2GB VRAM still worth for upcoming games?

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-slash-

Senior member
Jan 21, 2014
361
1
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Thats more due to a badly made private mod than due to using 4K textures.

I can easily play Skyrim with the official packs at 2560*1440 with everything maxed with 2GB.
Show me how these mods are badly made? My texture packs are MUCH high quality than the garbage official texture packs, not to mention I have upgraded texturing for a lot more items than the official packs. It has very little to do with a badly made mod and more to due with resolution and quantity of textures as well as added flora to the environment. I can easily play Skyrim with the official packs at 1080p as well, it doesnt look anything like what I have now.

As games keep getting better with high resolution textures more vRam will be needed to an extent. I do recall reading when stepping up in monitor resolution above 1080p less MSAA is required therefore lowering required vRam from that. I do believe 1440p and higher will require more and more vRam than 1080p.

The problem is a lot of cards dont have the horsepower to even utilize the vRam. I've upgraded from a 560ti 2gb to a GTX 780 3gb for this very reason.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
With the official packs, Skyrim still looks fuzzier than tunnel shooters from years earlier, and just makes it worthy of having 1GB at <1080P. They boost it to just over console quality. Not to knock it overall, but there are some faults I've come to expect from Bethesda games out of the box, and it was not an exception. Waiting awhile, and then playing a community-tailored version of it, is part of it, and really makes me pity the console players (and it's not even the visual improvements that really make it, but that I get to have to worry about clothes and food, and still have a real challenge as the game progresses).

VRAM is ending up being a lot like system RAM, in that a smaller amount is just fine, to a point, so long as your hardware isn't starved for more (1-2GB, today and in the near future), and getting more than a given card is specified for is largely a matter of wanting more detailed visuals, not of requisite performance (but that doesn't mean the GPU will be a bottleneck before the RAM, if you try to make the game need 2GB of textures when you only have 2GB total--more VRAM for a given GPU can be fine, and not require moving up to a higher-end GPU, if more screen pixels aren't having to be worked on). Even as it has increased in price, RAM has stayed cheap enough that neither AMD nor nVidia spec too little, in either total capacity or number of packages (interface width, effectively), to handle what software is out there or soon to be out there.

For instance, with a decent broadband connection, you can blow right past 1GB VRAM in The Witcher, with a quick trip to The Nexus or ModDB; and The Witcher 2 doesn't even need mods for that, able to get to ~1.5GB stock, but with them can exceed 2GB handily; should we expect the 3rd installment to stagnate in that realm, be it stock or after the fact? I don't think so. Much like Bethesda, but way more efficient at it, CDP have put in a wide variety of surfaces with varied textures, with sufficient view distance and clutter and distance to chew up some RAM with textures, should the textures be of sufficient detail, and if the maker doesn't do that sufficiently, the community will.

OTOH, 1GB is the common denominator, so of course it's going to run fine in 1GB VRAM, too. Nothing will be unplayable in 1GB at 1080P, much less 2GB at 1080P, for some time. To do so would mean alienating customers.

IMO, either is fine, for the OP. It all depends on what the OP is going to play, and how, and what the OP's priorities are, since doubling VRAM adds significant cost, and what IQ improvements are worth some performance reduction is subjective, and may not be worth paying more to be able to have or try out (until surfaces <1ft away from the "player eyes" have 2 or more texture/shader samples per screen pixel, FI--at ~100 PPI at ~3ft--I'll want for higher texture detail). Cards with double the regular spec have their place, even outside of SLI. But, just the same, no current stock-spec >$150 card is going to be crap for any game coming out in the next few years at 1080P. It's just a question of your performance and detail wants, and budget.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
the next games you listed will probably run fine on 2gb vram. but if you want to mod any of them or you want to play the next release of games after that on high settings you probably want more than 2 gb vram. you can get the asus 280x direct cu 2 top for 320.

http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin/shop/shop.cgi?action=enter&thispage=011004001502_BTJ5741P.shtml

Skyrim, Ultra settings, Single 1080p monitor, 4k texture mods. After adding a higher res flora mod I'm sitting at 2k most of the time when outside. Before I wasnt getting FPS drops, now I am. Granted modded Skyrim isnt everyones bag, but 1080p can use 2gb of vRam

same problem. runing project enb with cot, water elfx, and 2k textures was using 1900 to 2000 mb of ram. trying to figure out what would be the right mod selection. wish i would have bought a 280x instead of a 270x.

Thats more due to a badly made private mod than due to using 4K textures. I can easily play Skyrim with the official packs at 2560*1440 with everything maxed with 2GB.

that is just ignorance. the official hd textures and nothing else is not the same even at 1440p.

Consoles is not pushing anything graphics wise. Rather the other way around. 720p, 900p, 30FPS capped etc. And as stated, if you really feel the need for it. Get the 4GB GTX770. Because you could ask yourself again. Would 3GB be enough vs 4GB?

the ps4 will push graphics because the developers can utilize the full potential of the hardware. on pcs they will have to use somewhat more hardware to be able to get the same performance across multiple machines. or at least that seems like that is the problem. not sure how much time developers put on the pc. agree that 4gb might have some uses in the future that a 3gb might not do. honestly he should get a 3gb 280x or a 4gb 770 or wait for the maxwell 870.

Edit. I am really out of this subject of "mining", first time I heard people talking about it was here. Won't use my card for that purpose, altough I know what bitcoin is.

do not worry about it. you can still get a 280x for stock price if you are willing to look through different shops and wiat for backorders. honestly you do not have to look hard on google shopping to find one. first page. there is a link above for your asus 280x
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
Show me how these mods are badly made?

honestly the game is badly made and not the mods. we were told that skyrim might be dx11 before it was released. honestly that was probably just a marketing ploy to get pc gamers interested in buying skyrim. even without dx11 the pc version was full of problems. the attention for the ps3 version seems fishy too. did they really try or did they even try to make the ps3 version problematic from the beginning because of the exclusivity deal with microsoft
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
the ps4 will push graphics because the developers can utilize the full potential of the hardware. on pcs they will have to use somewhat more hardware to be able to get the same performance across multiple machines. or at least that seems like that is the problem. not sure how much time developers put on the pc. agree that 4gb might have some uses in the future that a 3gb might not do. honestly he should get a 3gb 280x or a 4gb 770 or wait for the maxwell 870.

Consoles just lower graphics and features over its lifespan. A PC with a HD7850 already performs like the consoles. And this time consoles are even weaker graphcis wise than last release.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,637
3,095
136
If you need everything totally maxed, single 2gb cards are going to suffer already. No biggie though if you can turn a couple things down.
 

-slash-

Senior member
Jan 21, 2014
361
1
41
same problem. runing project enb with cot, water elfx, and 2k textures was using 1900 to 2000 mb of ram. trying to figure out what would be the right mod selection. wish i would have bought a 280x instead of a 270x.
I dont even have an ENB running right now. Enabling ENB drops my frames below 40fps. I'm upgrading to the 780.

honestly the game is badly made and not the mods. we were told that skyrim might be dx11 before it was released. honestly that was probably just a marketing ploy to get pc gamers interested in buying skyrim. even without dx11 the pc version was full of problems. the attention for the ps3 version seems fishy too. did they really try or did they even try to make the ps3 version problematic from the beginning because of the exclusivity deal with microsoft

Exactly. A lot of the mods make improvements to the original game.
 

-slash-

Senior member
Jan 21, 2014
361
1
41

So because this guy says that he sees some texture mods formatted improperly that automatically makes the ones I have downloaded bad? You have no idea which mods I have and if they're saved correctly. I have none of the mods he pointed out as bad and do not have any mods from those authors. Using a blanket statement with no backing only proves your ignorance.

I think you missed our point as well, official HD textures arent even close to the mod communities.

Edit: Further reading shows the mod I use "Skyrim HD" is fine and does not need optimization.
 

Majcric

Golden Member
May 3, 2011
1,377
40
91
OP, I don't think you need to worry about 2gb Vram unless later you decide to go sli. A single GTX 770 will more often then not choke before it will run out of Vram. And at worse case scenario you'd just have to disable a few settings that would hardly have any affect on IQ.
 

-slash-

Senior member
Jan 21, 2014
361
1
41
OP, I don't think you need to worry about 2gb Vram unless later you decide to go sli. A single GTX 770 will more often then not choke before it will run out of Vram. And at worse case scenario you'd just have to disable a few settings that would hardly have any affect on IQ.

On a 4gb card yes, on a 2gb card no. A 560ti can utilize 2gb of vRam before choking out. Playable at 60fps. A 770 wont be able to utilize the full 4gb, but I bet it can utilize more than 2gb without stuttering too bad.
 

sobe88

Member
Feb 11, 2013
27
0
0
OP, I don't think you need to worry about 2gb Vram unless later you decide to go sli. A single GTX 770 will more often then not choke before it will run out of Vram. And at worse case scenario you'd just have to disable a few settings that would hardly have any affect on IQ.

This ^ If you really feel the need to worry about VRAM just drop down and get a 780 or AMD card offering 3GB+
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
Edit: Further reading shows the mod I use "Skyrim HD" is fine and does not need optimization.
I've been running the optimizer on everything, just in case (I'm carefully managing 1GB for the moment--an upgrade will be on the way shortly), and so far, it's only been the official BSAs where more than a couple % were saved.

This ^ If you really feel the need to worry about VRAM just drop down and get a 780 or AMD card offering 3GB+
Or a 760 4GB, without going over the budget in the OP. 3GB v. 4GB won't be much/any difference, but it's 2GB or 4GB with Geforces, and the coin craze gives them some serious bang/buck right now, starting around $250 and going up. I was dead set on a Radeon, again, especially after annoying Forceware issues cropping up every few versions, but the cryptocoins just don't make it viable for the money.

You can only future proof so well, though, not actually being in the future. Keep that in mind, regardless of what you go with. A bit of worry over it isn't bad, but go too far, and you'll either over pay greatly, wait forever, or buy something too weak to get the degree of enjoyment you were looking for in the performance-predictable near term.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
Highly disagree with this too. Id take a fully refined and mature GTX 770(AKA GTX 680) over a 280x. The card runs cooler(And also has much better reference cooling), has better hardware in terms of reliability and longevity, and better software support and drivers.

Yes its basically a wash in terms of raw fps(some games favor the 770, some favor the 280x)but that's just not telling the big picture. Nvidia cards and their drivers as a whole just give a better overall experience with less screen artifacting and less odd bugs. Its been that way consistently for over a decade now.

Unless the OP is planning on doing one of those worthless mining rig setups, he is better off with an Nvidia product IMO if the focus is on games, stability and long term reliability/support/longevity.

We know you'd take nVidia over AMD. If you are going to list things as fact you need some kind of citation. Your opinion is not fact, it's just your opinion.

1) Fully refined and mature 770? Tahiti has been out longer. It's the original 28nm GPU. While that in and of itself doesn't make it better, I don't know how you can come to the conclusion that somehow GK104 is more mature and refined.

2) Nobody is discussing reference designs.

3) Show me where the BoP is superior on the 770 DCII than the 280X DCII. AFAIK, the hardware is of identical quality.

4) Better drivers is purely subjective. Both companies have excellent driver support. Both companies have failings as well. If you don't know that, then you haven't really been paying attention.

5) repeating the drivers doesn't make it any more true. The fact that you say for over decade shows that you haven't been paying attention.

6) Mining hasn't even been mentioned. Why even bring it up. If the OP is interested in mining there's a thread he can go to and decide for himself whether or not it's worthless. Just more of you not paying attention to the OP and inserting your own opinions.

7) Both companies offer reliable products and long term support.

I always wonder why people need to resort to FUD slinging when defending their favorite brand?
 

bergami

Member
Apr 15, 2012
110
0
76
Guys, let's get back to my question and forget all this stuff about Nvidia vs AMD, that's not the point.

As I said before, I know 770 is a bit better than 280X on frames in most games (except on those focused for AMD), but that's not the point and not the question.

The question is:

2GB VRAM still worth for upcoming games?

It seems fifty-fifty for while

Anything beyond $350 is out of my reach and I do not intend to mine coins.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
I have 2GB and have no worries. My FPS is fine in all games. I am on SLI but the limitation is horsepower, not vram at this point.
 

-slash-

Senior member
Jan 21, 2014
361
1
41
Guys, let's get back to my question and forget all this stuff about Nvidia vs AMD, that's not the point.

As I said before, I know 770 is a bit better than 280X on frames in most games (except on those focused for AMD), but that's not the point and not the question.

The question is:

2GB VRAM still worth for upcoming games?

It seems fifty-fifty for while

Anything beyond $350 is out of my reach and I do not intend to mine coins.

Yes it is worth it for upcoming games...

...not as much at that price point. The 760 and 770 4gb are great cards, but dont have the horsepower a 780 does to push the graphics needing the 2gb+. Buying a 4gb 760 or 770 now and then adding another card in the future for SLI would be the best path at your price point. That or hunt around for a 780 on the cheap, I just got my GHz for $400.
 

bergami

Member
Apr 15, 2012
110
0
76
Yes it is worth it for upcoming games...

...not as much at that price point. The 760 and 770 4gb are great cards, but dont have the horsepower a 780 does to push the graphics needing the 2gb+. Buying a 4gb 760 or 770 now and then adding another card in the future for SLI would be the best path at your price point. That or hunt around for a 780 on the cheap, I just got my GHz for $400.

If you got it at $400 I take off my hat for you, you paid really little for an amazing card. But in the stores I am looking, it's nearly $500
 

-slash-

Senior member
Jan 21, 2014
361
1
41
If you got it at $400 I take off my hat for you, you paid really little for an amazing card. But in the stores I am looking, it's nearly $500

I have a line on another one for $400 as well They are used though.
 

Morbus

Senior member
Apr 10, 2009
998
0
0
You guys are crazy. 2GB+ of VRAM usage on a stock game?! That may happen on the next game from Crytek or something like that, but I don't think anybody is ready to release games that you can't play on cards that go for 300USD TODAY. It's completely impossible, looking at what we've had over the years.

At any given time, a 200USD graphics card can play 99% of the top games at maximum settings on 1080p. You may want to spend more than 200USD because you may want to keep running games at max settings for a while, so you need to account for its depreciation.

Also, a 4GB GTX760 is a total waste of money. No way the card can use that much VRAM on a 256bit bus. It's like buying loads of slow-ass RAM...
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
OTOH, 1GB is the common denominator, so of course it's going to run fine in 1GB VRAM, too. Nothing will be unplayable in 1GB at 1080P, much less 2GB at 1080P, for some time. To do so would mean alienating customers.

but for how long? 2 gb vram will become the basic requirement in some time. not a year from now but what about 3 years?

Consoles just lower graphics and features over its lifespan. A PC with a HD7850 already performs like the consoles. And this time consoles are even weaker graphcis wise than last release.

yes but they have more power and run 64 bit code now. this means that the pc versions now have a lot more potential that can be tapped than before. the 64 bit code is very promising as now games can run more than 3.1 gb ram.

Exactly. A lot of the mods make improvements to the original game.

but the base game code is still there. until a open gl game framework is made like open morrowind that uses the base data files there will always be horrible performance.

Edit: Further reading shows the mod I use "Skyrim HD" is fine and does not need optimization.

which other mods are fine?

3 years? Better to be safe then sorry.

agree

We know you'd take nVidia over AMD. If you are going to list things as fact you need some kind of citation. Your opinion is not fact, it's just your opinion. 1) Fully refined and mature 770? Tahiti has been out longer. It's the original 28nm GPU. While that in and of itself doesn't make it better, I don't know how you can come to the conclusion that somehow GK104 is more mature and refined. 2) Nobody is discussing reference designs. 3) Show me where the BoP is superior on the 770 DCII than the 280X DCII. AFAIK, the hardware is of identical quality. 4) Better drivers is purely subjective. Both companies have excellent driver support. Both companies have failings as well. If you don't know that, then you haven't really been paying attention. 5) repeating the drivers doesn't make it any more true. The fact that you say for over decade shows that you haven't been paying attention. 6) Mining hasn't even been mentioned. Why even bring it up. If the OP is interested in mining there's a thread he can go to and decide for himself whether or not it's worthless. Just more of you not paying attention to the OP and inserting your own opinions. 7) Both companies offer reliable products and long term support. I always wonder why people need to resort to FUD slinging when defending their favorite brand?

the only thing that seems like it might be different is driver support and crossfire. honestly i think the single card versions run fine with amd drivers. if he is going to run linux that might be a problem according to some people.

2GB VRAM still worth for upcoming games?

to run at basic and moderate settings? yes. to run at higher settings? for now but that will likely change in the next three years.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
Also, a 4GB GTX760 is a total waste of money. No way the card can use that much VRAM on a 256bit bus. It's like buying loads of slow-ass RAM...

my skyrim is maxing my asus 270x. i thought about a 4 gb version but people said that the 270x was too slow to use that much ram. now i am at 95 gpu usage and using 1900 to 2000 mb of vram. was thinking about overclocking form the start but would 4 gb of vram done more for me. the 4gb was not as good as my asus but both would have been overclocked
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
You guys are crazy. 2GB+ of VRAM usage on a stock (em. added) game?!
No to the bolded. Those publishers that may actively support more, of which Crytek would be a prime candidate, will do so with GPU-punishing ultra presets, made to show off the tech more than be played (but have a few playable options within, if you turn down whatever makes it so slow), and/or free DLC graphics packs (actually, hasn't Crytek done both of these, already?). For stock games, there are so few customers over 2GB, and most of those by accident (in that it was convenient for AMD, to balance their 384-bit wide RAM), that it would be foolish to not optimize for the common cases of older midrange and current low-end 1GB cards, and current and near-future midrange and up 2GB cards.

While there's hope VRAM use will increase from new consoles raising the bar, there's a lot more they could use that RAM for, too. The main case for >2GB single cards is increasing the texture and/or model sizes over what the game devs used, to improve upon what they had done within their schedules, budgets, and technical constraints (including total installer/installed size, and system RAM used while playing), because there are awesome people out there able and willing to do that, to make a good game experience even better (especially in the case of CRPGs, where it improves the immersiveness, AKA ability to suspend disbelief just a bit, and get sucked in).
 
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