3,767 dead :( (small edit)

[Czar]

Professor Marc Herold at the University of New Hampshire did a very thorough report on how many civilians have died in Afghanistan from October 7th to December 10th.

A news report of this.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,622000,00.html

The report itself. (its 3mb)
http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mwherold/Afghanistan.doc


edit.
I would like to say how sorry I am how this thread has turned out. Instead of people trying to duscuss those deaths, how the media has been reporting those deaths and how we as the public should react, this thread has instead turned into a flame fest where one side is posting how they are concerned about this and then another side accuses them of being anti american and saying that this report is all a lie just because it is a "estimated" number, then there is another side that tries to defend the first side. With that this thread turned into a flamefest.
This discussion is not serving any purpose except make people angry so if there is any mod reading this then I suggest this thread to be locked.
I´m sad how this turned out

 

[Sigurd]

Oh boo hoo.

 

Now post the study on how many people were slaughtered by the Taliban.

 

[ToBeMe]

<< Now post the study on how many people were slaughtered by the Taliban. >>


In this instance, I have to agree........by all reports it seems as though the Taliban themselves were quite efficient at eliminating citizens. At any rate, they are hopefully now gone and the result will hopefully bode well for all Afghani citizens!

 

[Pastore]

thats too bad... but we have a mission and we have to complete it

 

[ravanux]

<< Oh boo hoo. >>


Come on guys. Its still people being killed.

 

[Doggiedog]

Maybe they are suffering less now that they are with their .....what is 3,767*70 virgins?

 

[Pennstate]

This is nothing compared to the number of afghans died during their civil wars. Czar, I don't hear Afghans telling us that we shouldn't have gotten involved

 

[Bluga]

ya seals suck.

 

[burnedout]

I will not lose one second of sleep because of it.

 

[Czar]

Pennstate,
No one is saying that the peopel of Afghanistan doesnt want to get rid of the taliban. This is just a report which reports death of those who have died because of the air strikes. The report excludes all Taliban deaths, all NA deaths, all deaths because of hunger and all deaths because of injury.

The reason I posted this is because it seems that major medias in the US and many in Europe arent reporting this. Here is a quote from the report.



<< Little mention made in the U.S mainstream press. Even better, seven weeks into the war, a reporter for the Los Angeles Times could write without shame,

"?..although estimates are still largely guesses, some experts believe that more than 1'000
Taliban and opposition troops have probably died in the fighting, along with at least dozens
of civilians."" >>



This is the problem, how the media report the news.

 

[Czar]

and to add,
because how the media reports it we have idiotic attitutes like these
Oh boo hoo.
Maybe they are suffering less now that they are with their .....what is 3,767*70 virgins?
I will not lose one second of sleep because of it.
These are the same people who asked for the worlds support when their citizens died, the people who asked the world to cry with them.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

That's all? If so, then that is commendable. Given the scale of our operation in Afghanistan, this number proves that we have tried to limit civilian casualties. This is particularly impressive given the fact that the Taliban has hid in civilian areas.

Given what the Taliban did, and given the danger it posed to the civilized world at large, these losses are minimal.

 

[CraigRT]

<< Given what the Taliban did, and given the danger it posed to the civilized world at large, these losses are minimal. >>



That sounds reasonable to me!

 

[Doggiedog]

<These are the same people who asked for the worlds support when their citizens died, the people who asked the world to cry with them. >

We didn't ask for the world's support in crying for us. We asked the world's support in kicking those @sshole's @sses. And an @ss kicking is what they got.

 

[Czar]

Another big problem which is reported there.



<< Village elders of Kama Ado, fifty kilometers southwest of Jalalabad, had trekked down the mountains on Thursday, November 29th to meet the governor of Nangarhar in Jalalabad. They pleaded with him to stop the American night time attacks around their village which had killed their livestock and destroyed their water supply, but none had lost their lives.

At 3.a.m, Saturday morning, as part of the intense bombing campaign of Tora Bora, U.S B-52 bombers made four passes over Kama Ado, dropping twenty-five 1'000 lb. JDAM MK-83 bombs, each 10 feet long. Kama Ado is a ten hour hike away from Tora Bora. Khalil Rahman survived because he had gone outside to urinate when a bomb struck his home, killing his 12 relatives. Sprina, a 50 year old widow, wounded in the attack, lost 38 of her 40 relatives. Hassan and other villagers say that in the following day, the saw only 40 of the 250-300 residents of Kama Ado. Kamal Huddin said that 156 of the 300 residents of Kama Ado had perished.

A second nearby village Khan-e-Mairjuddin, was bombed a few hours earlier with a likely death toll of 100-200, with 50 confirmed deaths by Saturday morning. And a third village, Zaner Khel, also reported being hit with scores of civilian casualties, when U.S warplanes bombed the nearby house of a minor Taliban official.

Journalists who visited Kama Ado on Saturday reported huge bomb craters, debris of houses spread over two hillsides with children's shoes, dead cows and sheep, and the tail fin of a U.S MK-83 bomb. Locals said scores of people had been killed in three bombed villages.

The response of the Pentagon and Command Central on Saturday evening?

"It just did not happen." >>

 

[kami]

Czar, you won't receive any sympathy on this board. It's made up of at least 80% Americans, half of which probably wouldn't care if Afghanistan was nuked.

I had no idea so many innocent civilians had died. The media always mentions "dozens" like you said. Maybe they should be more specific with the "300+ dozen" number.

I support America's anti-terrorist campaign 100%, but this is a real shame so many have died. Yes American lost a lot of people, but is it necessary to add to that number? Evil begets evil I guess.

 

[Elledan]

One group of Primates killing members of another group out of revenge. How noble.

 

[burnedout]

I will not lose one second of sleep because of it.
These are the same people who asked for the worlds support when their citizens died, the people who asked the world to cry with them.

Wrong damn answer, Czar. Wrong answer. SHOW ME WHERE THE HELL I ASKED FOR WORLD SUPPORT. SHOW ME DAMMIT!!!!

You can't.

Here you go again with more posts that are of a negative tone towards American policy. Typical Czar. I see YOU say very, very little about the Americans who died. But goddammit, if some bleeding heart, socialist newspaper in Europe prints anything which may even bring the slightest bit of discredit to MY country, damnit, Czar will sure as hell link it.

Czar, let me tell you something son. Go out on a damn mission and help out with humanitarian aid like I have. Go out and put your life on the line like I have. You can't, and you never will. You are just a damn, sniveling little blowhard on a rock in the North Atlantic.

 

[Capn]

Reading the first few pages of that report I have no more faith in his numbers than the U.S. government's. He does not even attempt to hide his blatent bias. This is propaganda, not a nuetral reporting of numbers.

Statistics lie and liars use statistics, who's right? I don't know.

Professor's opinion concerning the war:
"The American Afghan War---historically the Fourth Afghan War---is anything but a 'just war' as James Carroll has adroitly pointed out"

 

[Texmaster]

<< Professor Marc Herold at the University of New Hampshire did a very thorough report on how many civilians have died in Afghanistan from October 7th to December 10th.

A news report of this.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,622000,00.html

The report itself. (its 3mb)
http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mwherold/Afghanistan.doc >>




Czar, you are the most Hate filled Anti American person on this board.

Did you even READ the article?

Of course, Herold's total is only an estimate

BOOM. Czar you are a liar and a coward posting articles with estimates without a SHRED of proof.

This Anti American propaganda rivals the Taliban.

 

[Czar]

kami,
so very true
this tells alot

burnedout,
I was not naming you, I was generaly naming people, your response just fit right in the picture of the group I´m talking about. If I would have meant you I would have put your name in the post.

 

[Mday]

well, you cant blame the taliban for every death...

i mean there was a civil war. blame them for 90% of the deaths.

 

[kami]

<< if some bleeding heart, socialist newspaper in Europe prints anything which may even bring the slightest bit of discredit to MY country >>


#1 the "bleeding heart socialists" are helping in the anti-terrorist campaign
#2 an AMERICAN wrote the report.

calm down.

 

[Doggiedog]

It was only a matter of time before Texmaster got a whiff of this thread.

Go get him Cowboy!