3770K IHS removal and results

graysky

Senior member
Mar 8, 2007
796
1
81
PART 1
Introduction
Feeling somewhat curious about the reports that inferior Thermal Interface Material (TIM) ships from the factory inside Ivy Bridge (IB) chips, I found myself taking my new 3770K out of the safety of its socket this afternoon and on to my desk where it went under the knife. About 15 min later, I finalized the divorce of its Internal Heat Spreader (IHS) and its Printed Circuit Board (PCB). It was surprisingly simple to do; a standard razor blade (0.009") and a little bit of patience was all that was required. After cleanup and application of fresh TIM, I sought to put a nice story together for you readers covering how to do procedure yourself and sharing my results and the methods used to arrive at them.

Removing the IHS from an i7-3770K
Maintain a level blade and gently insert it between the green part of the chip (PCB), and the silver part (IHS). I found it best to start on a corner. From what I've read, care needs to be taken not to scrap the PCB, as key parts of the chip reside very close to the surface. Slowly and gently, rock the blade between the two until it penetrates. Then slide it around the perimeter. See the pics to visualize the die so you don't push the blade in too far. The IHS will come off easily once you have completed severing the glue which is removed with gentle scraping with credit card or finger nails; isopropyl alcohol doesn't help much. When finished cleaning up both pieces, apply TIM to the die, place it back in the MB, and gently place the IHS on it. Lock it into place in the MB with the mounting bracket that will hold the IHS to the chip securely thus keeping you from having to glue down the IHS.





I'm a pretty big fan of Arctic Silver 5 (AS5) and used it both on the die, and on the outside of the IHS. My "factory" configuration had a good 120 h of load/idle cycles on it. As you probably know, AS5 has a breakin period associated with it...200 h according to Arctic Silver Incorporated. One can argue that this claim is valid based on the delta temp data.

Data Collection and Analysis
I wanted to generate robust and statically valid conclusions about the efficiency of entire process; results are drawn from a fairly large data set looking at the populations of temperatures and VID values. Temps and vcore values were collected via lm-sensors driven by a simple shell script which queried it every 2 sec logging the results to a file (see the end of this section for the script).

Example:
Code:
dts,vcc,temp,core0,core1,core2,core3,120mm_rpm,120mm_pwm,140mm_rpm,140mm_pwm
07-28-12 09:19:31 AM,1.280,66.0,58.0,63.0,65.0,60.0,1285,255,1225,255
07-28-12 09:19:34 AM,1.272,65.0,57.0,62.0,65.0,61.0,1300,255,1216,255
07-28-12 09:19:36 AM,1.272,64.0,59.0,63.0,66.0,59.0,1294,255,1226,255
...

These data were annotated and distributions were analyzed to see if the different TIMs under the IHS really makes a difference. Note that there are too many variable to control for this sort of analysis to be 100 % iron clad. For example, TIM spreading variations, mounting techniques, variations in hardware, etc. Even room temp can't be rigorously controlled. My office is air conditioned and ranged from 75-77 F when I ran the stress tests. In retrospect, I would have located the PC in my basement which has very consistent ambient temps but hind sight is always 20/20!

Methods of Stressing
I use linux, but key stress testers are cross platform. Intel BurnTest for windows is based on linpack from Intel which is available for many platforms. The settings I used were 25k problem sizes and 25k leading dimensions with 4 KB alignment.

On top of linpack, I ran a compile job looped in the background (nice=19) set to use 8 threads to further scarfs-up any unused CPU cycles.

System Specs and Settings
Asus P8Z77-V Pro
Intel 3770K @ 45x100
Cooling is an NH-D14 with both fans; my system manages their speed but they are both running on max for the stress tests (1,200 RPM for the 140mm and 1,300 RPM for the 120mm).

The BIOS is running using a vcore in offset mode so the vcore is automatically controlled by the BIOS and is dependent on load. Mine is stable with a setting of +0.0200 and here are the other key voltages and settings in case you're wondering:
Code:
VCCSA Voltage = 0.92500
CPU PLL Voltage = 1.5500
PCH Voltage = 1.06000
CPU Load-Line Calibration = Ultra High
CPU Current Capability = 140 %
CPU Power Response = Medium

Results
I ran the stress test described above for ~2 h period and used the geometric mean of the temps per core as the "average" temperature over that time period. I repeated this for a total of 4 nights, but lost the data on day 1 due to an overwrite on my part! Here are the average corresponding temps per day; there is a nice decrease out to day 3 where it more or less plateaus off. Perhaps that is the AS5 "breaking-in." Also note the error bars correspond to the measured ambient temp which ranged between 75-77 F or 1.1 C. You can see that some values at day 3 and 4 are not different when accounting for this:


As well, here is a plot of the delta temp, that is, the values subtracted from the stock results indicating the magnitude of temperature decrease:


And to be sure this horse has been beaten well after it died, here are the results compiled in a table:


Conclusion
For this example, a decrease in load temps was observed after delidding an Intel 3770K and replacing the factory TIM with AS5. The magnitude of the temperature reduction was not even across all cores, and ranged for -2C to -12C. The data are consistent with Arctic Silver Inc.'s claim that the TIM requires a break in period. This has to be one of the cheapest modifications to gain lower operating temperatures which can be converted into higher voltage and likely higher clock rates. The unevenness of the decrease is puzzling. Since the overall rank order of temps was retained after the TIM replacement, perhaps it has to do with some physical unevenness in the IHS, in the base of the HS, or on the CPU die itself. Investigating this is beyond the scope of this exercise.

Supporting Data
Link to my shell used to log the data.
Link to my shell script used to run gcc in the background.
Link to the entire data file (tab separated) should you wish to dig into it.

PART 2
Introduction
The above analysis was conducted using both a non-lapped IHS on the CPU and a non-lapped heatsink. I have since lapped both parts and repeated the experiment. My results seem to confirm that lapping these CPUs give minimal albeit real benefits. Others have reported no gains.

Lapping Parts
The process of lapping in detail will not be reviewed here, but in summary, one uses wet/dry sandpaper and a flat surface (glass usually) to slowly and iteratively grind an uneven surface. The goal of lapping is not be to make a mirror surface, rather, it is to make flat surface.

Lapping setup:


Heatsink lapping (220 grit --> 320 grit --> 400 grit --> 800 grit --> 1000 grit). Read this composite pic from left-to-right and from top-to-bottom:


As evident in the photos, the base of the NH-D14 is actually quite flat from the factory.

IHS lapping ( 400 grit --> 800 grit --> 1000 grit). Read this composite pic from left-to-right and from top-to-bottom:


As evident in the photos, the IHS on this 3770K was quite concave, that is, higher in the middle than elsewhere. "Flatness" was achieved in this case when no more silver color remained on the IHS.

Stress Testing
In addition to the linpack+gcc method described above, mprime (this is the linux version of prime95) running large FFTs was coupled with the same gcc compile stress to give another endpoint. By default, mprime runs with a background nice level (nice=19) and gcc ran with priority (nice=10). This is in contrast to the linpack+gcc setup where linpack ran with a higher priority and gcc ran with a background priority. This was by design.

In the linpack stress, gcc was employed to add further stress since linpack does not stress all cores evenly during a given run. In contrast, mprime does a very efficient job leveling load across all cores for a given calculation. Here gcc was given priority over mprime since the very nature of compiling code will lead to uneven usage.

Results
Rather than showing a per-core analysis which would make for a rather busy graph (4 cores x 2 conditions), a more simplistic "Lapped" and "Non-lapped" average results across all 4 cores is shown for each of the stress methods:


The delta temp spread for the averaged results ranged from 0 to -9 for the mprime+gcc experiments and from -1 to -12 for the linpack+gcc experiments.

Each line is relate to the factory TIM/unlapped result represented by the y=0 dashed black line. Again, these are delta temps which are relative to that factory result. The pink line shows the average drop in temp across all 4 cores for the unlapped results while the blue line shows the average drop in temps across all 4 cores for the lapped IHS and for the lapped HS. The data show a real but trivial difference after lapping both parts for most days. The exception being in the linpack+gcc stress on day 3. Here the average deltas are within error of each other based solely on the fluctuation in ambient temp.

Conclusion
Based on these data, lapping an i7-3370K and the heatsink used to cool it produces minimal benefits in heat dissipation gains.
 
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pantsaregood

Senior member
Feb 13, 2011
993
37
91
You'd probably get better results with a more high-end thermal compound. Usually AS5 is good enough, but I'd expect TIM quality matters more when it actually contacts the die.
 

2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
4,281
131
106
You'd probably get better results with a more high-end thermal compound. Usually AS5 is good enough, but I'd expect TIM quality matters more when it actually contacts the die.

I saw a 6C drop by just replacing the TIM between HSF and IHS from AS5 to liquid pro. And that's without delidding, so yeah. Good TIM is important.
 

pantsaregood

Senior member
Feb 13, 2011
993
37
91
That's odd. Usually AS5 being a "bad" compound is exaggerated. It still has a place as a well-performing compound, it just isn't the absolute best. On top of an IHS, good compound usually drops temperatures by ~3 degrees compared to AS5.
 

2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
4,281
131
106
Not saying its bad. I used it exclusively up until I gave liquid pro a try, and still use it for everything except my 3770k. I just used some today on my 5870 when I had to remove the cooler to fix a loud fan.

I was quite surprised at the results myself and would not have ruled out an improper application or hsf mount if it weren't for the fact I reapplied/re mounted several times.
 

graysky

Senior member
Mar 8, 2007
796
1
81
@all - Yeah, I know AS5 isn't the best, but it's close as others have pointed out and it's reliable. From what I understand, the liquid metal TIMs like Liquid Pro literally join to metal surfaces together after months of use. I want the ability to remove the IHS/die and HS/IHS in the future which is why I didn't buy some.
 

_Rick_

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2012
3,941
69
91
Bigger balls, and he'd be giving it a naked run. (Probably requires a few mods to the socket or cooler though.)
Wonder how much the two extra transitions cost in terms of overall heat transfer capability.
 

Termie

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
7,949
48
91
www.techbuyersguru.com
Amazing work, and great data. Thanks for doing this. I won't be performing this surgery on my 3770k, but appreciate knowing that it can be done.

By the way, while I notice a big difference in core 0's idle temps (it's much hotter than the rest), at load it levels off with the rest of the cores. My chip is a bit newer, I believe - I wonder if Intel improved the process of applying TIM.
 
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graysky

Senior member
Mar 8, 2007
796
1
81
By the way, while I notice a big difference it core 0's idle temps (it's much hotter than the rest), at load it levels off with the rest of the cores. My chip is a bit newer, I believe - I wonder if Intel improved the process of applying TIM.

I bought mine a few weeks ago... anyone know how to decode Intel's S/N or Batch# to trace back to a date?
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,882
1,550
126
Amazing work, and great data. Thanks for doing this. I won't be performing this surgery on my 3770k, but appreciate knowing that it can be done.

By the way, while I notice a big difference it core 0's idle temps (it's much hotter than the rest), at load it levels off with the rest of the cores. My chip is a bit newer, I believe - I wonder if Intel improved the process of applying TIM.

Ditto and :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

IDontCare had mentioned possibility of using IC Diamond. When I saw someone -- probably an enthusiast on the other side of the Pacific -- using Liquid Metal Pro, I gasped. I thought that formula was conductive, but maybe it doesn't matter.

On the thermal-resistance angle and looking at the temperature deltas for a 100W TDP setup, I had seen IC Diamond trump AS5 by between 2 and 5C, and Indigo Xtreme (similar to Metal Pro but a foil or "pad") show maybe 2 to 3C improvement over IC Diamond.

The nano-diamond formula is completely non-conductive. For all I know, you could apply it excessively and literally pack the inside of the IHS with it. [and you can say "That's stupid!" . . . fine with me, since you can't find a good idea until you come up with several dumb ones . . . ]

The Liquid-Metal-Pro guy exclaimed an improvement exceeding 20C degrees. I just don't know how reliable are his results, but he was initially showing load temperatures above 90C to 94C.

Apparently, people are satisfied with their Ivy processors and the over-clocks they can get from them. I can't count on any "announcement" from Intel that they've followed up on these early findings (aggregate, including Graysky's) or that they've made some slight, minor change in their production process.

But if I buy an Ivy to replace my Sandy, I'll either be inclined to do the de-lidding myself, or know that Intel has made the improvements at the factory. Not adverse to "doing the work" myself, but . . . . "ah'm jus' sayin', Dogg . . . . "

Again -- "good work" to Graysky the OP.
 

Fjodor2001

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2010
3,989
440
126
Approximately how many extra MHz overclock ability would the lower temperatures translate into?
 

Yuriman

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2004
5,530
141
106
I'd guess lowering temps 10c would give 2-300mhz more headroom (tops).
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,882
1,550
126
Approximately how many extra MHz overclock ability would the lower temperatures translate into?

Only others here can speculate on that question. The voltage limits on the IB are more severe than the SB, but I'd seen enough reports wherein folks had said their "overclock was temperature-limited."

If I myself were thinking to push my [not-yet-purchased] IB to some "safe" voltage extreme, I'd still like to see the temperatures top out in the '70s or low '80s C. Or less, for that matter . . .
 

MacGyverSG1

Member
May 11, 2012
57
0
0
If an extra 200-300MHz can be had by replacing the TIM between CPU die and IHS, then Ivy would be in the Sandy neighborhood, but using less voltage. I would delid just to decrease the temps at 4.4-4.5GHz.

The Coollaboratory Luiquid Metal Pro is conductive, but you could use a thin bead of silicone caulking to seal the IHS to CPU. That way if you use too much TIM, the excess won't spread and cause a short. I'll have to check what temperatures 100% silicone caulking can handle.

Until I finally decide which motherboard to get, I have many options on what to do to my 3770k. I will definitely see how it performs untouched at stock and overclocked. Then delid it and see what kind of changes I can get.
 

OVerLoRDI

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
5,490
4
81
This is nifty. I love the level of detail. I would however have used a different TIM. AS5 was a great TIM and nowadays it is above average. There are better TIMs now that aren't much more expensive.

Even so, great data and great results.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,882
1,550
126
This is nifty. I love the level of detail. I would however have used a different TIM. AS5 was a great TIM and nowadays it is above average. There are better TIMs now that aren't much more expensive.

Even so, great data and great results.

If they'd previously used indium-silver solder, you might think that Indigo-Xtreme or well-trimmed Liquid-metal Pad material might be safe. But looking at pictures of the de-lidded core, I don't see any traces or contacts exposed.

AGain -- IC Diamond is better than AS5 and worse than the metal pads. It's non-conductive. Totally. I can't tell if it would help to just pack the inside of the IHS with it so that the excess gets squeezed out. But I also do not think it would hurt.

It would be good if someone could further clarify about exposed contacts and risk. The pictures didn't reveal anything to me in terms of potential risk, but then . . . . what do I know?!
 

Avalon

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2001
7,567
156
106
Good work Graysky!

Your results are fairly close to mine...my hotter cores dropped around 8-9C, while my cooler ones dropped around 4-5C. I used MX2 instead of AS5, though, but they are pretty even.
 

graysky

Senior member
Mar 8, 2007
796
1
81
@Avalon - I'm toying w/ the idea of replacing the TIM between the IHS and the die w/ MX4. How did you apply your MX2?

1) tiny drop method
2) spread it with your finger in a plastic bag method
3) tiny line method

Thanks.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,882
1,550
126
@Avalon - I'm toying w/ the idea of replacing the TIM between the IHS and the die w/ MX4. How did you apply your MX2?

1) tiny drop method
2) spread it with your finger in a plastic bag method
3) tiny line method

Thanks.

Do you see any risk in using the Liquid Pro or the "pads" from CoolLaboratory or Indigo-Xtreme?

I'm an IC Diamond "advocate," but the other products prove better, even as I haven't tested them firsthand and my data is coming from the manufacturers. The nano-diamond stuff is hard to spread, but you can spread on the IHS if you're worried about abrasion or something. It's also non-conductive.

One more thing. Just about every time I've had to use any TIM, I never noticed it mattering how I spread it. I always got the "right," satisfactory results. If the stuff is easy to spread, I might use the "plastic bag" approach. If it's hard to spread, I use a razor-blade. And I always use slightly in excess of the amount recommended.
 
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graysky

Senior member
Mar 8, 2007
796
1
81
@bonzaiduck - I'm not hip on using those metal pastes that fuse themselves to the components as I often replace my stuff.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,882
1,550
126
@bonzaiduck - I'm not hip on using those metal pastes that fuse themselves to the components as I often replace my stuff.

Sure, and I understand completely. However, supposedly the slight bond the Indigo-Xtreme or metal-pads make between the HSF base and IHS takes very little trouble to break, with the processor cap held in place by the motherboard clip assembly. For the indium-based bond between the IHS and the processor, that's much closer to a solder than a TIM.

Supposedly two separate TIM interfaces are worse than one, so if one of those interfaces is actually a metallic bond, the heat transfer is better.
 
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