250lb Body Builder Vs. 150lb Jiu Jitsu Black Belt. Who your money on?

[Reasonable Doubt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjFp1R5klo4

 

[z1ggy]

Saw this on youtube if it's the video I'm thinking of. This is a no brainer. 1 v 1 fight in closed environment with one guy having a black belt in BJJ and the other is a totally untrained meat head?

Uh yeah I'd probably bet my house and all my savings on the little guy.

 

[Eug]

This actually happened to my friend's dad. He was a big and slow competitive weightlifter who was constantly getting challenged to a fight by a black belt in karate by a guy probably 100 lbs less. Finally after several days of taunts, he gave in.

The weightlifter dad won the fight after just one serious body slam... but only after getting kicked and punched a bazillion times.

 

[LevelSea]

My money is on the person who has a gun.

 

[Juddog]

Obviously the well trained fighter wins, no brainer.

 

[Eug]

Well, like I said, in the case I mentioned, a big and slow weightlifter beat the karate expert. It took one giant hit, and the karate expert was out cold. The difference here though it was was a true scrap. Not quite a street fight as it was inside, but it wasn't a soft mat either.

 

[z1ggy]

Well, like I said, in the case I mentioned, a big and slow weightlifter beat the karate expert. It took one giant hit, and the karate expert was out cold. The difference here though it was was a true scrap. Not quite a street fight as it was inside, but it wasn't a soft mat either.

People actually use that to fight? The hell do they do if they hit the ground or their opponent gets within arms reach?

Guess I need to read up on my karate, but I pretty much just associate it with a class of 50 kids going "hiiiiiiiii ya!!!" and kicking boards.

I'm assuming though for adults, it's a bit more legit with sparring, etc?

 

[spacejamz]

maybe the steroids have improved since 1994? we need a re-match to confirm...LOL

 

[Sulaco]

Well, like I said, in the case I mentioned, a big and slow weightlifter beat the karate expert. It took one giant hit, and the karate expert was out cold. The difference here though it was was a true scrap. Not quite a street fight as it was inside, but it wasn't a soft mat either.

Yeeeeah, well assuming that story played out anything like that, I'm going to assume that if the "Karate expert" was "taunting" the weightlifter guy, chances are he was not much of an "expert" at all, and certainly not the kind of individual who takes the art or discipline very seriously. Hence, he likely was no real "expert".

Anyone trained in a true martial art at anything like an "expert" level is not going to go around taunting people and picking fights. That goes counter to pretty much every core tenet of most martial arts.

 

[Eug]

Yeeeeah, well assuming that story played out anything like that, I'm going to assume that if the "Karate expert" was "taunting" the weightlifter guy, chances are he was not much of an "expert" at all, and certainly not the kind of individual who takes the art or discipline very seriously. Hence, he likely was no real "expert".

Anyone trained in a true martial art at anything like an "expert" level is not going to go around taunting people and picking fights. That goes counter to pretty much every core tenet of most martial arts.

Seriously? Do you actually believe that? Low-level black belts are extremely common, and yes a fair number of them are complete assholes. If you actually believe that all of these guys actually follow that philosophy, then you probably have been watching too many cheesy martial arts movies.

Next you're going to tell me that all Buddhists are all Zen and shit.

 

[sourceninja]

...

 

[rh71]

Any one of the 4 punches from the big guy at 4:55min could've knocked him out cold. He simply missed 3, not because the jiu jitsu guy dodged them (the last block was nice). I have no doubts that martial arts is superior in most cases though.

 

[manimal]

Pedro Sauer is the man, guy used to teach in a garage with Royler and Rickson in the early 90s in LA. Early BJJ scene guys like Pedro, the Machado brothers and the Gracies really made a splash in the early years.


I recommend you guys go over to the Rum soaked fist and watch some of those vids. Those guys know their shit and they find the craziest videos.

Look up all those early vids of Rickson fighting. That guy is the best ever. In his prime he destroyed EVERYONE in the Vale Tudo days.

 

[manimal]

Any one of the 4 punches from the big guy at 4:55min could've knocked him out cold. He simply missed 3, not because the jiu jitsu guy dodged them (the last block was nice). I have no doubts that martial arts is superior in most cases though.

the problem with that sort of build is the muscle dork has no flexibility and he lost all his explosiveness. If he had trained for explosiveness his body would look vastly different.


In those early years nobody knew what a sweep was and what a triangle choke or a omaplata and even trained guys in other disciplines had zero defence when they got on the ground.

After a decade when the other disciplines cross trained nobody takes 100 lb differences fights because they would get destroyed. Early on the gracies were world beaters now they have been in the light long enough that their techniques are not surpirsing anyone.


I stopped training with the gracies because they kept the high level shit and even some basic shit secret and I would go and learn something on my own and I got yelled at for passing the guard of a teacher when I was three belts below. Rorion didnt do that shit but he got pressusered into doing it to. Only in the last few years have they stopped doing that shit becuase you can learn that crap on the internet now.

They used to only teach two passes from open guard. I mean wtf two?

 

[Eug]

This is my favorite part of judo and bjj, getting new meatheads in the gym. That first 6 months you just blow their mind by using them as playthings.

I see something similar at the climbing gyms. The big lineman type will come in with his petite but athletic girlfriend.

The person that does better in the first few sessions is often the girl. Very humbling for the big strapping lad.

Of course if they develop even an ounce of skill that size and strength advantage becomes near impossible to overcome.

This is an important point. People almost start to believe that martial arts are somehow magical. Obviously, they aren't.

BTW, I went from competitive high school wrestling to (recreational) judo in university. In the first couple of months I was lost against the more experienced guys, because I had no idea what to do with the opponents' judo gi, and no idea how to protect against moves using my judo gi. (The clothing is off limits in wrestling.) However, after that first couple of months, my training in wrestling allowed me to fairly consistently beat the blue belts, and put me at closer to their brown belt. I had a white belt at the time. I didn't stand a chance against the black belts though, partially because they simply were better than me, but also because the black belts were quite a bit heavier than me. (In Canada it goes white, yellow, green, blue, brown, black. There is no purple.)

 

[wabbitslayer]

The little guy will probably win, unless he starts monologuing once he gets the big man down, whereupon the big man will trip up the little man, grab him by the skull and thumb-gouge his eyes out before crushing the skull between his bare hands.


At least, that's how I've seen these things go down

 

[Eug]

The mountain. It is huge.

 

[Jeeebus]

Probably helps that the martial arts guy was also taller and had a better reach than the weight lifter. It was easier to keep him at distance and bait him into making unwise attacks. Going up against someone taller and with more reach is a whole different set of difficulties.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I imagine if you had 100 fights like this they could all end different ways. A couple really good hits by a bodybuilder could end the martial arts guy, but getting those hits in may be a challenge.

 

[Mai72]

I'd like to see that martial arts guy go fight someone who muay thai.

 

[dr150]

You add skills and flexibility to a meathead, they'd be dangerous.

Meatheads obviously have the discipline to build muscle so it'd be a mistake to think that they couldn't apply that discipline to learning how to fight.

Back in the day, Jet Li was asked if he could take on these overbuilt UFC fighters. Li said that without question he'd get his ass kicked as their power/skill to match would be too much to overcome. He was thoroughly convinced of this.

 

[Eug]

I imagine if you had 100 fights like this they could all end different ways. A couple really good hits by a bodybuilder could end the martial arts guy, but getting those hits in may be a challenge.

Yeah, the friend's dad I mentioned won the fight, but was bruised from head to toe, because it took him quite a while to land that one blow to FINISH HIM. Meanwhile the karate dude was landing numerous quick punches and kicks.

BTW, the martials arts guy in said fight was an asshole, but my friend's dad wasn't exactly a fuzzy kitten either. He was a growth hormone enhanced competitive weight lifter. Not the cut and uber musclar body mass kind of guy you find in gyms, but heavy set.

He did NOT look like this:

He looked more like this:

My friend says that after the fight, even though they still hated each other, the two had a new found respect for each other. I guess the little guy learned that a slow and stocky guy can still destroy you if you make any mistake, and the big guy learned that even a little guy can pound the shit out of you if you aren't fast enough to dodge all the hits.

People actually use that to fight? The hell do they do if they hit the ground or their opponent gets within arms reach?

Guess I need to read up on my karate, but I pretty much just associate it with a class of 50 kids going "hiiiiiiiii ya!!!" and kicking boards.

I'm assuming though for adults, it's a bit more legit with sparring, etc?

Yeah. I'm no expert but if you watch the tournaments, they kind of remind me of boxing matches, except with kicking.

Also, some of the guys end up crosstraining too.

 

[bradley]

Instead of a bulky bodybuilder who endurance trains, a better match partner would be a conditioned someone able to recruit a ton of fast twitch fibers with not only power but speed and agility. The amount of thrust and snapping force of the connective tissue surrounding that lean muscle tissue would literally be frightening.

 

[1sikbITCH]

Smart money was always on the Gracies. They've been tying steroid freaks in knots for decades.

 

[1sikbITCH]

So I looked it up and Royce Gracie also used steroids. Nevermind!