27 game shoot out: RX 480 vs. 580 vs. GTX 1060 [tpu]

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Bacon1

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2016
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Doom, COD, Warhammer DOW 3, BF1 are all AMD sponsored titles, what are you talking about? http://www.amd.com/en-us/markets/game/featured

I didn't count Doom because they aren't AMD sponored and even went on stage with Nvidia to show off Vulkan: http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/ar...-gtx-1080-run-doom-at-up-200-fps-using-vulkan AMD might have partnered up with them post release for bundling with cards, but it wasn't AMD sponsored.

Call of Duty IW and Warhammer Dawn of War aren't. I said that BF1 was. Here is COD IW Startup videos - no mention of AMD. WHDOW3 has no mention of AMD either

So still 7/9 slower titles for Gameworks, 4/11 faster titles AMD sponsors
 
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cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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yeah a Rx 580 8 GB at USD 230 is probably the card to beat for price/perf.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131714

The widespread availability of Freesync monitors and at cheaper price points vs Gsync is a key factor in making the Rx 580 a damn attractive GPU at USD 230.

That is a good point you are making.

However, if I was using a Pre-built computer* with something like a Core i5 3470 CPU I would strongly consider GTX 1060 6GB over the RX 580 8GB due to Nvidia's better DX11 driver. (Nvidia is reported to stutter less with lower end CPUs because of the multi-threaded driver)

Also if my pre-built only had a 92mm exhaust fan I also would probably want the GTX 1060 6GB because its lower TDP (120W vs. 185W) would put less stress my cooling system. (though RX 580 8GB with blower fan might do well against a GTX 1060 6B with an open cooler for such a PC)

*with upgraded ATX power supply.
 
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Bacon1

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2016
3,430
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However, if I was using a Pre-built computer* with something like a Core i5 3470 CPU I might go with the GTX 1060 6GB over the RX 580 8GB due to Nvidia's better DX11 driver. (Nvidia is reported to stutter less with lower end CPUs because of this)

Source?

https://youtu.be/pjZ3MmxP0Fg

They found that the difference between the two cards usually went down (1060 was closer to 480 / lost higher %) as the CPU got worse.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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Source?

https://youtu.be/pjZ3MmxP0Fg

They found that the difference between the two cards usually went down (1060 was closer to 480 / lost higher %) as the CPU got worse.

What was happening in some titles was CPU bottleneck. Examples Here and here.

But I am referring to stutter, not frame rates.

Here is a quote from Digital Foundry.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-nvidia-geforce-gtx-950-review

Now, the problem with benchmarking cards aimed at the budget market is that virtually all tests are carried out using a Core i7 processor - and that makes sense as you are eliminating CPU as a bottleneck and highlighting hardware performance. On top of that, there's usually little difference between i5 and i7 results anyway when you are more frequently limited by GPU performance. However, on a card aimed at the budget segment, we are far more likely to see the GPU paired with a less capable processor - meaning that driver overhead becomes much more important.

Historically, AMD has had issues here. Watch the video above, and we'll see more stutter on several titles on AMD than we do on Nvidia (The Witcher 3 a particular case in point). So what happens when we re-bench the R7 370 and the GTX 950 on a Core i3? Stutter increases on AMD, but Nvidia is clearly impacted too. It's not entirely uniform across every game though - Crysis 3 hammers CPU, yet the R7 370 holds onto its performance just as well as the GTX 950. Also note the frame-time dips seen in Assassin's Creed Unity whether you are running on an i3 or an i7 - this isn't down to driver overhead, but rather the 2GB VRAM limit on both cards. But again note that the latency spikes are more pronounced on the AMD side.

Visualising this kind of information in a bar chart or a table isn't easy - it's something we're working on behind the scenes, but we can tell you the lowest and average frame-rates on both Core i3 and i7 with both cards. Lowest frame-rate is almost as blunt a metric as the average, but it does demonstrate that Nvidia is ahead and holds more of its performance - but again, the videos and the frame-time graphs are much more illuminating in terms of the actual experience. Our takeaway here is that AMD's driver overhead is still higher than Nvidia's, but it looks like improvements made on the 300 series launch driver do produce more stability when slower cards are paired with the Core i3.
 

Bacon1

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2016
3,430
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Here is a video I found from Septemeber 2016 and it shows AMD DX11 driver having issues:

https://youtu.be/d6TDsx8Shks?t=270

Has the situation improved in 2017? I haven't been able to find a video or article.

He says that all cards have issues and that AMD has improved a lot with the newer driver (the old 16.9)

Here is a newer review from early 2017:

https://youtu.be/dichjs9HXTg

Its 470 vs 1060 6gb so clear why its ahead

Its a toss up for which games are better on the pentium though, the 470 is actually faster in a few which is very odd, and does poorly in others.

The ability to pair it with a freesync monitor though makes playing on a budget much better
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
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He says that all cards have issues and that AMD has improved a lot with the newer driver (the old 16.9)

In Rise of the Tomb Raider there was little difference between the old and new AMD drivers and look how long those frame times are compared to GTX 1060 and GTX 1070:

(Yellow and Red= AMD drivers)




Here is a newer review from early 2017:

https://youtu.be/dichjs9HXTg

Its 470 vs 1060 6gb so clear why its ahead

In Rise of the Tomb Raider the reviewer mentioned the performance was very stuttery with G4560 and RX 470. He didn't mention anything about the GTX 1060 6GB.

Also look at how much worse the minimum frame rate is with G4560 and RX470 (22 FPS) vs. G4560 and GTX 1060 (66 FPS):




Even the GTX 1050 Ti does better in minimum frame rate (31 FPS) when paired with G4560.
 
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Bacon1

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2016
3,430
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In Rise of the Tomb Raider there was little difference between the old and new AMD drivers and look how long those frame times are compared to GTX 1060 and GTX 1070:

(Yellow and Red= AMD drivers)






In Rise of the Tomb Raider the reviewer mentioned the performance was very stuttery with G4560 and RX 470. He didn't mention anything about the GTX 1060 6GB.

Also look at how much worse the minimum frame rate is with G4560 and RX470 (22 FPS) vs. G4560 and GTX 1060 (66 FPS):




Even the GTX 1050 Ti does better in minimum frame rate (31 FPS) when paired with G4560.

Yes in ROTTR a Gameworks title

Lets look at some of the others though like Total War Warhammer, where the 470 gets 41 minimum vs 36 minimum on the 1060 6GB @ 1440p and faster minimum AND avg @ 1080p with 50/58 vs 40/53!

Or F1 2016 where the 47 is 43/65 vs 36/55 on the 1060 6gb.

And again in Civ 6 37/49 vs 28/47 of the 1060 6gb.

That's a ~40% cheaper GPU pulling faster FPS with a weak CPU.
 

UglyDuckling

Senior member
May 6, 2015
390
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Well considering i run a 1000 watt PSU i don't think i had power efficiency in mind, but it's nice to have.

RX 580 has been great so far except crashing in Oblivion meaning i have to switch back to my old GTX 670 for that game to run.. otherwise.. great improvement, over 2x faster than my overclocked 670 in some games.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
221
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Lets look at some of the others though like Total War Warhammer, where the 470 gets 41 minimum vs 36 minimum on the 1060 6GB @ 1440p and faster minimum AND avg @ 1080p with 50/58 vs 40/53!

Or F1 2016 where the 47 is 43/65 vs 36/55 on the 1060 6gb.

And again in Civ 6 37/49 vs 28/47 of the 1060 6gb.

Total War Warhammer and CIV 6 are actually DX12 games.

F1 2016 is only DX11 game in that group of three.

In any event, this is still frame rate data...... not frame time data.

P.S. Interesting that the Hardware unboxed reviewer mentioned G4560 and RX470 stuttering in Rise of the Tomb Raider even though it is a DX12 game.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
221
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Well you quoted DX12 ROTTR as an issue so I figured you'd moved the goal posts.

Yep, my mistake as I saw ROTTR and stuttering and was thinking DX11 when Is saw that. (It was very late when I wrote that post)

In any event, I haven't been to find any tests on DX11 and stuttering for 2017.

Best I can find is that Sept 2016 Youtube video in which the conclusion was the following:

https://youtu.be/d6TDsx8Shks?t=618

(So AMD has made strides to reduce DX11 overhead but is still behind Nvidia)
 

tamz_msc

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2017
3,865
3,729
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Unless you are a game developer working closely with the driver team of NVIDIA or AMD and have the right tools, you are in no position to talk about driver overheads. The tech press has zero knowledge to comment on such things from just looking at results of benchmarks.
 
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