2nd grade math rant. what ever happend to just teaching math????

[halik]

Originally posted by: her209
Wow... no wonder kids end up on MySpace.

yeah... why not come up with some dumb ass nomenclature and distant physical representations when things like money or even pure numbers would suffice.

$1000 bill
$100 bill
$10 bill

Bob has 3 thousand dollar bills, 2 hundreds and 5 tens... how much money does he have ?

 

[purbeast0]

in that first link you post, it clearly states what the hell skinnies, flats, and bits are.

however this doesn't look like 2nd grade stuff. it's basically teaching algebrae in the 2nd grade. it's basically saying X = Y, Y + 5 = ?

but yah, at 2nd grade, that crap is way too confusing lol.

 

[jakedeez]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
in that first link you post, it clearly states what the hell skinnies, flats, and bits are.

however this doesn't look like 2nd grade stuff. it's basically teaching algebrae in the 2nd grade. it's basically saying X = Y, Y + 5 = ?

but yah, at 2nd grade, that crap is way too confusing lol.

That is the point, its not too confusing, the kid is getting it. WTG Lance.

 

[Hoober]

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: BrownTown
Well, now I understand what these all mean since I remember seeing the blocks when my mom was a math teacher. I think the point is just that is allows you to quantify an abstract concept like numbers into a physical entity such as blocks. I guess it has a use in so far as it is EXTREMELY important in math to understand that every usefull representation and calculation we do needs to be referenced back to the physical world. Having said that, I would just hope you learn the basics at the same time since an abstract type excersize doesn't help you when you don't even know the concrete numerical manipulations.

I can't really remeber what all i did at that age. I know that in first grade we learned long division and multiplication and had to memorize the mulitiples of each number 12 or lower with the others (IE: 12*5, 5*9 ...) Can't remember what we did in second grade, but whatever it was once you have the basic operations (additon, subtraction, multiplication, division) down than a huge class of problems opens up to you. So I'd guess it was simply doing problems with these operation while increasing the difficulty. (word problems were always my enemy at that age).

you learned long division and multiplication in the first grade? wow that doesnt start for most kids until 4th grade.

I remember that we had to have our multiplication tables learned up to 12 x 12 in early 3rd grade, I'm pretty sure we had done long division by then as well. That was advanced program though.

Yeah, we were doing multiplication and division in 3rd grade, too. This was in Indiana 20 years ago.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: purbeast0
in that first link you post, it clearly states what the hell skinnies, flats, and bits are.

however this doesn't look like 2nd grade stuff. it's basically teaching algebrae in the 2nd grade. it's basically saying X = Y, Y + 5 = ?

but yah, at 2nd grade, that crap is way too confusing lol.

yes but in my second link with the scan of his homework, would you know what the hell those are when your kid comes up and ask you for help? like i said my wife and I have never seen that kind of program before and neither have our two older kids who went to the same elementary school.

it was a little frustrating and time consuming trying to teach ourselves that concept with no background and limited research resources even on the web.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Hate to say it, but it made sense to me immediately.

A "bit" is a representation of 1
A "skinny" is a representation of 10
A "flat" is a representation of 100
A "pack" is a representation of 1000

Logically it operates on the same principle as the base-ten system, except that this provides a visual means of explaining it.

I'm not sure I think this is the best method, but it does get the general theory across rather elegantly.

That said, I tend to be hyper-rational and over-logical, so my understanding this may simply be a function of an abnormal mind.

ZV

I find it extremely complicated, and poorly thought out given the age group.

Numbers themselves (and systems of math) are abstract representations of concrete processes. To create another level of abstraction by assigning a word (which has a subjective and abstract meaning outside it's use in math) to a concept seems to go one step too far given the level of psychological development.

I'm all for teaching to different learning styles and can understand using visual representations in a classroom setting, but to expect kids to carry those lessons home where no one has a clue wtf they're talking about is just asking for trouble.

 

[Malak]

Originally posted by: wazzledoozle
Dumb. This may speed up learning in the short term, but I can see it causing harm later on when they try to apply these "techniques" to higher level math.

You don't apply those techniques in higher math. Obviously having never used it, you don't understand the application. There's nothing wrong with it, I excelled in math beyond all my classmates and I used this method at that age.

 

[Extelleron]

It makes perfect sense to me, but I can't see why you would teach something in this way. Way back in 2nd or 3rd grade we used to use "1's" "10's" and "100's" blocks, but we didn't call them skinnies and bits and flats. Sounds like something that might be confusing for a little kid.

 

[bobert]

Originally posted by: Hoober

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: Citrix

you learned long division and multiplication in the first grade? wow that doesnt start for most kids until 4th grade.

I remember that we had to have our multiplication tables learned up to 12 x 12 in early 3rd grade, I'm pretty sure we had done long division by then as well. That was advanced program though.

Yeah, we were doing multiplication and division in 3rd grade, too. This was in Indiana 20 years ago.

In Texas 10 years ago, we were taught multiplication, long division, and had to memorize the multiplication tables in 2nd grade.

 

[beemercer]

Reminds me of Mathland; some asinine program I had to use from 1st to 5th grade. We used little blocks to represent numbers becasue apparently "136" was incomprehensible to us, so instead it was a "100" unit block, 3 "10" unit sticks and 6 "1" unit individual cubes.

 

[2Xtreme21]

Originally posted by: ungsunghero

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
At least it's not that new-fangled multiplication thing they're teaching kids now. They draw out some kind of grid and put the two multipliers on opposite sides of little boxes or something... I don't even know.

You're referring to lattice multiplication.

I just tried multiplying 1337x1337 and it took me about 10 times longer drawing out the damn box than it did for me to line them up and do it traditionally. I can't believe they're teaching kids to do it this way now.

 

[dawnbug]

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21

Originally posted by: ungsunghero

Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
At least it's not that new-fangled multiplication thing they're teaching kids now. They draw out some kind of grid and put the two multipliers on opposite sides of little boxes or something... I don't even know.

You're referring to lattice multiplication.

I just tried multiplying 1337x1337 and it took me about 10 times longer drawing out the damn box than it did for me to line them up and do it traditionally. I can't believe they're teaching kids to do it this way now.

The kids in the district here are learning multiplication in a really cool way-- they divide the number into different units based on their place value and multiply it all in their head that way. I tutored kids for a semester for part of my elementary ed program and these kids were doing math in their head that took me a lot longer to do by hand.

This lattice multiplication looks weird and confusing, though.

 

[randomlinh]

wtf, that's what those things are called!?!?!? When I clicked on the HW I was lost... but after reading the description... wow. I used those all the time. I had no idea what they were called... if I remember correctly.. we called them ones, tens, hundreds.. heh.

 

[littleprince]

I've never felt parents should do homework for their kids anyways...
Were not testing kids anymore, we're testing how much effor their kids put into their homework.

Thats why dropout rates in University are so high, parents arent necessarily there to do their kids hwk anymore.
Let your kid Google it.

 

[FilmCamera]

wtf, that's confusing me right now....I can't imagine that would have helped me in math in any way.

I've seen some other homework that my friends kids asked me for help with once and it was such crap.

 

[FilmCamera]

Originally posted by: Martin
They're just trying to teach them base 10 number system using candy. I can't imagine regular terms being any easier for them to understand.

1. 4 bits, 15 skinnies, 11 flats, 1 pack - 2254
2. 12 bits, 11 skinnies, 11 flats - 1222
3. 21 bits, 11 skinnies, 3 flats - 3131

This right there shows the problem with their system. Why do they have 11 flats? Wouldn't a better way to express that be:

4 bits, 5 skinnies, 2 flats, 2 packs? But then it's "too easy" maybe? Because it's just the number backwards. Which is retarded.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: KillerCharlie
Damn.... all the policy/curriculum designers who make teachers teach this crap should be fired...

fixed.

 

[FilmCamera]

Originally posted by: BrownTown
Well, now I understand what these all mean since I remember seeing the blocks when my mom was a math teacher. I think the point is just that is allows you to quantify an abstract concept like numbers into a physical entity such as blocks. I guess it has a use in so far as it is EXTREMELY important in math to understand that every usefull representation and calculation we do needs to be referenced back to the physical world. Having said that, I would just hope you learn the basics at the same time since an abstract type excersize doesn't help you when you don't even know the concrete numerical manipulations.

I can't really remeber what all i did at that age. I know that in first grade we learned long division and multiplication and had to memorize the mulitiples of each number 12 or lower with the others (IE: 12*5, 5*9 ...) Can't remember what we did in second grade, but whatever it was once you have the basic operations (additon, subtraction, multiplication, division) down than a huge class of problems opens up to you. So I'd guess it was simply doing problems with these operation while increasing the difficulty. (word problems were always my enemy at that age).

Shens. 1st grade is awfully early for long division/multiplication. I remember I did that in 3rd grade.

And how are numbers an abstract concept? If you are talking Pi or e or something, okay that's more abstract. But 2254 abstract? That's a pretty straightforward number.

 

[UncleWai]

When I was tutoring in my university, I had students needed to write out the multiplication of 198 x 100 to figure out what it's equal to. I think it's really important to get the base-ten system idea across to kids early. However these bits, skinnies, flats just make thing more complicated.

 

[cubby1223]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Hate to say it, but it made sense to me immediately.

A "bit" is a representation of 1
A "skinny" is a representation of 10
A "flat" is a representation of 100
A "pack" is a representation of 1000

Logically it operates on the same principle as the base-ten system, except that this provides a visual means of explaining it.

I'm not sure I think this is the best method, but it does get the general theory across rather elegantly.

That said, I tend to be hyper-rational and over-logical, so my understanding this may simply be a function of an abnormal mind.

But if you didn't have that lesson plan defining the terms, there would be absolutely no way you could figure out the homework assignment.

 

[Xecuter]

I hate curriculums where they turn math class into Language Arts.
Explain in a 10 page essay how you found your answer...

2nd, wth is a skinny?

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: tfinch2
Multiplication and Division isn't taught until 4th grade now?

I had that down by the end of second grade.

 

[animalia]

i did my senior service project with 5th graders and, boy was it tough teaching them math.

 

[BrownTown]

Originally posted by: FilmCamera

Originally posted by: BrownTown
Well, now I understand what these all mean since I remember seeing the blocks when my mom was a math teacher. I think the point is just that is allows you to quantify an abstract concept like numbers into a physical entity such as blocks. I guess it has a use in so far as it is EXTREMELY important in math to understand that every usefull representation and calculation we do needs to be referenced back to the physical world. Having said that, I would just hope you learn the basics at the same time since an abstract type excersize doesn't help you when you don't even know the concrete numerical manipulations.

I can't really remeber what all i did at that age. I know that in first grade we learned long division and multiplication and had to memorize the mulitiples of each number 12 or lower with the others (IE: 12*5, 5*9 ...) Can't remember what we did in second grade, but whatever it was once you have the basic operations (additon, subtraction, multiplication, division) down than a huge class of problems opens up to you. So I'd guess it was simply doing problems with these operation while increasing the difficulty. (word problems were always my enemy at that age).

Shens. 1st grade is awfully early for long division/multiplication. I remember I did that in 3rd grade.

And how are numbers an abstract concept? If you are talking Pi or e or something, okay that's more abstract. But 2254 abstract? That's a pretty straightforward number.

No, its true, I remember comming back the summer after first grade and I had forgot how to do long division over the summer and had to relearn it at the begining of second grade. My school switched locations after second grade, and I know it was in the old location, so it has to be first grade. Also, I switched schools from preschool to first grade, and remember it was my first year at the new school that I learned long division. I went to a REALLY good elementry school, for example comming into middle school in 7th grade I took the SAT and got an 1130, my twin brother also took it and got a 1460. The average (in seventh grade) of the people who came from my elementry school was ~1100, that is well above average for high school seniors (this is when it was out of 1600, and 1000 is supposed to be average).

 

[dabuddha]

Wow that is complete and utter horse sh!t.

Not tooting my own horn or anything but I learned math the old fashioned way and I did real well in all of my math classes.