3700X + NH D15 high temps

[deustroop]

"PBO is on "auto" so I'm not sure if it's on or not. Apparently turning it on voids the warranty so I'm not touching it. "

You are missing my point. I am suggesting that "auto" is ON for your board and you should turn it OFF. Thus no warranty issue. If I am correct about MCE type operation, OFF will reduce idle power/ temps and return the package to more normal operations.

 

[Kenmitch]

"PBO is on "auto" so I'm not sure if it's on or not. Apparently turning it on voids the warranty so I'm not touching it. "

You are missing my point. I am suggesting that "auto" is ON for your board and you should turn it OFF. Thus no warranty issue. If I am correct about MCE type operation, OFF will reduce idle power/ temps and return the package to more normal operations.

Ryzen master will tell a person what mode the auto setting of pbo in bios is in. My MSI auto = off.

 

[lopri]

Precision Boost = AMD's version of Intel Turbo Boost. AMD calls "Precision," because their frequency stops are more granular.
Precision Boost Overdrive = Allows more cores to boost more often by raising the power cap beyond the stock limit.

Note there is no overclocking in either mechanism.

 

[Snarf Snarf]

Also be sure to check your background applications and make sure you aren't running more than one form of HW monitor (iCue and CAM also count if you're using them for RGB). If you run 2 monitoring apps they will continuously probe the CPU to wake up and cause the 1.4v pinned at idle issue. Kill all processes and run the Ryzen Balanced Power Plan in Windows, open CPU-Z and check CPU voltage while the cores are parked, it should go below .9v which shows that the core gating and power saving mechanisms are working correctly.

35-40C idle is very standard for this generation and thermal density will cause an all core load to get to 70+ C regardless of how strong of a cooling solution you have. 85 C in Fortnite is a bit high though, that's more heat than my 3900x @ 4.4 all core is putting out in Cinebench or my CCX OC to 4.5 running Apex Legends.

 

[Steelbom]

What everyone says seems correct to me:

1. You have to account for the MCM design when you spread thermal interface material. Grain size drop in the center is inadequate.
2. There are BIOS versions that give extra voltages to the chips. See you can find more recent BIOS for your board.
3. Manually limiting the board's power supply to the CPU will lower the temperature by quite a lot. You may have to find a sweet spot because undervolting too much will have negative effect on performance.

I see... the next time I remove my cooler (which may be soon) I will use a better method of application.
Already on the latest BIOS, having issues (with posting) and waiting on the next version to hopefully fix them.

Thanks for the info!

That is not a lot of power output. Even taking power density into account, hotspots in a "GPU-like" situation on TSMC 7nm shouldn't be much higher than +25-30C than die edge temperature. A stock NH-D15 can handle heat loads of 180W with aplomb. The "cool" parts of the chiplets should be very close to ambient. I see no reason why your hotspots would be getting as high as 75C (assuming that's what's being reported). Also, package power should be chiplet + I/O die combined (CPU + SoC) so the power output from the chiplet alone should be even lower than what is reported.

I suspect a bad mount or something.

I see, yep, I think I may need to fix my thermal paste application. It is mounted tightly though.

"PBO is on "auto" so I'm not sure if it's on or not. Apparently turning it on voids the warranty so I'm not touching it. "

You are missing my point. I am suggesting that "auto" is ON for your board and you should turn it OFF. Thus no warranty issue. If I am correct about MCE type operation, OFF will reduce idle power/ temps and return the package to more normal operations.

Oh, right. Okay yeah I'll do that. It shouldn't be on my default if it voids the warranty though!

Ryzen master will tell a person what mode the auto setting of pbo in bios is in. My MSI auto = off.

Is that control mode? Mine says "OC Mode - default".

Also be sure to check your background applications and make sure you aren't running more than one form of HW monitor (iCue and CAM also count if you're using them for RGB). If you run 2 monitoring apps they will continuously probe the CPU to wake up and cause the 1.4v pinned at idle issue. Kill all processes and run the Ryzen Balanced Power Plan in Windows, open CPU-Z and check CPU voltage while the cores are parked, it should go below .9v which shows that the core gating and power saving mechanisms are working correctly.

35-40C idle is very standard for this generation and thermal density will cause an all core load to get to 70+ C regardless of how strong of a cooling solution you have. 85 C in Fortnite is a bit high though, that's more heat than my 3900x @ 4.4 all core is putting out in Cinebench or my CCX OC to 4.5 running Apex Legends.

Yeah, I'm only running one monitoring type app at a time. Currently on the Ryzen Balanced power plan. Will check the parked voltage later.

When I did Cinebench it was ~73-75c. I think perhaps prolonged gaming increased the heat in the case maybe.

 

[Kenmitch]

Is that control mode? Mine says "OC Mode - default".

Yep. That would be off.

 

[Steelbom]

Yep. That would be off.

Cool! I went into the BIOS and set it to "off" anyway, and yeah nothing changed. Also re-enabled AMD Cool n Quiet. Temps (barely anything open) jump between 48 and 62 and will ramp up to 73-75 under full load (cinebench) and then drop back down quickly.

Temperatures seem okay at the moment, but will re-apply thermal paste and see if I get any noticeable difference.

 

[Kenmitch]

@Kenmitch would do mind testing your idle temps & CPU Package Power with sleep states disabled? (if MSI X570 BIOS is anything like previous AMD versions you should be able to flip the switch in BIOS )

I think I found the settings, but determined it's probably not the best thing to play around with seeing how the Agesa's are playing a little on the funky side.

I'm about to start another Ryzen adventure anyways. I have the CH6/1600 combo I picked up during the Bestbuy $199 combo deal. I'm not sure how it's gonna go, but I'm going to see about getting up and running for some testing. I'd like to to test the MB out and get it 3xxx ready. It looks like the CH6 is hit and miss currently as some users get the 3xxx series up and running, while others can't even get them to boot. I figure it'll at least satisfy the desire to tinker.

 

[Space Tyrant]

I did an idle temp test this morning on my 3600X. I booted it into Linux 4.10, opened a terminal, a clock, and a sensor monitoring program, 'psensor', and let it sit there for 40 minutes. With the exception of the above, a few minor cron jobs, and me logging notes in a vi session, it was otherwise completely idle.

CPU quickly rose to 34C and was still at 34C after 40 minutes, having hit a high of 43C during that time (probably during the daily fstrim run). CPUTIN was at 34C which was also its peak temp.

Ambient was ~26C. The CPU has a 4.0GHz pstate OC and has cool & quiet enabled, so it should behave as stock *when idle*. Any boosting would be capped at 4GHz only.

It has a Wraith Spire air cooler (original, not '2') with the stock 92mm fan replaced by a 120mm phanteks pwm radiator fan running at ~600 RPM for the duration of the test. So, the cooler is well above pure stock, but still very modest compared to high-end air coolers like the NH D15 or a Dark Rock 4, etc.

 

[Steelbom]

So noticing something a bit weird. When I'm in Ryzen Master and my power plan is set to Ryzen Balanced (or Power Saver) the voltage is basically fixed at 1.45V whilst idle.

Pop the plan on the Windows Power Saver and the voltage drops down to 0.925 and my temps hit 44c and stay around that temperature.

So it seems like the Ryzen plan isn't letting the CPU lower the voltage when not under load?

The clock speed on the Windows power plan keeps the max speed around 2225MHz. Tested in Cinebench with single core test. When I do the all core test though after 4-5 seconds it does ramp up to 3933MHz at 1.25V and then back down after it's finished.

Why would the voltage not be allowed to drop on any of the Ryzen plans?

I did an idle temp test this morning on my 3600X. I booted it into Linux 4.10, opened a terminal, a clock, and a sensor monitoring program, 'psensor', and let it sit there for 40 minutes. With the exception of the above, a few minor cron jobs, and me logging notes in a vi session, it was otherwise completely idle.

CPU quickly rose to 34C and was still at 34C after 40 minutes, having hit a high of 43C during that time (probably during the daily fstrim run). CPUTIN was at 34C which was also its peak temp.

Ambient was ~26C. The CPU has a 4.0GHz pstate OC and has cool & quiet enabled, so it should behave as stock *when idle*. Any boosting would be capped at 4GHz only.

It has a Wraith Spire air cooler (original, not '2') with the stock 92mm fan replaced by a 120mm phanteks pwm radiator fan running at ~600 RPM for the duration of the test. So, the cooler is well above pure stock, but still very modest compared to high-end air coolers like the NH D15 or a Dark Rock 4, etc.

Oh nice those temps sound pretty good!

 

[Hitman928]

So noticing something a bit weird. When I'm in Ryzen Master and my power plan is set to Ryzen Balanced (or Power Saver) the voltage is basically fixed at 1.45V whilst idle.

Pop the plan on the Windows Power Saver and the voltage drops down to 0.925 and my temps hit 44c and stay around that temperature.

So it seems like the Ryzen plan isn't letting the CPU lower the voltage when not under load?

The clock speed on the Windows power plan keeps the max speed around 2225MHz. Tested in Cinebench with single core test. When I do the all core test though after 4-5 seconds it does ramp up to 3933MHz at 1.25V and then back down after it's finished.

Why would the voltage not be allowed to drop on any of the Ryzen plans?


Oh nice those temps sound pretty good!

The Ryzen plan has like a 25 - 50x faster response for boosting. Basically the Ryzen plan will boost really quickly under even light loads which includes most monitoring software. You can use the Windows plan but you won't get as much responsiveness. The suggestion is to try monitoring clocks and voltage using CPUz and only CPUz if you want to see what the CPU is doing under idle on the Ryzen plan.

 

[Kenmitch]

So noticing something a bit weird. When I'm in Ryzen Master and my power plan is set to Ryzen Balanced (or Power Saver) the voltage is basically fixed at 1.45V whilst idle.

I'd change power plan back and somewhat ignore what you see as voltage while your idling.

Use cpuz or HWiNFO 64 to monitor your vcore while observing the voltage at idle in Ryzen Master. You can just put either one on top of Master to compare. Watch your cores in Master and you'll see they'll throttle down/sleep. You should see lower vcore in cpuz and HWiNFO64 (look for vcore) which should show a more accurate reading.

 

[Markfw]

Silly questions:
1) Where do you see the power plan in Ryzen Master ?
2) What does PROCHOT mean in Ryzen Master ?

 

[Steelbom]

The Ryzen plan has like a 25 - 50x faster response for boosting. Basically the Ryzen plan will boost really quickly under even light loads which includes most monitoring software. You can use the Windows plan but you won't get as much responsiveness. The suggestion is to try monitoring clocks and voltage using CPUz and only CPUz if you want to see what the CPU is doing under idle on the Ryzen plan.

AMD said Ryzen Master is the best tool to use but CPU-Z also captures voltage without the observer effect happening. In both, the voltage is high on any Ryzen plan (1.45v) and low on the Windows Power Saver plan (0.935v). (Both Ryzen Master & CPU-Z show this voltage difference).

For example I was idling at 36 degrees just now on the Power Saver, and switched to Ryzen Balanced, temps jumped straight to 53 degrees and have gone as high as 58. Literally within two seconds.

I'd change power plan back and somewhat ignore what you see as voltage while your idling.

Use cpuz or HWiNFO 64 to monitor your vcore while observing the voltage at idle in Ryzen Master. You can just put either one on top of Master to compare. Watch your cores in Master and you'll see they'll throttle down/sleep. You should see lower vcore in cpuz and HWiNFO64 (look for vcore) which should show a more accurate reading.

I see "Core Voltage" which is almost identical to the Ryzen Master voltage that I'm seeing. I've changed it back for now, but yeah as I mentioned above the temps jumped instantly from idling at 36 to idling at 53 (and bouncing up to 58).

It's weird that on the Ryzen plan the voltage never drops below 1.45.

Silly questions:
1) Where do you see the power plan in Ryzen Master ?
2) What does PROCHOT mean in Ryzen Master ?

1) You see it in Windows settings, not in Ryzen Master. I search for "Power Plan" and it comes up in Windows search.
2) No idea. Also interested.

 

[Markfw]

AMD said Ryzen Master is the best tool to use but CPU-Z also captures voltage without the observer effect happening. In both, the voltage is high on any Ryzen plan (1.45v) and low on the Windows Power Saver plan (0.935v). (Both Ryzen Master & CPU-Z show this voltage difference).

For example I was idling at 36 degrees just now on the Power Saver, and switched to Ryzen Balanced, temps jumped straight to 53 degrees and have gone as high as 58. Literally within two seconds.


I see "Core Voltage" which is almost identical to the Ryzen Master voltage that I'm seeing. I've changed it back for now, but yeah as I mentioned above the temps jumped instantly from idling at 36 to idling at 53 (and bouncing up to 58).

It's weird that on the Ryzen plan the voltage never drops below 1.45.

1) You see it in Windows settings, not in Ryzen Master. I search for "Power Plan" and it comes up in Windows search.
2) No idea. Also interested.

Thats all windows, I was talking about where is the Ryzen power plan ?

 

[Steelbom]

Thats all windows, I was talking about where is the Ryzen power plan ?

Ohhh, I see what you mean. You have to install the latest chipset drivers from AMD, and then the Ryzen power plans appear.

 

[Errorfatal]

I'm seeing 50-60 idle and 60-70 degrees celsius with very light usage, like <10% CPU usage. Both CPU fans spinning at 800-1200 RPM. Two AP181's at 800 RPM.

I have the high performance setting enabled in Power Plans, so I expect it would be higher than if it were set to balanced.

Playing Fortnite for a couple of hours pushes the temps up to 85.

Are these temps reasonable? Ambient would be about 26 degrees.

Perhaps some other users with NH D15's or similar could chime in?

Appreciate any input.

A lot of the poeple here with the responses dont have Ryzen 3000 chips.
These chips are all idling at high 40's and 50's, maxing at 80's under full load. It has nothing to do with TIM nor how your Noctua is seated. Irratic behaviour of Ryzen MB with CPU with wide range of voltage is causing your temps to spike. Hopefully AMD will patch this soon. Meanwhile, my advice is limit your max boost with power draw. This will limit your performance by 2-3% but your temps will drop by 10-20C

OK my friend recently asked this same question. He said his 3800x had crazy idle temp's (same as what i have been hearing from everyone) So i spent 5 mins and checked it out. IF you use cpuz you can see the voltage with out disturbing the cpu's sleep state. The latest version of AMD Ryzen Master can uniquely show you clocks and voltages in a cc6 state. No other tool can do it. For some reason the monitoring app's are what is causing it to boost. It seemed annoying for the fan to spin up and down every few seconds like the computer was possessed. This was actually one of my reasons for not purchasing one of these chips. Perhaps you can try the things i mention to see how it goes.

85c sounds a little high but from what I have seen almost normal.

 

[Errorfatal]

The Ryzen plan has like a 25 - 50x faster response for boosting. Basically the Ryzen plan will boost really quickly under even light loads which includes most monitoring software. You can use the Windows plan but you won't get as much responsiveness. The suggestion is to try monitoring clocks and voltage using CPUz and only CPUz if you want to see what the CPU is doing under idle on the Ryzen plan.

Oh you said the same thing as me. good post, sorry for my double post, didn't read the second page before posting.

 

[Steelbom]

OK my friend recently asked this same question. He said his 3800x had crazy idle temp's (same as what i have been hearing from everyone) So i spent 5 mins and checked it out. IF you use cpuz you can see the voltage with out disturbing the cpu's sleep state. The latest version of AMD Ryzen Master can uniquely show you clocks and voltages in a cc6 state. No other tool can do it. For some reason the monitoring app's are what is causing it to boost. It seemed annoying for the fan to spin up and down every few seconds like the computer was possessed. This was actually one of my reasons for not purchasing one of these chips. Perhaps you can try the things i mention to see how it goes.

85c sounds a little high but from what I have seen almost normal.

Yep, but what I'm finding is CPU-Z and Ryzen Master are both showing a really high idle voltage of 1.45v and it just won't go down unless I switch to the Power Saver plan, in which case they both show idle at 0.93v. The difference between those two voltages is 20-25 degrees which is substantial.

So really, I'm wondering why the other plans (particularly Ryzen Power Saver / Ryzen Balanced / Ryzen High Performance) don't allow the voltage to drop below 1.425v?

Lots of funky issues with BIOS stuff for my Tomahawk B450. Some people reporting better voltage stuff with the latest beta BIOS, but I'm waiting for release. So it's possible that it's BIOS related.

 

[Errorfatal]

Yep, but what I'm finding is CPU-Z and Ryzen Master are both showing a really high idle voltage of 1.45v and it just won't go down unless I switch to the Power Saver plan, in which case they both show idle at 0.93v. The difference between those two voltages is 20-25 degrees which is substantial.

So really, I'm wondering why the other plans (particularly Ryzen Power Saver / Ryzen Balanced / Ryzen High Performance) don't allow the voltage to drop below 1.425v?

Lots of funky issues with BIOS stuff for my Tomahawk B450. Some people reporting better voltage stuff with the latest beta BIOS, but I'm waiting for release. So it's possible that it's BIOS related.

Oh msi tomahawk. I know maybe this is sill, but what happens if you boot to safe mode and try the updated chipset driver and newest ryzen master. Maybe there is some backround process boosting it?

 

[Steelbom]

Oh msi tomahawk. I know maybe this is sill, but what happens if you boot to safe mode and try the updated chipset driver and newest ryzen master. Maybe there is some backround process boosting it?

Got the latest chipset driver, Ryzen Master and the latest BIOS. It's honestly a weird behaviour, so I'm kind of expecting the next BIOS update will fix it (and some people have said so).

If Windows Power Saver can idle at 0.93v then AMD's Ryzen plans should be able to as well.

 

[moinmoin]

If Windows Power Saver can idle at 0.93v then AMD's Ryzen plans should be able to as well.

Even 0.93v is too much, idling cores should be put in a sleep state at essentially 0v.

I don't see it being mentioned in this topic yet, do you run your RAM at 3600 or higher? Try below that.

 

[Steelbom]

Even 0.93v is too much, idling cores should be put in a sleep state at essentially 0v.

I don't see it being mentioned in this topic yet, do you run your RAM at 3600 or higher? Try below that.

They are going to sleep, and I see that in Ryzen Master. HWMonitor will only report their last voltage, but at least it's lower than 1.4.

My RAM is only 3000MHz.

 

[fleshconsumed]

FYI here are my load temps doing x265 HEVC bluray re-encodes under Windows Server 2019 in High Performance power mode. Fairly reasonable and fairly quiet at 1300rpm cpu fan speed given that GentleTyphoons are very quiet. It's running long job now, I'll post idle temps in a few days once the job is done.

 

[Aspality]

I have the 3700X and the NH-D15 as well, it's Winter here down under at the moment so I idle at 27C.
While gaming (depending on the game and duration) I go up to about 35-40C for a moderately intensive game.
Running Auto-OC with every limit turned up to max, and running multiple Cinebench R20 runs, I'm only hitting about 60-65C and I'm pulling the 1.46V it's auto capped at
An all core manual OC to 4.4GHz at 1.475V, also after extensive CB R20 runs will max out at around 68C, (I have all my fan curves ramp up significantly and basically hit 100% at 65C).
I do find that with PBO or Auto OC turned on, no matter the power plan your voltage gets pushed up pretty high past 1.4V even when doing nothing so I just made a Manual profile that was undervolted and left all cores at stock 3600 as a 'quiet' profile.

So I honestly have no idea what's going on for you to get such high temps, maybe your ambient temperatures are high and your case doesn't breathe well? Maybe it's a bad mount? Bad thermal paste application?