2900XT vs 8800GTS 320

[Wreckage]

Well you "may" be able to argue that Hardocp cherry picked games that run better on Nvidia cards. I have seen other sites do this for ATI as well.

However, other sites do backup those numbers for those games.

Not to mention many of those who cry "bias" are just calling the kettle black.

For whatever reason the 2900 runs like crap on certain games even getting beat by a X1950 and drivers so far have not fixed this problem.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: SolMiester

Sorry Appopin, now your pulling stories out of your arse bud.....Please show where you get the bias from in the review?....and what is with the Nvidia bought HardOCP, that sounds like trolling to me....

Everybody is allowed an opinion, just because you dont agree with their judgment, doesnt make it wrong or unfair..

ATI dropped the ball again, this hardware seriously needs better optimized drivers

thank-you for acknowledging that *i* am entitled to my own opinion ... and my opinion is that HardOCP lost it's objectivity last year with this BS method of testing.

absolutely no one ... not a single legitimate site echoes their conclusions that the GTS 340 is a generally better/faster card than the HD2900xt

just because you dont agree with my judgment, doesnt make it wrong or unfair..

and i am going to *judge* the HD2900xt in my own very capable rig ... and if it agrees with HardOCP, i will issue a FULL APOLOGY to them HERE, sell my HD2900xt for more than i paid for it and buy a 8800GTX

fair enough?

is THAT fair and balanced?

or what ?

 

[schneiderguy]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Well you "may" be able to argue that Hardocp cherry picked games that run better on Nvidia cards. I have seen other sites do this for ATI as well.

However, other sites do backup those numbers for those games.

Not to mention many of those who cry "bias" are just calling the kettle black.

For whatever reason the 2900 runs like crap on certain games even getting beat by a X1950 and drivers so far have not fixed this problem.

Other sites back up HardOCP's numbers? They were the only site to say that the 8600gts is faster than the x1950pro. They were the only site to say that the 320mb GTS is better than the 2900xt.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

For whatever reason the 2900 runs like crap on certain games even getting beat by a X1950 and drivers so far have not fixed this problem.

this i will be uniquely be able to test ... right now, with my x1950p/512M, i run STALKER at higher settings than in the H-OCP Review at 14x9 and also get 30FPS as a mimimum

so i should be able to get much higher with my HD2900xt if i am right

or it will be in FS/T pretty quickly ... i bet i will have no trouble getting $350 for it next week

i am not keeping a "loser" ... nor would i want to lose any of my credibility trying to promote one here

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Dazed and Confused
If they would have used identical setting for all cards then that review would actually mean something.

Thats the whole point. They said they had to reduce settings sometimes on the 2900 to get playable framerates. Last year you guys just LUV'd H and their method of benching. This year? Not to thrilled with it?

I'll admit, I didn't like their method at first, but it actually gave more information than most other sites about the playability of games. So what was so different from last year to this year?

i never liked it ... it is a stupid review style that depends on the reviewer's "judgement" as to what is "playable" or not

for HardOCP, it appears that the x2900xt needs at least 5 FPS more at identical settings to be "playable"

i'd say nvidia Bought HardOCP, lock stock and barrel ... they OWN it

i'd say they are completely full of crap on STALKER .. and we'll see ... i trust myself far more then i do the HardOCP nvida fanboys

i have a fast enough system to bench it but my only problem is that i don't have a GTS to compare with my xt

I have STALKER as well. Let me know when you get your gear up and running "nicely" and we can go toe to toe. Reviewers be damned.

We can even clock our CPU's the same. We may have to adjust for differential between my E6420 and your E4300, 4MBc/1066 FSB and 2MBc/800 FSB respectively.

But, I'm up for it. After that, our systems are close enough. The only difference may be your use of Vista. I only have XP.

Other than that, let the games begin.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Dazed and Confused
If they would have used identical setting for all cards then that review would actually mean something.

Thats the whole point. They said they had to reduce settings sometimes on the 2900 to get playable framerates. Last year you guys just LUV'd H and their method of benching. This year? Not to thrilled with it?

I'll admit, I didn't like their method at first, but it actually gave more information than most other sites about the playability of games. So what was so different from last year to this year?

i never liked it ... it is a stupid review style that depends on the reviewer's "judgement" as to what is "playable" or not

for HardOCP, it appears that the x2900xt needs at least 5 FPS more at identical settings to be "playable"

i'd say nvidia Bought HardOCP, lock stock and barrel ... they OWN it

i'd say they are completely full of crap on STALKER .. and we'll see ... i trust myself far more then i do the HardOCP nvida fanboys

i have a fast enough system to bench it but my only problem is that i don't have a GTS to compare with my xt

I have STALKER as well. Let me know when you get your gear up and running "nicely" and we can go toe to toe. Reviewers be damned.

We can even clock our CPU's the same. We may have to adjust for differential between my E6420 and your E4300, 4MBc/1066 FSB and 2MBc/800 FSB respectively.

But, I'm up for it. After that, our systems are close enough. The only difference may be your use of Vista. I only have XP.

Other than that, let the games begin.

you know my system has changed a bit ...
... Gigabyte P35-DS3P/ Vista Home Premium 32-bit and 2 250GB Seagate 'Cudas in RAID-0

i am considering ordering ... right now ... http://www.newegg.com/Product/...p?Item=N82E16820148069
Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail $90 after $75 MiR ...

so i can test at OC'd to heaven FSBs also ... later i will add the additional +2GB PC6400 and run it at the slower speeds to see how Vista 32-Bit does with 4GB RAM ...

yeah ... sure .. i should have everything Friday and build and bench for the Weekend ... my problem is D/L'ing demos and patches over dialup so have to use what games i have

you are right
Reviewers be damned. we can do this ourselves ... better ... and answer questions and take requests ...

and try to replicate HardOCP's benches

 

[SolMiester]

No mate, not new!!!, and I have to say that I always thought poppy leaned towards ATI, certainly feed enough to Rollo during the period.

As to the opinion, well, yes, i guess you got me there!

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: SolMiester

Sorry Appopin, now your pulling stories out of your arse bud.....Please show where you get the bias from in the review?....and what is with the Nvidia bought HardOCP, that sounds like trolling to me....

Everybody is allowed an opinion, just because you dont agree with their judgment, doesnt make it wrong or unfair..

ATI dropped the ball again, this hardware seriously needs better optimized drivers

thank-you for acknowledging that *i* am entitled to my own opinion ... and my opinion is that HardOCP lost it's objectivity last year with this BS method of testing.

absolutely no one ... not a single legitimate site echoes their conclusions that the GTS 340 is a generally better/faster card than the HD2900xt

just because you dont agree with my judgment, doesnt make it wrong or unfair..

and i am going to *judge* the HD2900xt in my own very capable rig ... and if it agrees with HardOCP, i will issue a FULL APOLOGY to them HERE, sell my HD2900xt for more than i paid for it and buy a 8800GTX

fair enough?

is THAT fair and balanced?

or what ?

You do remember that this is just computer hardware, and not open heart surgery, right?

About the H reviews. I am not going to declare H results as gospel and for all other sites to follow their test methods. I also do not dismiss their results and accuse any monetary exchange for favorable benches. That was actually pretty sad. Apoppin, you have a 2900XT on it's way to you by Friday. You have spent a lot of money lately on your rig. You want it to be "worth" the money spent. I sympathize. I did exactly the same not 2 months ago. The H review is probably not what you really needed to see. The very card getting the thumbs down "so to speak" is the very card being shipped to your door in less than 2 days. Why in the name of Lou Costello would you even begin to place any stock in that H review. It's not in your best interests at the moment. Is it.

To all. I'd like to ask anyone who owns a similar system to mine (see sig) with the exception of owning a HD2900XT and who also owns the following games:

STALKER
FEAR
FAR CRY
COD2
PREY
PAINKILLER

I'd be willing to do some testing. Since nobody can agree on public reviews, why not do it in house? Let me know.

I'm going away for the weekend so, it can wait til Monday or so.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin


yeah ... sure .. i should have everything Friday and build and bench for the Weekend ... my problem is D/L'ing demos and patches over dialup so have to use what games i have

you are right
Reviewers be damned. we can do this ourselves ... better ... and answer questions and take requests ...

and try to replicate HardOCP's benches

Sounds great. Will be fun.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: schneiderguy
Other sites back up HardOCP's numbers?

Yes, other sites back up their numbers for the games they tested in this review.

They were the only site to say that the 8600gts is faster than the x1950pro.

We are not discussing that review and I don't feel like looking it up. Maybe it was. The pro is no screamer.

They were the only site to say that the 320mb GTS is better than the 2900xt.

Better is a relative term. It's way cheaper, uses less power, with less heat, less noise and seems to compete well in certain games.

Are you saying that's not true?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: SolMiester

Sorry Appopin, now your pulling stories out of your arse bud.....Please show where you get the bias from in the review?....and what is with the Nvidia bought HardOCP, that sounds like trolling to me....

Everybody is allowed an opinion, just because you dont agree with their judgment, doesnt make it wrong or unfair..

ATI dropped the ball again, this hardware seriously needs better optimized drivers

thank-you for acknowledging that *i* am entitled to my own opinion ... and my opinion is that HardOCP lost it's objectivity last year with this BS method of testing.

absolutely no one ... not a single legitimate site echoes their conclusions that the GTS 340 is a generally better/faster card than the HD2900xt

just because you dont agree with my judgment, doesnt make it wrong or unfair..

and i am going to *judge* the HD2900xt in my own very capable rig ... and if it agrees with HardOCP, i will issue a FULL APOLOGY to them HERE, sell my HD2900xt for more than i paid for it and buy a 8800GTX

fair enough?

is THAT fair and balanced?

or what ?

You do remember that this is just computer hardware, and not open heart surgery, right?

About the H reviews. I am not going to declare H results as gospel and for all other sites to follow their test methods. I also do not dismiss their results and accuse any monetary exchange for favorable benches. That was actually pretty sad. Apoppin, you have a 2900XT on it's way to you by Friday. You have spent a lot of money lately on your rig. You want it to be "worth" the money spent. I sympathize. I did exactly the same not 2 months ago. The H review is probably not what you really needed to see. The very card getting the thumbs down "so to speak" is the very card being shipped to your door in less than 2 days. Why in the name of Lou Costello would you even begin to place any stock in that H review. It's not in your best interests at the moment. Is it.

To all. I'd like to ask anyone who owns a similar system to mine (see sig) with the exception of owning a HD2900XT and who also owns the following games:

STALKER
FEAR
FAR CRY
COD2
PREY
PAINKILLER

I'd be willing to do some testing. Since nobody can agree on public reviews, why not do it in house? Let me know.

I'm going away for the weekend so, it can wait til Monday or so.

heart surgery ? you mean brain surgery ... look at 'why' i said what i did

i have *all* of your Games except CoD2 and i also have Oblivion, Gothic2 , NWN2 and Quake4

You didn't mention HL2 CH1 or Lost Coast ... i have both [Lost Coast i d/led a long time ago, so it may be older]


and i stand by what i said ... i BELIEVE that HardOCP is so nvidia fanboy that thye skew their testing and their results

SO FAR . ... by what i have observed ... if i can duplicate their test results and similar conclusions, i will APOLOGIZE to them HERE, sell my HD2900xt and buy a GTX

fair enough?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin


heart surgery ? you mean brain surgery ... look at 'why' i said what i did

i have *all* of your Games except CoD2 and i also have Oblivion, Gothic2 , NWN2 and Quake4

You didn't mention HL2 CH1 or Lost Coast ... i have both [Lost Coast i d/led a long time ago, so it may be older]

Well, both are life and death situations. What we are discussing is not. That was my only point.

Hmm. Don't have Oblivion, Gothic2, NWN2 or Q4. I do have a STEAM account though and can redownload HL2 & Lost Coast. Sounds like we can get a pretty good comparison going.

Six games between us in common. Not too shabby.

 

[apoppin]

no problem ... looks good ... i am willing to really test our respective GPUs

and i stand by what i said ... i BELIEVE that HardOCP has become so nvidia fansite that they skew their testing and their results and come up with a very biased conclusion --SO FAR . ... by what i have observed by carefully reading their reviews ...

NOW ... if i can duplicate their test results and get similar conclusions, i will APOLOGIZE to them HERE, sell my HD2900xt and buy a GTX
--not GTS at all

fair enough?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: apoppin
no problem ... looks good ... i am willing to really test our respective GPUs

and i stand by what i said ... i BELIEVE that HardOCP has become so nvidia fansite that they skew their testing and their results and come up with a very biased conclusion --SO FAR . ... by what i have observed by carefully reading their reviews ...

NOW ... if i can duplicate their test results and get similar conclusions, i will APOLOGIZE to them HERE, sell my HD2900xt and buy a GTX
--not GTS at all

fair enough?

Nobody's daring you to do anything. Go right ahead. It's you're money after all. I hope you're happy with your 2900. :thumbsup:

Goin ta behd. tyrrrrrd... hehe Nite folks.

 

[tuteja1986]

Wreckage we all know hardocp gets craploads of cash from Nvidia marketing and .... !! Go pick a more reliable review website. Also they are using 8.37.4.2 which isn't the latest driver and it had some problem. 2nd the way the tested was to make up new review rule just to show how supper bad 2900XT is. Also they didn't use any of the patch to fix ati performance issue with Stalker which was the game developer fault as they never tweaked it for ATI GPU. Ahh you even posting this makes you a complete nvidiot.

 

[tuteja1986]

Originally posted by: schneiderguy

Originally posted by: Wreckage
Well you "may" be able to argue that Hardocp cherry picked games that run better on Nvidia cards. I have seen other sites do this for ATI as well.

However, other sites do backup those numbers for those games.

Not to mention many of those who cry "bias" are just calling the kettle black.

For whatever reason the 2900 runs like crap on certain games even getting beat by a X1950 and drivers so far have not fixed this problem.

Other sites back up HardOCP's numbers? They were the only site to say that the 8600gts is faster than the x1950pro. They were the only site to say that the 320mb GTS is better than the 2900xt.

not they don't !! hardocps is hated by all the major review.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
Wreckage we all know hardocp gets craploads of cash from Nvidia marketing and .... !!

Your proof would be.....your imagination?

Go pick a more reliable review website.

One that favors your view?

Also they are using 8.37.4.2 which isn't the latest driver and it had some problem. 2nd the way the tested was to make up new review rule just to show how supper bad 2900XT is. Also they didn't use any of the patch to fix ati performance issue with Stalker which was the game developer fault as they never tweaked it for ATI GPU.

Also they did not submerge the 2900 in liquid Nitrogen.

Ahh you even posting this makes you a complete nvidiot.

Such class. Your saying that makes you a complete ATidiot..... :laugh:

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
Wreckage we all know hardocp gets craploads of cash from Nvidia marketing and .... !! Go pick a more reliable review website. Also they are using 8.37.4.2 which isn't the latest driver and it had some problem. 2nd the way the tested was to make up new review rule just to show how supper bad 2900XT is. Also they didn't use any of the patch to fix ati performance issue with Stalker which was the game developer fault as they never tweaked it for ATI GPU. Ahh you even posting this makes you a complete nvidiot.

/ban

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: apoppin
no problem ... looks good ... i am willing to really test our respective GPUs

and i stand by what i said ... i BELIEVE that HardOCP has become so nvidia fansite that they skew their testing and their results and come up with a very biased conclusion --SO FAR . ... by what i have observed by carefully reading their reviews ...

NOW ... if i can duplicate their test results and get similar conclusions, i will APOLOGIZE to them HERE, sell my HD2900xt and buy a GTX
--not GTS at all

fair enough?

Nobody's daring you to do anything. Go right ahead. It's you're money after all. I hope you're happy with your 2900. :thumbsup:

Goin ta behd. tyrrrrrd... hehe Nite folks.

what "dare" ? .... that is my plan ... i believe that HardOCP is beyond biased ... but i am nobody's fool ... if i find out they are correct, i will apologize [to them for saying they skewed their benches] and sell my HD2900xt because i want something faster than the 640 GTS.

it isn't rocket science

and i just realized that my C2D stock intel HSF won't do at all ...

Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme CPU Cooler
just got suggested to me

 

[bfdd]

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777

Originally posted by: bfdd

Originally posted by: ArchAngel777
I never claimed the site was biased, just the well known fact that Wreckage is biased. This is the *second* review of the 2900XT since the initial release. So we have one review saying it is on par with a 8800GTX and one review saying it cannot even keep up with the 8800GTS. If I am not willing to take the review that shows the 2900XT in a good light, then why would I be willing to accept the review that shows the 2900XT dominated?

This review, in my opinion, was shoddy. That doesn't mean their numbers are false, fake, I just think the review was a P.O.S. regardless of their numbers. So they are stating the card runs like crap - ok, lets wait and see what AT/TH have to say about it when they retest.

I NEVER read a review saying it was on par with a 8800 GTX, infact I've read all the opposite. I've read it's on par if not slightly faster than an 8800 GTS, but it still is no where close to a 8800 GTX infact ATs review clearly shows an 8800 GTX SINGLE is faster than it in Xfire so wtf?

1) http://www.techspot.com/review...asus-radeon-hd-2900xt/

2) Were not talking about Initial reviews. Reading comprehension FTW.

3) So lets wait and see?

two reviews that show you're wrong, one that has your "hard facts" don't be a douche I can easily say that's bias and leans towards ATI what's to prove me wrong? Because you believe it? BTW those are awful low 3dmark06 scores, I got higher at 2.4ghz stock 2gb corsair 1066, and the gtx at stock. I'm pretty sure atleast. I could run it again if you like want me to set it all stock and we can see? I even have slower ram but 4gb of it now, want to run a bench side by side on vista? you running 64bit?

 

[Matt2]

+1 for this thread.

 

[gramboh]

What a useless review style. How is it relevant having someone judge what is playable/looks nice? Raw FPS data at CONSTANT detail settings with various resolution/AA/AF like Anandtech does is the ONLY relevant measure. I don't load Hardocp.com because I don't want to give them ad revenue.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: tuteja1986
Wreckage we all know hardocp gets craploads of cash from Nvidia marketing and .... !! Go pick a more reliable review website. Also they are using 8.37.4.2 which isn't the latest driver and it had some problem. 2nd the way the tested was to make up new review rule just to show how supper bad 2900XT is. Also they didn't use any of the patch to fix ati performance issue with Stalker which was the game developer fault as they never tweaked it for ATI GPU. Ahh you even posting this makes you a complete nvidiot.

/ban

But HOCP IS a load of junk, and I am glad the majority of people here agree

We all know the card should sit squarely between the GTS and the GTX, except on those games which have failing drivers, so how are they showing even worse results now with better drivers than they showed on launch day? BS!

At a very LEAST it should equal a GTS640 all around, and thats a fact proven by every other review site

I dont see how pointing HOCP biasedness makes us Ati fanboys its a question of counterbalance, HOCP is +50% nvidia, we take those 50%, give them to ATi, and its back to 0%

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: gramboh
What a useless review style. How is it relevant having someone judge what is playable/looks nice? Raw FPS data at CONSTANT detail settings with various resolution/AA/AF like Anandtech does is the ONLY relevant measure. I don't load Hardocp.com because I don't want to give them ad revenue.

What if by enabling 16xCSAA on G80 net you a total loss of 1fps and the other card gets hit by 10fps? What then?

The world we live in is NOT a fair place. I dont see just how bias they are. Their timedemos or method =/= other review sites. How do you know they aren't testing the card through very GPU intensive method? Take a look at this.

apple to apple by [h
apple to apple by [h

Im just more interested by their perspective on R600. Obviously their not afraid of critically judging the R600 unlike most other "legitimate" review sites according to some users in here.

The thing that surprises me is just how many people jump to conclusions like that and act like little children saying things like "NV paid them etc etc" without any hard concrete proof at all. Its not the end of the world people. If R600 was faster than the GTX, none of this shouldve happened in the first place. Its performance across the board is so sketchy as seen by benchmarks from review site to review site, swaying in favor to the R600 to terribly losing in others even against a X1950XTX.

However, maybe apoppin can prove me wrong when he gets his card.. someone who will have first hand experience which means benchies.. benchies.. more benchies

tuteja1986 - you realise 8.37.4.2 drivers are the ones that gave R600 the performance boosts according to various R600 users (e.g xion x2).

edit - I might get burned alive posting that, (i got FREE cookies *wink wink* *trying to bribe*) but i just wish we could have some constructive discussion going on instead of cursing, insulting and flaming here in AT.

 

[Sable]

lol at everyone.

Just take it for what it is, a review of those cards for those games at those resolutions with those settings. The results showed that FOR THOSE SETTINGS the 2900XT was pap and came in 3rd, you can;t argue with that.

We all know the best review site is www.techreport.com anyway.