Originally posted by: Gnitepracdlo
Originally posted by: ND40oz
In this weeks best buy ad (comes in the Sunday paper) it says all Visiontek cards are 20% this week. Even if the website says it's $399 they should still give you the 20% off instore because of the Ad (usually they have them at the front of the store too). Best Buy can do a customer fullfillment for a product, when I went the second time, they had 3 available for customer fullfillment. I don't know if this a regional number or national, but you can call the store and ask them if they have any available for customer fullfillment. One store wouldn't even bother checking for me, but I called another and they looked it up for me. If you're a reward zone member you should have had coupons emailed to you for Fathers Day, they have a 12% off coupon that you can use on the card as well instore.
very nice..i followed your advice and it worked. i went to the store and i was able to order it shipped to the store for the sale price.
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: nullpointerus
Originally posted by: apoppin
and since 32-bit Vista DOES use 4GB of system RAM [512MB are "eaten up" by my HD2900xt and other HW uses it] BUT actually 3.12GB are actually "available"
That wording is a little misleading. The CPU has a certain amount of global address space available to it. Some of the address space is mapped to physical RAM, and some of the address space is mapped to memory present on expansion cards. So while your computer may have 4GB RAM, the 32-bit OS will only be able to use 3.12GB of that RAM. The rest will site idle (even to the OS) because the address space above 3.12GB has already been doled out to the 512MB of GPU RAM and various other kinds of RAM in the system.
In other words, the remaining 0.88GB of system RAM is in limbo. No one can see it, and no one can use it for anything. Only the complete set of (a) BIOS memory remapping option, (b) 64-bit hardware, and (c) 64-bit enabled OS will ever "see" memory above the 3.12GB limitation because only this exact combination results in a properly-utiltized address space greater than 4GB.
not intentionally "misleading"
and there are workarounds that allow 32bit Vista to see much more than 3.12GB RAM ... but they require working thru another "layer" and performance is slowed somewhat ... but there will be that option with my system if i ever want to get more than 4GB RAM
and i understand that MS may change this limitation ... it is rather arbitrarily set at 3.12GB . ... it could definitely be set higher if they choose ... and i am hearing that there may be in fact a decent workaround for 32-bit RAM limitations in a later SP.
MORE INFORMATION
A 32-bit operating system can address memory that is relocated above the 4 GB boundary if the following conditions are true:
? The computer is in Physical Address Extension (PAE) mode.
? The computer has 4 GB of RAM.
In this case, the operating system correctly reports how much memory is installed.
Additionally, some x64-based operating systems can address up to 2 terabytes (TB) of RAM. For more information, visit the following Microsoft Web page:
http://www.microsoft.com/techn...rver/sp2/overview.mspx (http://www.microsoft.com/techn...ver/sp2/overview.mspx)
To enable PAE mode, you have to add PAE to the boot entry in the BCD file. Open an elevated command prompt. Type BCDEDIT /SET PAE ForceEnable.
Note There is no Boot.ini file in Windows Vista. The Boot.ini file is used for legacy Windows versions when dual-booting only
For more information, click the following article numbers to view the articles in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
268230 (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/268230/) Scaling out versus scaling up with Intel Physical Addressing Extensions (PAE)
283037 (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/283037/) Large memory support is available in Windows 2000 and Windows Server 2003
If you add more memory to the system, the BIOS might recognize all the physical RAM even though Windows recognizes only a part of the RAM. If the computer uses a redundant memory feature or a memory mirroring feature, the full complement of memory may be invisible to Windows. Redundant memory provides the system with a failover memory bank when a memory bank fails. Memory mirroring splits the memory banks into a mirrored set. You can enable or disable these features by using the BIOS. You cannot enable or disable these features by using Windows. To modify the settings for these features, refer to the computer's user manual or to the BIOS manufacturer's Web site. Or, contact the manufacturer.
For example, if the computer has 4 GB of RAM installed, and you add 4 GB of additional RAM, Windows may recognize only 4 or 6 GB of RAM instead of the full 8 GB. The redundant memory feature or the memory mirroring feature may be enabled on the new memory banks without your knowledge. These symptoms resemble the symptoms that occur when you do not add the /PAE switch to the Boot.ini file.
WORKAROUND
For Windows Vista to use all 4 GB of memory on a computer that has 4 GB of memory installed, the computer must meet the following requirements:
? The chipset must support at least 8 GB of address space. Chipsets that have this capability include the following:
? Intel 975X
? Intel P965
? Intel 955X on Socket 775
? Chipsets that support AMD processors that use socket F, socket 940, socket 939, or socket AM2. These chipsets include any AMD socket and CPU combination in which the memory controller resides in the CPU.
? The CPU must support the x64 instruction set. The AMD64 CPU and the Intel EM64T CPU support this instruction set.
? The BIOS must support the memory remapping feature. The memory remapping feature allows for the segment of system memory that was previously overwritten by the Peripheral Component Interconnect (PCI) configuration space to be remapped above the 4 GB address line. This feature must be enabled in the BIOS configuration utility on the computer. View your computer product documentation for instructions that explain how to enable this feature. Many consumer-oriented computers may not support the memory remapping feature. No standard terminology is used in documentation or in BIOS configuration utilities for this feature. Therefore, you may have to read the descriptions of the various BIOS configuration settings that are available to determine whether any of the settings enable the memory remapping feature.
? An x64 (64-bit) version of Windows Vista must be used.
Contact the computer vendor to determine whether your computer meets these requirements.
Note When the physical RAM that is installed on a computer equals the address space that is supported by the chipset, the total system memory that is available to the operating system is always less than the physical RAM that is installed. For example, consider a computer that has an Intel 975X chipset that supports 8 GB of address space. If you install 8 GB of RAM, the system memory that is available to the operating system will be reduced by the PCI configuration requirements. In this scenario, PCI configuration requirements reduce the memory that is available to the operating system by an amount that is between approximately 200 MB and approximately 1 GB. The reduction depends on the configuration.
Back to the top
MORE INFORMATION
PAE-mode-induced driver compatibility issues
Driver compatibility issues that are related to Data Execution Prevention (DEP) are typically physical address extension (PAE) mode-induced compatibility issues.
Note PAE is required only on computers that have processors that support hardware-enforced DEP.
DEP may cause compatibility issues with any driver that performs code generation or that uses other techniques to generate executable code in real time. Many drivers that experienced these issues have been fixed. Because DEP is always on for drivers that are on 64-bit versions of Windows, these drivers typically experienced compatibility issues. However, there is no guarantee that all drivers have been updated to fix PAE-mode-induced compatibility issues. However, there are few drivers that use these techniques. DEP alone does not typically cause driver compatibility issues.
The primary driver compatibility issues that you may experience occur when you run PAE mode on 32-bit computers. PAE mode enables processors to use more than 4 GB of memory. The primary difference between PAE memory paging schemes and non-PAE memory paging schemes is the additional level of paging that is required in PAE mode. PAE mode requires three levels of paging instead of two levels of paging.
Some drivers might not load if PAE mode is enabled because the device might be unable to perform 64-bit addressing. Or, the drivers might be written with the assumption that PAE mode requires more than 4 GB of memory. Such drivers are written with the expectation that the drivers will always receive 64-bit addresses in PAE mode and that the driver or the device cannot interpret the address.
Other drivers might load in PAE mode but cause system instability by directly modifying system page table entries (PTE). These drivers expect 32-bit page table entries but receive 64-bit PTEs in PAE mode instead.
The most common PAE compatibility issue for drivers involves direct memory access (DMA) transfers and map register allocation. Many devices that support DMA, typically 32-bit adapters, cannot perform 64-bit physical addressing. When these devices run in 32-bit mode, the devices can address all physical address space. In PAE mode, data can be present at a physical address that is larger than 4 GB. To enable devices that have these constraints to function in this scenario, Microsoft Windows 2000 Server and later versions of Windows provide double-buffering for the DMA transaction. Windows 2000 Server and later versions of Windows do this by providing a 32-bit address that is indicated by a map register. The device can perform the DMA transaction to the 32-bit address. The kernel copies the memory to the 64-bit address that is provided to the driver. When the computer runs with PAE mode disabled, drivers for 32-bit devices do not require that system memory be allocated to their map registers. This means that double-buffering is not required because all devices and all drivers are contained within the 32-bit address space. Tests of drivers for 32-bit devices on 64-bit processor?based computers have demonstrated that DMA-capable drivers that are client tested typically expect unlimited map registers.
The third-party products that this article discusses are manufactured by companies that are independent of Microsoft. Microsoft makes no warranty, implied or otherwise, about the performance or reliability of these products
Originally posted by: ND40oz
Originally posted by: Gnitepracdlo
Originally posted by: ND40oz
In this weeks best buy ad (comes in the Sunday paper) it says all Visiontek cards are 20% this week. Even if the website says it's $399 they should still give you the 20% off instore because of the Ad (usually they have them at the front of the store too). Best Buy can do a customer fullfillment for a product, when I went the second time, they had 3 available for customer fullfillment. I don't know if this a regional number or national, but you can call the store and ask them if they have any available for customer fullfillment. One store wouldn't even bother checking for me, but I called another and they looked it up for me. If you're a reward zone member you should have had coupons emailed to you for Fathers Day, they have a 12% off coupon that you can use on the card as well instore.
very nice..i followed your advice and it worked. i went to the store and i was able to order it shipped to the store for the sale price.
Awesome, they messed up my second order, so I had to go back today and reorder. Took forever. Did you have any issue with the 20% off not coming off? They had my old receipt, so they had the price but it took 10 minutes to get it to ring up with the two discounts. Oh well, instead of having them both on Friday, the ones delayed until Tuesday. Glad it worked for you.
Windows XP originally supported a full 4 GB of RAM. You would be limited to 3.1-3.5 GB without PAE, but if you enabled PAE on a 4 GB system with proper chipset and motherboard support, you would have access to the full 4 GB. As more people began to take advantage of this feature using commodity (read: cheapest product with the features I want) hardware, Microsoft noticed a new source of crashes and blue screens. These were traced to drivers failing to correctly handle 64-bit physical addresses. A decision was made to improve system stability at a cost of possibly wasting memory. XP SP2 introduced a change such that only the bottom 32 bits of physical memory will ever be used, even if that means some memory will not be used. (This is also the case with 32-bit editions of Vista.) While this is annoying to those who want that little bit of extra oomph, and while I would have liked a way to re-enable the memory ?at my own risk?, this is probably the right decision for 99.9% of the general population of Windows users (and probably saves Dell millions in support costs). See the relevant KB article and a TechNet article for details.
Originally posted by: djnsmith7
I know there are a LOT of Nay sayers around here (& for good reason), I mean, look at the reviews & benchmarks, nobody can get their sh** straight about this card...It sux, it's awesome, drivers suck, drivers are working, etc...This card's all over the map according to the different reporting sites...
I was a very long time fan of ATI products until I bought my current 7800 GT OC...I'm more of a fan of both sides now that I've actually tried both products...
Anyway, enough sidestepping, I'm excited to try out this card tomorrow & see if it lives up to any of the pre-launch hype...I had my heart & soul set on an 8800 GTS 640, but missed the $295 AR deal & wasn't about to pay today's price for it...
For $280, the XT was hard to pass up...If this card fails to meet or exceed my expectations, back to BB it goes & I'll wait for the 640 to drop a few bux...No biggie...
I'll post my results/findings/opinions sometime tomorrow nite...
Now the results I'm really excited to see are shortly after 7/22 when I upgrade to the Raptor, Q6600 & go up to 4 GB of PC6400...
Originally posted by: apoppin
Thank-you
it is going to be awhile before i actually get to playing games ... and i am startingh h te weekend tired
but first ... before i go ... Vista recognizes SATA HDs without additional disks, right? ... unlike with XP or Win2K
i think i have everything else ... since i will be using this HD as a backup, i can always access the files i need here using Vista once it is installed
Originally posted by: nullpointerus
You should be fine. Vista setup is way ahead of XP--both in ease and speed.
If you motherboard requires special drivers for Vista setup, they should be included on a floppy disk.
EDIT: My advice is to install the OS with stock clocks on everything.
It is recommended you use Windows Vista to format and partition your hard disk drive when installing Vista on a boot drive or adding a drive as additional storage. The following are step-by-step installation instructions on how to format and partition a drive in Windows Vista.
Fresh Vista Install:
1. Physically install the hard drive in your computer. If this is a PATA / IDE drive, set the BIOS to Auto-Detect the hard disk. If this is a SATA drive, on some systems you may need to enable the SATA port in the BIOS before the computer recognizes the drive.
Originally posted by: apoppin
these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...b%2fs+Hard+Drive+-+OEM
just the bare drives ... no disks whatsoever ... i guess i should just go for it
and i just noticed: "Seagate 5 year Warranty" ... good deal for $67 each
thanks to all of you for the kind words
Originally posted by: CrystalBay
My father went to the University of Redlands and AL Schugart (founder of Seagate and recently passed away) was his classmate. I don't know why I posted that, but Seagate's drives are good I have had a few cheetah's and they have always been high quality drives with excellent warranties...