3% yield rate for the R520, dont know how true this is tho...

[Munky]

Originally posted by: Rollo
Wow.

Sort of puts a different light on all those "Wait for the R520" posts, doesn't it?

They can't launch 24/32 at 3% or less, and I have to wonder how 16 pipes will do, 700MHz or no.

ATI is hurting.

And rollo is jumping for joy at the news... :roll:

Having a 3% yield rate after a THIRD tape out is so unlikely, I can pretty much dismiss this "news" as a rumor. The worst that can happen is if the 32 pipe cores get poor yields, they can release them with only 24 pipes enabled and still remain competitive. If this new architecture is designed by competent engineers, even a 700mhz 16 pipe card will give the 7800gtx a good run for it's money, but I doubt the yields will be that bad.

 

[Drayvn]

Originally posted by: munky

Originally posted by: Rollo
Wow.

Sort of puts a different light on all those "Wait for the R520" posts, doesn't it?

They can't launch 24/32 at 3% or less, and I have to wonder how 16 pipes will do, 700MHz or no.

ATI is hurting.

And rollo is jumping for joy at the news... :roll:

Having a 3% yield rate after a THIRD tape out is so unlikely, I can pretty much dismiss this "news" as a rumor. The worst that can happen is if the 32 pipe cores get poor yields, they can release them with only 24 pipes enabled and still remain competitive. If this new architecture is designed by competent engineers, even a 700mhz 16 pipe card will give the 7800gtx a good run for it's money, but I doubt the yields will be that bad.

Thanks for the reply, dont know to much on tape outs, so cheers for the info.

And everyone, dont flame please. Well do flame if you want to make this thread about 2000 posts long...

 

[IamTHEsnake]

Originally posted by: biostud

Originally posted by: Rollo
Wow.

Sort of puts a different light on all those "Wait for the R520" posts, doesn't it?

They can't launch 24/32 at 3% or less, and I have to wonder how 16 pipes will do, 700MHz or no.

ATI is hurting.

yay! lets accept rumors as facts

Good answer.

3% is an outright lie.

 

[Hard Ball]

Yeah, maybe it's a typo somewhere, 13% for the 32 piped version would make more sense. All this would mean is probably that ATI will be selling the 24 pipe R520 until mid-gen refresh next spring.

 

[BenSkywalker]

I find it unlikely that ATI has shipped hundreds of Xenos chips for the Xbox360 dev kits, but can only get a 3% yield on the same TSMC process for a 24-pipe R520.

What does ATi have to do with getting R500 chips out the door? I didn't think MS answered to ATi on what they were going to do with their chips? MS will pay for dozens of tape outs if need be- they have an extremely different business model for the R500 then ATi does for the R520. One is going to be hitting its financial sweet spot in five years, the other will be a distant memory of an era past

Also- why is everyone so focused on this being a 32 pipe part? Look at everything ATi has to do with this part and really take a good look at the situation and ask yourselves if you see such a large increase in features coinciding with a doubling of functional units and a ~30% bump in clock speeds? Remember that ATi has their B team on this design, the R600 should be the next core from their A team.

 

[ZimZum]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
Remember that ATi has their B team on this design, the R600 should be the next core from their A team.

They actually have 3 teams.

Silicon Valley-- Artx
Orlando-- Lockheed Martin's Real3d
Marlboro-- the B team as you call it

According to the CEO, beginning with R600 they will no longer work separately because its inefficient to have 3 engineering teams basically working completely separate from one another.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Impossible, these cards would cost $10,000 a piece. There ar'nt to many accountants gonna even let them begin at those yeilds. BIG grain of salt.

A grain of salt so big it has to be moved by a bull dozer.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: IamTHEsnake

Originally posted by: biostud

Originally posted by: Rollo
Wow.

Sort of puts a different light on all those "Wait for the R520" posts, doesn't it?

They can't launch 24/32 at 3% or less, and I have to wonder how 16 pipes will do, 700MHz or no.

ATI is hurting.

yay! lets accept rumors as facts

Good answer.

3% is an outright lie.

Strange answer unless you work at ATI. You don't know if it's 3%, so how can you call it a lie?

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Rollo
Wow.

Sort of puts a different light on all those "Wait for the R520" posts, doesn't it?

They can't launch 24/32 at 3% or less, and I have to wonder how 16 pipes will do, 700MHz or no.

ATI is hurting.

Wow.

Looks like yet another rumor floating around.

 

[gsellis]

Consider that The Inquirer pretty much pegged the source of the bad yields to nVidia sources...

Come on folks, your bias is showing.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: fierydemise

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: TheSnowman
I'm pretty sure the "ATI is hurting" dispite the fact that the rumor is totally unsubstantiated is what started it.

And I'm pretty sure you're wrong. With totally disregarding this rumor, ATI is obviously hurting. Not in sales. But getting their next line out the door. And the topic of the conversation is the R520 and nothing prior.

Fine ATI is hurting getting R520 out the door, in the grand scheme of things who cares. The thing is us enthusiasts make up (I'd guess) less then 5% of all computer users, most people don't have a clue about R520 and don't care, ATI is going to make their money on the previous generations even after R520 is out. Sure it looks great for nVidia to have the 7800GTX available in large numbers but most gamers are satisfied with their 9600s or 6600GTs. My point is that sure R520 isn't out but that only really matters to us enthusiasts who want something to talk about.

I agree with you. Except for one thing. High end parts sell low/mid end parts. Otherwise, neither company would need to produce such monster cards. Having the best product out there helps sell the rest of the company inventory.

 

[Genx87]

I'd be real surprised if the NV30 was being shipped as a volume product with 10-20% yields.

I think the profit yield is around 60-70%. A company like AMD and Intel are probably getting over 95% success rate.

 

[RaynorWolfcastle]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

I find it unlikely that ATI has shipped hundreds of Xenos chips for the Xbox360 dev kits, but can only get a 3% yield on the same TSMC process for a 24-pipe R520.

What does ATi have to do with getting R500 chips out the door? I didn't think MS answered to ATi on what they were going to do with their chips? MS will pay for dozens of tape outs if need be- they have an extremely different business model for the R500 then ATi does for the R520. One is going to be hitting its financial sweet spot in five years, the other will be a distant memory of an era past

Also- why is everyone so focused on this being a 32 pipe part? Look at everything ATi has to do with this part and really take a good look at the situation and ask yourselves if you see such a large increase in features coinciding with a doubling of functional units and a ~30% bump in clock speeds? Remember that ATi has their B team on this design, the R600 should be the next core from their A team.

Yes, it's a different architecture, using different parts but
A) A 24 pipe R520 die probably has a similar transistor count as the R500 that chip has a rough equivalent of 24 pipes (I know, I know, different architecture).

B) We don't know what the 3% yield refers to. Maybe the 3% yield refers to dies with 24 pipes passing QC at 700 MHz.

C) With both A and B in mind and remembering that they're both developed on the SAME process. This means that they both use the same transistors, the same geometries, etc. So either the R520 has a huge architectural flaw or this is just what it seems to be, a rumour.

If I were a betting man, I'd say that the 3% yield rate doesn't refer to functional dies, but rather to hitting some internal speed grade target that ATI set itself. So maybe only 3% of dies pass QC as XT PE chips, whereas 10% pass as XT chips, and 20% pass as Pro chips, 30% pass as Non-Pro and the rest have an actual defect that requires some pipelines be disabled.

Anyhow, this is all just speculation at this point, let's see how all this turns out.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Facts about R520:

1. It' isn't available to purchase yet.

It's amazing the breadth of discussion we have given this is our only piece of factual information. There's probably more Rollo-generated threads on this topic alone than I have digits on my hands (and I assure you, I have all ten still intact ).

 

[KeepItRed]

I still dont get why were talking about an unknown product. Too much crap going around such as 24 pipes, 32 pipes when we really know NOTHING! Obviously it's going to compete (outperform) the 7800 series aswell.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: KeepItRed
I still dont get why were talking about an unknown product. Too much crap going around such as 24 pipes, 32 pipes when we really know NOTHING! Obviously it's going to compete (outperform) the 7800 series aswell.

The only thing "obvious" is that you have no way of knowing whatsoever how the r520 will fare against current products.

 

[Insomniak]

My sources tell me R720 will be faster than R520.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: KeepItRed
I still dont get why were talking about an unknown product. Too much crap going around such as 24 pipes, 32 pipes when we really know NOTHING! Obviously it's going to compete (outperform) the 7800 series aswell.

The only thing "obvious" is that you have no way of knowing whatsoever how the r520 will fare against current products.

Nor do you. Why are your posts always so agressive and contfontational? If you'd said 'we' don't know what the performance will be like, I think fewer people would be at your throat all the time.

Although frankly I think you crave the attention .

 

[AntiStatic]

Originally posted by: KeepItRed
I still dont get why were talking about an unknown product. Too much crap going around such as 24 pipes, 32 pipes when we really know NOTHING! Obviously it's going to compete (outperform) the 7800 series aswell.

Hypocrisy at it's finest lol

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: KeepItRed
I still dont get why were talking about an unknown product. Too much crap going around such as 24 pipes, 32 pipes when we really know NOTHING! Obviously it's going to compete (outperform) the 7800 series aswell.

The only thing "obvious" is that you have no way of knowing whatsoever how the r520 will fare against current products.

yes you can. Given the circumstances, ATI's delay in releasing a new flagship most likely means it'll be faster than nVidia's.

It isn't certain but the odds are in favor of ATI coming out on top. Whether or not it'll be worth it is to be seen. If you could have had the GTX for a few months before the R520, then its poorer performance won't be hard to swallow.

If it isn't a clear winner then it will be looked upon as a failure, just like the 5800U which was slower, hotter, and louder than the 9700Pro, then there was the added waiting time.

nVidia was able to make such a big mistake, ATI certainly can too, but it just doesn't seem as likely for history to repeat itself in such a way, because you learn from it.

 

[Insomniak]

No really....R720 will be faster than R520 he says. And he's in the know, and whatnot.

 

[BenSkywalker]

A) A 24 pipe R520 die probably has a similar transistor count as the R500 that chip has a rough equivalent of 24 pipes (I know, I know, different architecture).

Remember the daughter die of the R500 contains logic along with the eDRAM.

B) We don't know what the 3% yield refers to. Maybe the 3% yield refers to dies with 24 pipes passing QC at 700 MHz.

I'm completely disregarding yield rates reported in the above article- I simply think it isn't terribly fair to be under the impression that ATi is going to move to 90nm while doubling their transistor count and increasing their clock rate by ~30%.

C) With both A and B in mind and remembering that they're both developed on the SAME process. This means that they both use the same transistors, the same geometries, etc. So either the R520 has a huge architectural flaw or this is just what it seems to be, a rumour.

But it is dual dies for the R500 and also the R500 works on a very different economic field.

Anyhow, this is all just speculation at this point, let's see how all this turns out.

I agree, but I think ATi faithful are setting themselves up for an enormous let down particularly those that are planning on a 32pipe board @700MHZ- that is quite unreasonable given all of the features they need to add to the R520.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: Insomniak
No really....R720 will be faster than R520 he says. And he's in the know, and whatnot.

My sources tell me an R720 won't be out if ATI is collapsing...

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

I agree, but I think ATi faithful are setting themselves up for an enormous let down particularly those that are planning on a 32pipe board @700MHZ- that is quite unreasonable given all of the features they need to add to the R520.

that and a 32 pipe processor at 700 mhz is a complete waste. even if the engineers did design it someone would have to realize that would be like putting an F1 engine into a go kart. nothing is available that could take advantage of that kind of power.

that isn't to say they didn't design something like that with a modular design to allow them to put into production a 'lower performance' part until the higher performance part is needed. and at that point very little extra would be needed to get the higher performance part out the door.

i wouldn't put it past ATi to start all these rumors themselves in order to keep nvidia guessing on where the 7800 ultra should come in, so as to keep as much time in the spotlight as they can.

 

[James3shin]

gotta be a typo...probably meant to say 30% yield rate.