322 Tyrants vote for the Perpetual War Act

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,645
0
76
www.facebook.com
http://www.prisonplanet.com/ron-paul-house-floor-speech-republic-almost-completely-dead.html

Any idea as to why they did this? Did they do it because they hate Americans? Or are they really dumb enough to think that it will keep us safe from terrorists, the kind that these 322 tyrants have busted their asses to create without even realizing it?

Does anyone have any plans to move to a country that isn't going to collapse within the next decade?

I need to start looking before the U.S. becomes 100% Maoist or National Socialist, or a combination of the two. It's already at least 25% there.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,251
8
0
Can we have a vote on banning you from starting new threads?

I am sure a bunch of P&N Tyrants would vote yes.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Promises, promises; Grab Dave on your way out.

Remember all the Hollywood celebrities that said they were pulling out.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
I won't pile on.

Good speech. It's definitely not the country I grew up in.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Dude, you REALLY need to stop reading PrisonPlanet and the Daily Paul. I admit, you got me the first time on this story. As it was originally constituted, this bill would have limited rather than augmented the President's power, which is why the White House threatened a veto. As it was passed, most of the controversial parts have been removed.

One thing I will say - we do need a declaration of war against al Qaeda. But it needs to be a separate, clean bill whose merits and demerits can be debated on their own.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
Who the hell actually runs prisonplanet.com?

It does not say anywhere on the website!

How can you trust anything you read there?

Is this some blog run by a wierdo?
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Who the hell actually runs prisonplanet.com?

It does not say anywhere on the website!

How can you trust anything you read there?

Is this some blog run by a wierdo?

Alex Jones, the 9/11 truther, owns it.
 

Brigandier

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2008
4,395
2
81
This bill is seriously FUBAR, if you cannot see that, you are FUBAR.

We can perform military actions wherever there are terrorists, define terrorist.

Peace is war, I guess.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
Alex Jones, the 9/11 truther, owns it.

Mr. Jones isn't just a 9/11 Truther, he is THE Conspiracy Nut to end all conspiracy nuts. I remember watching his local show in Austin, always going on about the black helicopters, and secret government kill teams, if there's a conspiracy about something, he's into it.

If anyone is really interested int eh actual text ...

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h1540/text

Have fun with that, it's only over 1,100 pages long.
 
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NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
In your zest to crucify Anarchist420 you've made yourself deaf, dumb and blind. The reaction here is a microcosm of typical American life. Too busy with celebrity bullshit while liberty and power is taken from you. Ignorant fools!

(H.R. 1540, Sec. 1034 States:

Congress affirms that&#8212;
(1) the United States is engaged in an armed conflict with
al&#8208;Qaeda, the Taliban, and associated forces and that those
entities continue to pose a threat to the United States and
its citizens, both domestically and abroad;

(2) the President has the authority to use all
necessary and appropriate force during the current
armed conflict with al&#8208;Qaeda, the Taliban, and associated
forces pursuant to the Authorization for Use
of Military Force (Public Law 107&#8211;40; 50 U.S.C.
1541 note);
(3) the current armed conflict includes nations,
organization, and persons who&#8212;
(A) are part of, or are substantially supporting, al&#8208;Qaeda,
the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in
hostilities against the United States or its coalition
partners; or
(B) have engaged in hostilities or have directly supported
hostilities in aid of a nation, organization, or person
described in subparagraph (A); and
(4) the President&#8217;s authority pursuant to the
Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law
107&#8211;40; 50 U.S.C. 1541 note) includes the authority
to detain belligerents, including persons described in
paragraph (3), until the termination of hostilities.

"Associated forces" is what our President gets to decide for himself. Yes it has to make it through the Senate and I hope to god someone is able to lobby this section out.

Abraham Lincoln had this to say about Presidential powers for war:

WASHINGTON, February 15, 1848.

DEAR WILLIAM:--Your letter of the 29th January was received last night. Being exclusively a constitutional argument, I wish to submit some reflections upon it in the same spirit of kindness that I know actuates you. Let me first state what I understand to be your position. It is that if it shall become necessary to repel invasion, the President may, without violation of the Constitution, cross the line and invade the territory of another country, and that whether such necessity exists in any given case the President is the sole judge.

Before going further consider well whether this is or is not your position. If it is, it is a position that neither the President himself, nor any friend of his, so far as I know, has ever taken. Their only positions are--first, that the soil was ours when the hostilities commenced; and second, that whether it was rightfully ours or not, Congress had annexed it, and the President for that reason was bound to defend it; both of which are as clearly proved to be false in fact as you can prove that your house is mine. The soil was not ours, and Congress did not annex or attempt to annex it. But to return to your position. Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose, and you allow him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix any limit to his power in this respect, after having given him so much as you propose. If to-day he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him,--"I see no probability of the British invading us"; but he will say to you, "Be silent: I see it, if you don't."

The provision of the Constitution giving the war making power to Congress was dictated, as I understand it, by the following reasons: kings had always been involving and impoverishing their people in wars, pretending generally, if not always, that the good of the people was the object. This our convention understood to be the most oppressive of all kingly oppressions, and they resolved to so frame the Constitution that no one man should hold the power of bringing this oppression upon us. But your view destroys the whole matter, and places our President where kings have always stood.
Write soon again.

Yours truly,

A. LINCOLN.
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
This bill is HIGHLY dangerous, IMO, the president should not be able to do what we have done in Libya (strike a sovereign nation without provocation) without congressional approval. This basically legalizes the precedent.

If this passes and Obama vetoes it, it will make him look like Cincinnatus.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
76
This bill is HIGHLY dangerous, IMO, the president should not be able to do what we have done in Libya (strike a sovereign nation without provocation) without congressional approval. This basically legalizes the precedent.

If this passes and Obama vetoes it, it will make him look like Cincinnatus.

But he got the NobeLOL
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
We will be in perpetual war and terror nothing you can do about that at this point but surrender or kill em all.

What you guys and MSM and our elite don't understand is the mujahideen like dying more than we like living. They have endless eager recruits for martyrdom. After we leave these countries and they take over they will launch revenge attacks killing infidels in their homelands. Battle hardened, experienced attacks forcing retaliation in kind. Rise repeat perpetual war.

Watch this video if you want to understand the mindset totally foreign to you.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/kill-capture/?autoplay
 
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drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,035
1
81
Liberals (including RINOs and liberal republicans) need their war. They have to have it in order to continue siphoning away our personal liberties and freedoms.

"Wars" are justification for the government to do nearly anything. This is dangerously close to martial law.
 

syzygy

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2001
3,038
0
76
LOL, maybe your medication needs to be administered differently. Suppositories ?
 

wwswimming

Banned
Jan 21, 2006
3,702
1
0
I won't pile on.

Good speech. It's definitely not the country I grew up in.


it's not the country i grew up in either.

but i have no plans on leaving.

using laws such as _EDIT_ the Patriot Act, the US gov is not making American citizens any safer.

this is exactly the kind of harassment the United States was set up to give citizens freedom from - British troops, British banks, British bankers' taxes such as the tax on tea which inspired the famous rebellion.


though i would use the term "Soviet-ized" to describe this version of the United States government. they act as if they have authority over the land ... but very few of us have granted them any such authority.

the question is, is it our authority to grant, or their authority to assume ?

when the govenment assumes authority without the citizens' consent - that is not democracy.


EDIT - this is why i don't read f'ing Alex Jones. G*ddamn fear-mongering.

i stand by everything i said above, but NOT because of HR 1540. more because of the "Patriot" Act, the "Food Safety" Act, Obama-care, and all the other intrusions on our freedom the US gov. feels entitled to - independent of HR 1540.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=112_cong_bills&docid=f:h1540rh.txt.pdf

/\ there's HR 1540, all 920 pages of it.

i did a search for "domestic" and "CONUS". there's 3 mentions of "domestic" - one about use of C-23 airplanes, another about breeding military dogs, and another about domestic abuse involving military families.

this does not appear to be anything like the Patriot Act.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,590
7,650
136
This bill is HIGHLY dangerous, IMO, the president should not be able to do what we have done in Libya (strike a sovereign nation without provocation) without congressional approval. This basically legalizes the precedent.

If this passes and Obama vetoes it, it will make him look like Cincinnatus.

The mere notion of the warmonger Obama vetoing it is a sad and hilarious satire of who he really is.

Democrats and Republicans alike enjoy campaign rhetoric of liberty, constitutional law and limiting powers. Each to their own flavor, Dems on Bush's wars and surveillance, Reps on the Dem's welfare state. This fake towards rationality is nothing more than a campaign stump that gets its intended audience motivated to vote.

Who are they voting for, who are the leaders of both incumbent parties? Well.. since you'll never vote in a third party to remove these bums what we have is a sense of establishment and entitlement among our leaders. They feel themselves deserving and all powerful. You keep electing them and they keep doing whatever the hell they want.

The rule of the people in our republic has been decimated by our two party political system and in its place we have tyranny. Neither party nor their leaders recognize the rule of law or the will of the people. The only will is theirs and it shines brightly in the capitol unopposed by a bleating, ill, and beleaguered populace that knows nothing more than a party vote.

When it comes down to Ron and Rand Paul, ‘the quacks’, to oppose something like this you know you are living post-mortem after the fall of your nation. Any continued semblance of what existed before is merely here before the death throes kick in. The United States is the modern textbook example of Rome.

Our place in history has already been written, even before it fully materializes. We could still stop it if we wanted to, but as a majority we will never want to stop this.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
In your zest to crucify Anarchist420 you've made yourself deaf, dumb and blind. The reaction here is a microcosm of typical American life. Too busy with celebrity bullshit while liberty and power is taken from you. Ignorant fools!

(H.R. 1540, Sec. 1034 States:



"Associated forces" is what our President gets to decide for himself. Yes it has to make it through the Senate and I hope to god someone is able to lobby this section out.

Abraham Lincoln had this to say about Presidential powers for war:

Great Post . Do you think it will enlighten blind fools ?

He who would be King of Kings dwells among us . truely sad.
 
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