 4870.

it was a revised core that allows for higher clocks so theres nothing wrong or misleading about calling it a 4890 since it is faster than a 4870.

 

[SSChevy2001]

Originally posted by: toyota

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: dguy6789
The 4870 and 4890 and the other GTX cards all have different clocks and performance. Therefore they are different cards.

So if I overclock my card it will become a different card?

I would say the 4890 is a rebadged 4870.

it was a revised core that allows for higher clocks so theres nothing wrong or misleading about calling it a 4890 since it is faster than a 4870.

The 4890 also supported burst memory reads, which is not supported by the 4870.
http://www.dvhardware.net/article34354.html

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: dguy6789
A rebadge is a card with a changed name but identical performance. Same gpu, same memory, same clocks for both. Rearranging the pcb is nice and all, but it's still the same card. The 4870 and 4890 and the other GTX cards all have different clocks and performance. Therefore they are different cards. The GTS 250 is as much a new card over the 9800GTX+ as the Radeon 9200 is over the Radeon 9000 because it has AGP 8x support instead of just 4x.

That said, rebadging a card isn't necessarily a bad thing and in this case it makes a whole lot of sense. I don't get why people would argue in either direction about it so intently even though it doesn't matter. People still buy the 9800 cards. It makes more sense to name it GTS 250. If you compare GTX 295, 285, 280, 275, 260, you can tell which is better than the other by just the name. Throwing a 9800 into the mix can make things confusing for an unlearned customer. Changing it to GTS 250 makes everything make sense.

Bold 1: If the PCB is re-arranged, how is it the same PCB? (card)?

Bold 2: Of course you must get it, because you just argued it in your first paragraph and are convinced to think one way over the other, and others will differ.

 

[dguy6789]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: dguy6789
The 4870 and 4890 and the other GTX cards all have different clocks and performance. Therefore they are different cards.

So if I overclock my card it will become a different card?

I would say the 4890 is a rebadged 4870.

Modifying your card is irrelevant to the discussion. If joe six pack uses an fps counter or a benchmark, a 4870 and a 4890 will score differently. A GTS 250 and a 9800GTX+ will be identical.

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: dguy6789
A rebadge is a card with a changed name but identical performance. Same gpu, same memory, same clocks for both. Rearranging the pcb is nice and all, but it's still the same card. The 4870 and 4890 and the other GTX cards all have different clocks and performance. Therefore they are different cards. The GTS 250 is as much a new card over the 9800GTX+ as the Radeon 9200 is over the Radeon 9000 because it has AGP 8x support instead of just 4x.

That said, rebadging a card isn't necessarily a bad thing and in this case it makes a whole lot of sense. I don't get why people would argue in either direction about it so intently even though it doesn't matter. People still buy the 9800 cards. It makes more sense to name it GTS 250. If you compare GTX 295, 285, 280, 275, 260, you can tell which is better than the other by just the name. Throwing a 9800 into the mix can make things confusing for an unlearned customer. Changing it to GTS 250 makes everything make sense.

Bold 1: If the PCB is re-arranged, how is it the same PCB? (card)?

Bold 2: Of course you must get it, because you just argued it in your first paragraph and are convinced to think one way over the other, and others will differ.

When I say same card, I mean same end result. I use the term card as shorthand for the entire thing(gpu, performance, and all), not just the pcb. Someone who runs benchmarks or plays games on a GTS 250 and a 9800GTX+ will get absolutely 100% exactly the same numbers. It's the same card.

I consider one side of the argument to be true.(I agree that the card is a 9800GTX+ with the name changed) What I don't get is why the argument happens. Why do some people feel a need to "attack" nVidia by calling the card a rebadge, and why do some people feel the need to "defend" nVidia, as if rebadge is some kind of insult. It being a rebadge is NOT a bad thing. I don't get why people bring it up in the first place. To be more accurate, there is no rational reason, the reason people argue over it is idle fanboyism.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: dguy6789

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: dguy6789
The 4870 and 4890 and the other GTX cards all have different clocks and performance. Therefore they are different cards.

So if I overclock my card it will become a different card?

I would say the 4890 is a rebadged 4870.

Modifying your card is irrelevant to the discussion. If joe six pack uses an fps counter or a benchmark, a 4870 and a 4890 will score differently. A GTS 250 and a 9800GTX+ will be identical.

Originally posted by: Keysplayr

Originally posted by: dguy6789
A rebadge is a card with a changed name but identical performance. Same gpu, same memory, same clocks for both. Rearranging the pcb is nice and all, but it's still the same card. The 4870 and 4890 and the other GTX cards all have different clocks and performance. Therefore they are different cards. The GTS 250 is as much a new card over the 9800GTX+ as the Radeon 9200 is over the Radeon 9000 because it has AGP 8x support instead of just 4x.

That said, rebadging a card isn't necessarily a bad thing and in this case it makes a whole lot of sense. I don't get why people would argue in either direction about it so intently even though it doesn't matter. People still buy the 9800 cards. It makes more sense to name it GTS 250. If you compare GTX 295, 285, 280, 275, 260, you can tell which is better than the other by just the name. Throwing a 9800 into the mix can make things confusing for an unlearned customer. Changing it to GTS 250 makes everything make sense.

Bold 1: If the PCB is re-arranged, how is it the same PCB? (card)?

Bold 2: Of course you must get it, because you just argued it in your first paragraph and are convinced to think one way over the other, and others will differ.

When I say same card, I mean same end result. I use the term card as shorthand for the entire thing(gpu, performance, and all), not just the pcb. Someone who runs benchmarks or plays games on a GTS 250 and a 9800GTX+ will get absolutely 100% exactly the same numbers. It's the same card.

I consider one side of the argument to be true.(I agree that the card is a 9800GTX+ with the name changed) What I don't get is why the argument happens. Why do some people feel a need to "attack" nVidia by calling the card a rebadge, and why do some people feel the need to "defend" nVidia, as if rebadge is some kind of insult. It being a rebadge is NOT a bad thing. I don't get why people bring it up in the first place. To be more accurate, there is no rational reason, the reason people argue over it is idle fanboyism.

Probably because it is intended and therefore perceived to be an insult? Maybe it's in the "way" things are said? Actually, I know that's what it is. Why else would battles ensue?

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: dguy6789
The 4870 and 4890 and the other GTX cards all have different clocks and performance. Therefore they are different cards.

So if I overclock my card it will become a different card?

I would say the 4890 is a rebadged 4870.

This is why these types of threads blow up into stupid flame wars that have 100 replies. Wreckage, in NO WAY is the 4870 the same card as the 4890. The GPU is different. The clocks are different. Do you understand? You cannot swap a 4890 GPU into a 4870 PCB or vice versa. The GTS250 and 9800GTX+ are identical GPU's with identical performance. The GTS250 PCB has some changes where they appear to use some lower end parts because the card is no longer a $300 card.

Please stop trolling in threads like these. The GTS250 is a 9800GTX+ that uses a few less watts, with identical performance and identical GPU's.. The 4870 and 4890 are different GPU's, end of story. The are not a rebadge, though they are obviously very closey related. The 4890 is like what the 9800GTX+ is to the regular 9800GTX. Please stop trolling with these ridiculous comments.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: dguy6789


Modifying your card is irrelevant to the discussion. If joe six pack uses an fps counter or a benchmark, a 4870 and a 4890 will score differently. A GTS 250 and a 9800GTX+ will be identical.

If "joe six pack" uses fps counter on a standard card and a "factory overclocked" card they will also score differently.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Why the hell do all you guys just argue? This forum is becoming more and more worthless as the days go by. Share your opinion and move on people... God, ever think how much time you sit here bitching on the forums about stupid stuff? Make your damn point and move on.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
Why the hell do all you guys just argue? This forum is becoming more and more worthless as the days go by. Share your opinion and move on people... God, ever think how much time you sit here bitching on the forums about stupid stuff? Make your damn point and move on.

Do you really want to know why?
- or did you just want to put that out there ? .. because

i have a GTS250-512MB by Galaxy that i am going to test in 15 benchmarks
- i already tested a 9800GT-512MB by Palit in those same 15 benchmarks [at stock] in the same system with the same [185.85] drivers at 16x10 and 14x9 [maxed out; 4xAA+16xAF]

Do you want to see them?
- or are we sure they going to be identical?

 

[Forumpanda]

I agree I went from avid lurker to disinterested bystander after a few weeks of nothing but pointless bickering by the same group of people.
What really gets to me is how most of the posts doesn¨'t even have anything to say, but are merely made to point out that person A disagrees with person b for no other reason than that is his opinion or belief.
Also, those same people will ignore any evidence that they are wrong, ignore any posts they cannot retort with a 1 liner, and thus we get page after page of pretty much the same argument.

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: dguy6789


Modifying your card is irrelevant to the discussion. If joe six pack uses an fps counter or a benchmark, a 4870 and a 4890 will score differently. A GTS 250 and a 9800GTX+ will be identical.

If "joe six pack" uses fps counter on a standard card and a "factory overclocked" card they will also score differently.

A standard 9800GTX+ and a standard GTS 250 1GB will score the same.

An overclocked 9800GTX+ and an overclocked GTS 250 1GB will also score the same.

A standard HD 4870 can't score the same as a stock HD 4890

An overclocked HD 4870 can't score the same as an overclocked HD 4890

GTS 250 is a rebadge of the 9800GTX+ which is a rebadge done with a smaller manufacturing process than the 9800GTX which is a rebadge of the 8800GTS 512.

All those G92 based SKU's share the same GPU, with same transistor count, same die size, no modifications are done except in the PCB level on the GTS 250.

An HD 4890 has more transistors, has more than 1000 hand tweaked data paths inside and has a ring around the GPU's for better overclockability and cleaner power distribution. It's not even pin compatible with the RV770.

Make sense to rename the old GPU to GTS 250, after all, the G92 is a gold mine and is the only card that is giving good profits to nVidia as it's selling well.

(As stated on the Steam survey), the measly 4% of share in the steam survey that belongs to the GTX series pales in comparison with the 10% of the HD4xxx series. If I were nVidia, I would update the G92 again to make it compatible with DX11 and release a GTS 350 to improve the profits lolll

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: dguy6789
The 4870 and 4890 and the other GTX cards all have different clocks and performance. Therefore they are different cards.

So if I overclock my card it will become a different card?

I would say the 4890 is a rebadged 4870.

This is why these types of threads blow up into stupid flame wars that have 100 replies. Wreckage, in NO WAY is the 4870 the same card as the 4890. The GPU is different. The clocks are different. Do you understand? You cannot swap a 4890 GPU into a 4870 PCB or vice versa. The GTS250 and 9800GTX+ are identical GPU's with identical performance. The GTS250 PCB has some changes where they appear to use some lower end parts because the card is no longer a $300 card.

Please stop trolling in threads like these. The GTS250 is a 9800GTX+ that uses a few less watts, with identical performance and identical GPU's.. The 4870 and 4890 are different GPU's, end of story. The are not a rebadge, though they are obviously very closey related. The 4890 is like what the 9800GTX+ is to the regular 9800GTX. Please stop trolling with these ridiculous comments.

I disagree with this. 4890 and 4870 has in common with 8800gts and 9800gtx. Same chip just clocked faster and die shrink in there somewhere.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: evolucion8

A standard 9800GTX+ and a standard GTS 250 1GB will score the same.

A standard 9800GTX+ is longer than a standard GTS250 1GB
A standard 9800GTX+ uses more power than GTS250 1GB
A standard 9800GTX+ has more power plugs than GTS250 1GB
A standard 9800GTX+ has less memory than GTS250 1GB

I think it was a good tweak to an already successful design. Not sure why that bothers you so much.

GTS 250 is a rebadge of the 9800GTX+ which is a rebadge done with a smaller manufacturing process than the 9800GTX which is a rebadge of the 8800GTS 512.

A 4890 is a rebadge of a 4870 which is a rebadge of a 4850. :roll:

All those G92 based SKU's share the same GPU, with same transistor count, same die size, no modifications are done except in the PCB level on the GTS 250.

Wrong again. The GTX+ was a die shrink.

Make sense to rename the old GPU to GTS 250, after all, the G92 is a gold mine and is the only card that is giving good profits to nVidia as it's selling well.

(As stated on the Steam survey), the measly 4% of share in the steam survey that belongs to the GTX series pales in comparison with the 10% of the HD4xxx series. If I were nVidia, I would update the G92 again to make it compatible with DX11 and release a GTS 350 to improve the profits lolll

AMD lost market share last quarter and is down below 1/3 of the market. The 4xxx series is basically a failure.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: evolucion8

A standard 9800GTX+ and a standard GTS 250 1GB will score the same.

A standard 9800GTX+ is longer than a standard GTS250 1GB
A standard 9800GTX+ uses more power than GTS250 1GB
A standard 9800GTX+ has more power plugs than GTS250 1GB
A standard 9800GTX+ has less memory than GTS250 1GB

I think it was a good tweak to an already successful design. Not sure why that bothers you so much.

GTS 250 is a rebadge of the 9800GTX+ which is a rebadge done with a smaller manufacturing process than the 9800GTX which is a rebadge of the 8800GTS 512.

A 4890 is a rebadge of a 4870 which is a rebadge of a 4850. :roll:

All those G92 based SKU's share the same GPU, with same transistor count, same die size, no modifications are done except in the PCB level on the GTS 250.

Wrong again. The GTX+ was a die shrink.

Make sense to rename the old GPU to GTS 250, after all, the G92 is a gold mine and is the only card that is giving good profits to nVidia as it's selling well.

(As stated on the Steam survey), the measly 4% of share in the steam survey that belongs to the GTX series pales in comparison with the 10% of the HD4xxx series. If I were nVidia, I would update the G92 again to make it compatible with DX11 and release a GTS 350 to improve the profits lolll

AMD lost market share last quarter and is down below 1/3 of the market. The 4xxx series is basically a failure.

well I hope you know there are GTS250 512mb cards too.

also you might as well call all the GTX200 cards rebadges too since they are all the same core with features disabled.

 

[dguy6789]

This thread needs to be locked.

 

[MrK6]

Originally posted by: WreckageAMD lost market share last quarter and is down below 1/3 of the market. The 4xxx series is basically a failure.

The same 4000 series that took tremendous marketshare away from NVIDIA at this time last year? How did you arrive at that conclusion? :Q

 

[error8]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

AMD lost market share last quarter and is down below 1/3 of the market. The 4xxx series is basically a failure.

Do you even read your posts after you write them? This has no meaning whatsoever. 4XXX series have been one of the most successful and best selling generation of ATi cards.

 

[error8]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
Why the hell do all you guys just argue? This forum is becoming more and more worthless as the days go by. Share your opinion and move on people... God, ever think how much time you sit here bitching on the forums about stupid stuff? Make your damn point and move on.

This thread as you made it, was inclined to become a fighting/bitching thread from the beginning. Oh, come on, I'm sure you knew that when you started it.

 

[footballrunner800]

Originally posted by: error8

Originally posted by: Wreckage

AMD lost market share last quarter and is down below 1/3 of the market. The 4xxx series is basically a failure.

Do you even read your posts after you write them? This has no meaning whatsoever. 4XXX series have been one of the most successful and best selling generation of ATi cards.

Wow wreckage I might just switch to nvidia with all of your informative comments :roll: What makes these cards rebadged is that you could take a batch of 9800gtx+ that where lying around and just put a gts250 sticker on it. Now if they would have made it a requirement to have the shorter PCB and 1 pci-e power then it would be a different story.

 

[dguy6789]

I'll humor us all some more.

9800GTX+ vs GTS 250

Different Name: Check
Different GPU Clock: ?
Different Memory Clock: ?
Different Shader Clock: ?
Different Memory Bandwidth: ?
Different Memory Bit Width: ?
Different Flops: ?
Different Pixel Fillrate: ?
Different Texture Fillrate: ?
Different Power Consumption: Check
Different Benchmark Performance: ?
Different Game Performance: ?

HD 4870 vs HD 4890

Different Name: Check
Different GPU Clock: Check
Different Memory Clock: Check
Different Shader Clock: n/a (Or if you wanted to get picky, check because the RV770 shader clock is the same as the GPU clock)
Different Memory Bandwidth: Check
Different Memory Bit Width: ?
Different Flops: Check
Different Pixel Fillrate: Check
Different Texture Fillrate: Check
Different Power Consumption: Check
Different Benchmark Performance: Check
Different Game Performance: Check

And for my last magic trick, I give you these two links: Link 1 Link 2

 

[toyota]

hey the bit width is the same for HD 4870 vs HD 4890

yeah that is literally a rebadged 9800gtx+ 512mb in that link. lol

 

[dguy6789]

I was a bit too quick with the typing XD

Although, the comparison between the two says that the 4870 is an 8x32 configuration and the 4890 is a 4x64 configuration.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: dguy6789
I'll humor us all some more.

9800GTX+ vs GTS 250

Different Name: Check
Different GPU Clock: ?
Different Memory Clock: ?
Different Shader Clock: ?
Different Memory Bandwidth: ?
Different Memory Bit Width: ?
Different Flops: ?
Different Pixel Fillrate: ?
Different Texture Fillrate: ?
Different Power Consumption: Check
Different Benchmark Performance: ?
Different Game Performance: ?

HD 4870 vs HD 4890

Different Name: Check
Different GPU Clock: Check
Different Memory Clock: Check
Different Shader Clock: n/a (Or if you wanted to get picky, check because the RV770 shader clock is the same as the GPU clock)
Different Memory Bandwidth: Check
Different Memory Bit Width: ?
Different Flops: Check
Different Pixel Fillrate: Check
Different Texture Fillrate: Check
Different Power Consumption: Check
Different Benchmark Performance: Check
Different Game Performance: Check

And for my last magic trick, I give you these two links: Link 1 Link 2

By your definition these pre-overclocked cards are different chips because it uses higher clocks. :roll: