2900 XT lacks a UVD

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Matt2

Diamond Member
Jul 28, 2001
4,762
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Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
Read Dreddfunk's post, point is if this was posted by an AMD fan it would be with the purpose to actual INFORM people, but Wreckage? Give me a break, you know perfectly he just wants to make Ati fans mad

When was the last time he made a thread about Purevideo? Hmmm never? It isnt perfect you know

If ATI fans wouldnt attack Wreckage on sight, then this thread could have been informative to the consumer. He posted multiple confirmed sources so I still dont see the big deal.

The purevideo issue has been beaten to death on this forum already, so there is no need for Wreckage to post anything about Purevideo.

Also, for once, Nvidia wasn't the one who claimed there was a capability on their card when there isnt. Nvidia never claimed that 8800GTX had Purevideo HD while AMD clearly misrepresented their HD2900XT as having HD acceleration when it obviously does not.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
Originally posted by: Matt2
Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
Originally posted by: Matt2
Originally posted by: gunblade
First, this information is confirmed through AMD graphic spokeperson Dave.

This is an information that is legit and would help people to be more informed about their buying decision.

I see no point in attacking the messenger if he/she is not spreading FUD. People really need to be more objective in defending their favored company.

I would actually favor AMD if all things being equal since I hope they stay alive.
But this info certainly needed to be made known so people can be aware of it.

AMD or Nvidia, information(not FUD) needed to be passed to consumer and leave the judgement to the buyer.

I agree. This information is completely valid. The fact that people are attacking Wreckage and not addressing the real issue only shows their own bias.

I will address the issue when Wreckage makes a thread about a flaw in G80, because we all know the card isnt perfect

But we know thats not gonna happen is it? And I dont care about this UDV thing either way... If I am biased because of that, well... Go join the HardOCP forums, theres all the Nvidia love you need

You're not making sense.

So if an AMD fanboy had posted this instead of a Nvidia fanboy, the information provided would have been more valid?

Read Dreddfunk's post, point is if this was posted by an AMD fan it would be with the purpose to actual INFORM people, but Wreckage? Give me a break, you know perfectly he just wants to make Ati fans mad

When was the last time he made a thread about Purevideo? Hmmm never? It isnt perfect you know

You were INFORMED, were you not? You need to learn to ignore the "purpose" of a thread, and actually use your mind to get the content you need from it. Grey Matter, it's all the rage. Would you like us to rekindle the NUMEROUS pure video threads that have been discussed to no end in this forum? Would that make your pain go away? Oh....brother.....
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself

Read Dreddfunk's post, point is if this was posted by an AMD fan it would be with the purpose to actual INFORM people, but Wreckage? Give me a break, you know perfectly he just wants to make Ati fans mad

When was the last time he made a thread about Purevideo? Hmmm never? It isnt perfect you know

I guess using your logic, would an AMD fan post this?

Considering how many have decried my posting it, seems doubtful.

So many hypocritical posts against me, I wonder if they even taste the irony?

not a single hypocritical post about you among them

and ... sure .. i'd post it IF i saw it first
-but then maybe i am not an AMD fan

edit:

let me go FURTHER ... you haven't even scratched the surface of this juicy news
I believe I ought to take a moment to explain how we came to believe the Radeon HD 2900 XT had full HD video playback acceleration, an impression formed by many layers of talk from AMD, starting with the Radeon HD name. Let me share a slide with you from a presentation titled "ATI Radeon HD 2000 Series and the Ultimate HD Experience," given by AMD's David Cummings, Director of Mobile GPU Marketing. The slide looks like so:
[PICTURE]
You can, of course, read for yourself that it says "Avivo HD technology makes full spec HD DVD / Blu-Ray (HD Disc) playback accessible at all price points," but I just like repeating it. That gives one a certain idea, does it not? Now, let's have a look at another slide showing what Avivo HD brings to video decode acceleration:
[PICTURE]
The bit labeled "Avivo HD" shows GPU acceleration of bitstream processing and entropy decode, and makes clear it's distinct from the Radeon X1000's Avivo video processing, which lacks acceleration of those stages.

Now, look at any specs list for the Radeon HD 2900 XT?say, this one from AMD's website, and you will find listed among its specs "ATI Avivo? HD Video and Display Platform" and a bullet point under that saying "HD decode acceleration for H.264/AVC, VC-1, DivX and MPEG-2 video formats." At the end of the day, one gets the impression that this GPU has Avivo HD, with all that entails.

Of course, AMD has left itself some wiggle room in its technical statements. The specs list above isn't technically untrue?just imprecise. The dodge built into the Cummings presentation, with its talk of making HD video playback "accessible at all price points" seems to be that high-end CPUs can handle HD video playback without as much assistance from the GPU. But that's a paper thin excuse, in my view.

To make sure this wasn't simply a matter of me missing the boat?it has been known to happen, and I've got a few gray hairs promising more of the same in the future?I checked with a couple of other journalists who attended a separate Radeon HD press event the week after the one I attended. Both Marco Chiappetta from HotHardware and Ryan Shrout of PC Perspective came away from their meetings with AMD convinced the Radeon HD 2900 XT had full HD playback acceleration via UVD logic, as well. I was not alone in gathering this impression from AMD. To their credit, some reviewers did sort through the fog and identify the Radeon HD 2900 XT's lack of UVD, but they were swimming against the tide of statements from AMD itself.

Nor could any of us have uncovered this fact prior to the publication of our reviews via testing, because AMD hasn't yet delivered a driver that includes the support for the Radeon HD's "full" multimedia capabilities. They initially targeted May 9 for that driver's release. AMD now says the driver is due next week.

IF i were a nvidia fan [also] i would be making a big deal out of AMD's fantastic FUD spew [and "almost-lies"]

... so ... you "GO" Wreckage
 

ShadowOfMyself

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2006
4,227
2
0
Originally posted by: Zstream
I hope everyone knows the 8800GTS/GTX lacks UVD also.

According to 90% of the posters here that is irrelevant, because Nvidia didnt market them as so

I think I should quote keysplayer here

You need to learn to ignore the "purpose" of a thread, and actually use your mind to get the content you need from it

Well the content I get from it is the HD2900XT is still a superior card when it comes to video, have a nice day

Btw just as a disclaimer, since Ive been getting accused of fanboyism, well at the moment I dont prefer either company... But I do have a grudge agaisnt Nvidia for reasons I mentioned before, but how does that make me a fanboy?

I acknowledge Nvidia has the best card out currently, no ifs or buts (for gaming at least)... Im just trying to balance things here

Ever see me make a thread about something anti nvidia or pro ati? You didnt, because it never happened, I just cant stand fanboyism, which is all this thread is about, not informing people... And thus I came in trying to balance it, but I suddenly get accused of being an Ati fanboy... oh well, I just hope this forum doesnt become another HardOCP, where every sheep follows Kyle around like he has the word of God
 

Matt2

Diamond Member
Jul 28, 2001
4,762
0
0
Originally posted by: Zstream
I hope everyone knows the 8800GTS/GTX lacks UVD also.

That's not the point of the thread. Nvidia didnt tell say that G80 would have PureVideo HD.

AMD said that HD2900XT would have one, it doesnt.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
But I do have a grudge agaisnt Nvidia for reasons I mentioned before, but how does that make me a fanboy?


It doesn't. It's your suddenly out of nowhere snappish attitude against anyone who says something not so good about ATI. Maybe you don't realize it, but you have seemingly transformed over the last, say, 2 weeks? Listen, everyone stumbles now and then. ATI, Nvidia, Intel, AMD, AMD/ATI or whatever you call them today. There are just too many high strung individuals in here that take personal offense to things they have absolutely no business getting offended about. I mean, some of the things you said in this very thread were pretty "out there" and there was little other explaination for them except as a defense mechanism. For whatever reason.

ZStream also, in the last several weeks has been a little "you know what" with his childish comments like the one a few posts up. Defense mechanisms.

Anyway, sorry for getting on your case, I don't think I ever have before. But something snapped with ya. So break out the duct tape and get busy!!

At any rate, this UVD isn't anywhere near for everyone, and most will never miss it. Just as most do not miss Pure Video on NV40. Hey, there is always a 2600 or a 6600 respectively.

/peace.
 

ShadowOfMyself

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2006
4,227
2
0
Yeah, dont get me wrong, I dont think the HD2900XT is a work of art either lol its nothing special actually, and way too late, but its a very nice card for the price, and it bugs me that everyone is trying to find flaws to make it look worse... But then again, "Ati" still holds the best cards in the midrange (200-250$) so they should keep selling happily I hope, for AMDs sake

*sigh*

Still, if you want a card with "UVD" you either get a 2400 or 2600 series, since Nvidia doesnt have it either, thats the raw facts here

Ill just move along since I dont care
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: vaccarjm
ATI Fanbois are really on edge lol.

I take it that most of the ATI fans here are Canadian?

i might have been an "ATi fanboy"

but then ATi has been completely "assimilated" ... by a company i don't particularly care for
[because of AMD's persistent inability to deliver product while mangling the truth about it]

and nvidia didn't "falsely advertise" [or lead to believe by 'omission'] that their 8800 has something it doesn't have ... AMD lead everyone to believe that 2900xt has UVD ...

... and HD2900xt turns out to have STD instead
[--Stupidly Transmitted Disinformation]
 

fierydemise

Platinum Member
Apr 16, 2005
2,056
2
81
Although I wish AMD had been more clear in the marketing I don't see the lack of UVD as that big of a deal. First of all it still has lower CPU on HD video then the 8800 (here and here), I don't really care how it does it better is better. Secondly according to DT R600 has HD acceleration features which have can (and likely will) be enabled in future driver updates.

EDIT: Spelling
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
Yeah, dont get me wrong, I dont think the HD2900XT is a work of art either lol its nothing special actually, and way too late, but its a very nice card for the price, and it bugs me that everyone is trying to find flaws to make it look worse... But then again, "Ati" still holds the best cards in the midrange (200-250$) so they should keep selling happily I hope, for AMDs sake

*sigh*

Still, if you want a card with "UVD" you either get a 2400 or 2600 series, since Nvidia doesnt have it either, thats the raw facts here

Ill just move along since I dont care

You know what, who really cares how much CPU is being utilized when watching movies? Sure, there are some folks who multitask, but are they really enjoying the movie flitting back and forth to another app? Doubtful. Even if they are doing some folding in the background, the cpu should handle it just fine. Unless your CPU and rest of your rig is prehistoric, in which case, why fold on it?

Image quality on the other hand might be a factor, but to tell you the truth, I was perfectly happy watching DVD's on my 14" lappy 5 years ago, before any of this PV or AVIVO crap.
Overhyped, and underdone. It's not a need, but a want.
 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
And here I thought Wreckage looked pretty unbiased lately People never change lol

Who wants to help me find an obscure flaw in G80 and make a thread about it?

will address the issue when Wreckage makes a thread about a flaw in G80, because we all know the card isnt perfect

But we know thats not gonna happen is it? And I dont care about this UDV thing either way... If I am biased because of that, well... Go join the HardOCP forums, theres all the Nvidia love you need


ead Dreddfunk's post, point is if this was posted by an AMD fan it would be with the purpose to actual INFORM people, but Wreckage? Give me a break, you know perfectly he just wants to make Ati fans mad

When was the last time he made a thread about Purevideo? Hmmm never? It isnt perfect you know

Well the content I get from it is the HD2900XT is still a superior card when it comes to video, have a nice day

If the above does not paint you as a fanboy then you are just a garden variety troll. Which is much worse if you ask me.

You have been THE loudest complainer in this thread over a real issue that paints the brand you so clearly favor in a bad light. I did not write the articles so you can stop shooting the messenger and go to the sources.
 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Wreckage
Originally posted by: ShadowOfMyself
And here I thought Wreckage looked pretty unbiased lately People never change lol

Who wants to help me find an obscure flaw in G80 and make a thread about it?

will address the issue when Wreckage makes a thread about a flaw in G80, because we all know the card isnt perfect

But we know thats not gonna happen is it? And I dont care about this UDV thing either way... If I am biased because of that, well... Go join the HardOCP forums, theres all the Nvidia love you need


ead Dreddfunk's post, point is if this was posted by an AMD fan it would be with the purpose to actual INFORM people, but Wreckage? Give me a break, you know perfectly he just wants to make Ati fans mad

When was the last time he made a thread about Purevideo? Hmmm never? It isnt perfect you know

Well the content I get from it is the HD2900XT is still a superior card when it comes to video, have a nice day

If the above does not paint you as a fanboy then you are just a garden variety troll. Which is much worse if you ask me.

You have been THE loudest complainer in this thread over a real issue that paints the brand you so clearly favor in a bad light. I did not write the articles so you can stop shooting the messenger and go to the sources.
now you are starting to sound like me
:Q

the posters all *know* you, Wreckage

they know your "style" ... that you *love* to find fault in formerly ATi HW and to paint nvidia HW as far superior ... and that you also enjoy "rattling the cages" of the now frustrated AMD fans.

denying your obvious bias only solidifies the charges against you

but ... yeah, you are right ... AMD screwed up in leading us to "believe" that HD2900xt has a UVD ... of course it is better than x1900 ... we *will* see that ... but they could have been much more truthful

so could have nvidia been far more truthful in the past

but that is NOT the - current discussion ...

 

apoppin

Lifer
Mar 9, 2000
34,890
1
0
alienbabeltech.com
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39884
theInq "weighs in"
First of all, the driver that will enable us to do stable testing of single and dual HD2900XT cards is due out next week - we have tried to test apps under Vista and we were just gutted by the amount of "display driver has stopped responding" messages.

But sadly, the topic of this story is not the performance of Radeon HD 2900XT, rather its features.

Several well-known websites, as we reported, said that the HD2900XT features a Universal Video Decoder. What got things into seventh gear is the fact that several owners of HIS Radeon HD 2900XT smelt their opportunity for some serious dough - because a retail box from AMD's largest partners such as HIS and Sapphire state that Radeon HD 2900XT has UVD. For video-savvy users, UVD was hyped by AMD to heavens' high, so it is understandable that a circus was unavoidable.

it's a 3-ringer
 

olmer

Senior member
Dec 28, 2006
324
0
0
Is it worth buying say HIS 2900 (clearly says UVD on a box) and then claiming a sizable refund from them? I have never dealt with this company before. I can return the card back to the merchant anytime for a full refund anyway, so can at least play with it/heat the place up. Also Sapphire and GeCube mention UVD in their docs ? experienced appalling services from both so do not really want to try. Any other reasonable companies? Any AMD partners with good customer services at all?
 

nullpointerus

Golden Member
Apr 17, 2003
1,326
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0
HIS put a "Certified for Windows Vista" sticker on the box, but the only full version game (circa 2002) physically present on the DVDs does not run on Vista. You get to wait for UVD and Valve's Black Box and a good PCIe 2.0 power adapter. I've no experience with HIS support yet, but if HIS is like any other company I've dealt with, they'll just tell you to wait for newer drivers...after putting you through an entry level techie having you change your multimedia decoders and USB devices around because he really has no idea what UVD is.
 

mruffin75

Senior member
May 19, 2007
343
0
0
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: ToadkillerDog
I smell a class action lawsuit...

yeah they stink don't they ?

the HD2900xt owners get AMD coupons as "compensation" and the lawyers get millions of dollars

The only class action lawsuits I have received anything from was Netflix (where I got a coupon for a FREE month at a higher level than I was....but of course Netflix would keep billing me at that level if I didn't advise them I wanted to go back..)

Class action lawsuits are only ever good for the lawyers representing you...it gives the actual users nothing..

As for the HD2900XT... I have one (*still haven't been able to use it yet...waiting on a new PSU to arrive).. and I'll be happy to sit back and wait for the new drivers to implement HDDVD/Blu-ray playback via hardware..who knows...the playback from the 2900 might kill the playback from the 2400/2600 in terms of quality..

It's just been blown out of proportion.. Athlough AMD is really at fault here..I remember them saying that their drivers were great, they were just waiting on marketing to release the card... I guess being WHQL certified doesn't really mean much anymore these days..
 

Zstream

Diamond Member
Oct 24, 2005
3,395
277
136
Originally posted by: mruffin75
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: ToadkillerDog
I smell a class action lawsuit...

yeah they stink don't they ?

the HD2900xt owners get AMD coupons as "compensation" and the lawyers get millions of dollars

The only class action lawsuits I have received anything from was Netflix (where I got a coupon for a FREE month at a higher level than I was....but of course Netflix would keep billing me at that level if I didn't advise them I wanted to go back..)

Class action lawsuits are only ever good for the lawyers representing you...it gives the actual users nothing..

As for the HD2900XT... I have one (*still haven't been able to use it yet...waiting on a new PSU to arrive).. and I'll be happy to sit back and wait for the new drivers to implement HDDVD/Blu-ray playback via hardware..who knows...the playback from the 2900 might kill the playback from the 2400/2600 in terms of quality..

It's just been blown out of proportion.. Athlough AMD is really at fault here..I remember them saying that their drivers were great, they were just waiting on marketing to release the card... I guess being WHQL certified doesn't really mean much anymore these days..

WHQL usually means you will not experience crashes, has little to do with performance
 

mruffin75

Senior member
May 19, 2007
343
0
0
Originally posted by: Zstream


WHQL usually means you will not experience crashes, has little to do with performance

Oh I know... but it's easy enough to pass WHQL certification for Blu-ray/HD DVD playback if you don't implement it!
 

v8envy

Platinum Member
Sep 7, 2002
2,720
0
0
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003


You know what, who really cares how much CPU is being utilized when watching movies? Sure, there are some folks who multitask, but are they really enjoying the movie flitting back and forth to another app? Doubtful. Even if they are doing some folding in the background, the cpu should handle it just fine. Unless your CPU and rest of your rig is prehistoric, in which case, why fold on it?

Image quality on the other hand might be a factor, but to tell you the truth, I was perfectly happy watching DVD's on my 14" lappy 5 years ago, before any of this PV or AVIVO crap.
Overhyped, and underdone. It's not a need, but a want.

Spoken as someone who doesn't use their PC for video at all. Here are some scenarios:

1. watching a movie on monitor 2 while gaming on monitor 1. Yup, not all games are fast twitch shooters, there are plenty of strategy and MMO games that have significant timewastes built in. Being able to multitask is a giant plus.

2. Automatic commercial flagging. Done by the DVR in the background. To detect a commercial the video stream is played back and examined for commercial signatures by a process. Every frame must be looked at, albeit not in real time. The more CPU is available the better.

3. DVRs are not compute servers. You want to put in the slowest, lowest energy using & heat emiting CPU and video card you can into one. Building an acceptable living room compatible multimedia PC is a delicate balancing act of matching components. A 60 decibel vacuum cleaner sucking 900 watts out of the wall to emit as heat 24x7 isn't going to cut it.

It's absolutely false to say that nobody cares about CPU use for video playback -- plenty of people do, they just may not be visiting a video gaming enthusiast forum. I had been burned in the past by buying hardware without media playback ability under linux (radeon 9600), and I for one am very interested on whether or not it's present on a product.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
Originally posted by: v8envy
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003


You know what, who really cares how much CPU is being utilized when watching movies? Sure, there are some folks who multitask, but are they really enjoying the movie flitting back and forth to another app? Doubtful. Even if they are doing some folding in the background, the cpu should handle it just fine. Unless your CPU and rest of your rig is prehistoric, in which case, why fold on it?

Image quality on the other hand might be a factor, but to tell you the truth, I was perfectly happy watching DVD's on my 14" lappy 5 years ago, before any of this PV or AVIVO crap.
Overhyped, and underdone. It's not a need, but a want.

Spoken as someone who doesn't use their PC for video at all. Here are some scenarios:

1. watching a movie on monitor 2 while gaming on monitor 1. Yup, not all games are fast twitch shooters, there are plenty of strategy and MMO games that have significant timewastes built in. Being able to multitask is a giant plus.

2. Automatic commercial flagging. Done by the DVR in the background. To detect a commercial the video stream is played back and examined for commercial signatures by a process. Every frame must be looked at, albeit not in real time. The more CPU is available the better.

3. DVRs are not compute servers. You want to put in the slowest, lowest energy using & heat emiting CPU and video card you can into one. Building an acceptable living room compatible multimedia PC is a delicate balancing act of matching components. A 60 decibel vacuum cleaner sucking 900 watts out of the wall to emit as heat 24x7 isn't going to cut it.

It's absolutely false to say that nobody cares about CPU use for video playback -- plenty of people do, they just may not be visiting a video gaming enthusiast forum. I had been burned in the past by buying hardware without media playback ability under linux (radeon 9600), and I for one am very interested on whether or not it's present on a product.

As I said, it's not a need, but a want. There are exceptions of course, but then those that are exceptions have no business buying a 2900XT now do they? Especially after they have been well informed by threads like this. They should not even consider a card that won't give them what they want. Those who live and breathe video decoding will absolutely steer clear of a card that won't do it for them.

You won't be buying one of these right? So what's the prob?
 
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