380 tons stolen *BEFORE* troops arrived

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: MidasKnight

Originally posted by: NightCrawler
It deserves it's own thread due to the fact that so much BS was posted in the other thread that turns out to be so untrue.

I wonder if we will hear an apology or if the Media will gloss over it.

Answer:

Media will gloss over it.


I read here earlier that a new member of the forums said he was now voting Kerry because of this story about the missing explosives. He was a avid Bush supporter through and through but the missing explosives was the last straw to him.

Wonder if he's now going to vote Bush as this new turns out to be untrue .... hmmmm ...

He was lieing. No avid Bush supporter would flip flop so easily.

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Chowderhead, just how many of Iraq's 100's, probably 1,000's, of large explosives and munitions caches should we have secured?

All of them. Failing to have the troop strength or proper planning to do so, we could have AT THE VERY LEAST secured the largest of the KNOWN, PREVIOUSLY SECURED STOCKPILES.

How many did Bush secure???

Z-E-R-O!!!

Just how the hell do you explain that???

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: Shelly21

Originally posted by: Luck JF
The liberals are despicable. They will stoop to any lie to try and take power.

I disagree, there are despicable people on both sides who will do everything they can to stay in power.

You're 1/2 blind if you don't see it.

This is causing prevalent cynicism everywhere. I don't have a solution. Perhaps this is the only way one side can fight another?

What you say may be true, but the real LUST for power is on the Democratic side. The party slogan was "Oust Bush!"

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: XZeroII
Yet another liberal ploy to deceive the public. As mentioned earlier, this has already had a devistating effect on the election, and I would bet that Kerry is laughing is butt off right now.

I'd bet not. Once again, they made fools of themselves in public. Kerry does best when he keeps his mouth shut.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: BBond

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Chowderhead, just how many of Iraq's 100's, probably 1,000's, of large explosives and munitions caches should we have secured?

All of them. Failing to have the troop strength or proper planning to do so, we could have AT THE VERY LEAST secured the largest of the KNOWN, PREVIOUSLY SECURED STOCKPILES.

How many did Bush secure???

Z-E-R-O!!!

Just how the hell do you explain that???

With this:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/....explosives/index.html

"We, from the very beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom, did everything we could to secure arms caches throughout the country," Ereli said. "But given the number of arms and the number of caches and the extent of militarization of Iraq, it was impossible to provide 100 percent security for 100 percent of the sites, quite frankly."

...

Ereli said coalition forces have cleared 10,033 weapons caches and destroyed 243,000 tons of munitions. Another 162,898 tons of munitions are at secure locations and awaiting destruction, he said.

Z-E-R-O, huh? :roll:

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Yes, the U.S. military was at AlQaKaa promptly and found only a cache of regular explosives, Conjur. Thanks for the extra confirmation of the NBC story.

The real point here should be about the NY Times. Again.

There was readily available info that conflicted with the NYT's alarming headline and story. They chose to ignore it in an attempt to influence this election.

The whole story should have been reported, so everyone could make a reasonable judgement. Instead we get a biased mishmash that causes the Bush admin to scramble around trying to explain something that may not even be real, let alone need to be explained, and we have Kerry/Edwards running for the goal line without the football, making them both look foolish.

Will the NYT take a lesson from this experience the next time they decide they will support a candidate? Probably not. You'd think everyone would be on their toes when investigating a "scoop" after the CBS fiasco. Nope. Memories are way too short when the media sees a chance to help their candidate.

Really good post!

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: The Aficionado

Originally posted by: classy
If your intent was to disarm, you should have made sure you moved to protect those weapons first.

Right. Next time the troops will go in via teleporter. That way every site will be secured within a month of the invasion starting, and no monday morning quarterbacks will be pointing fingers for not accomplishing such a feat.

Its not monday morning quarterbacking. They knew about these weapons which were being destroyed and under control of inspectors before the invasion. So yes they should have planned to protect these known weapons. Once again the question of flaky planning arises. They have shown they are incompetant. This should have been common sense. Maybe if Bush would have showed up for guard duty he could learned a little more about war. We know Cheney doesn't know anything cause he took several deferments not to serve at all.

And three months in RVN as a junior lt makes him such an expert? I knew USO shows with more time in country.

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: classy
So they did know about these stock piles then. Well why didn't they moved to secure these first. Yesterday, it was being spun by the right that Rice knew about them in OCT., but it is clear they knew about these explosives in April. If your intent was to disarm, you should have made sure you moved to protect those weapons first.

So there were WMD?

So we should have attacked sooner?

I don't think this was Rove's work, Kerry did this to himself.

The media is figuring out how to break it down into sound bytes otherwise even they can't talk about it.

It's so much easier to SHOUT 380 TONS OF EXPLOSIVES, BUSH'S FAULT...

I wonder if we're talking about English or Metric tons?

Also, in reference to my earlier post, it would take ~506 compact pickup loads if they're using the pickups I see on the news, don't recall seeing a full size pickup yet.

Those were WMDs dummy. They were explosives that were being destroyed after Saddam agreed to disarm after the first Gulf war. These weapons were under UN control and being tagged. You would think that it would be COMMON SENSE that if your going to invade to disarm, make sure you have a plan to isolate known weapons like these. But I think we can see Bush is common, with no sense attached.

You think for a minute that Saddam may have moved them as a tripwire in the days leading to the invasion? You think maybe they were already gone as the convoys left the ports heading inland. Even a neocom must remember that countries that could have given our troops shorter routing into Iraq refused to do so, slowing the access to Baghdad? Naw, though just can't happen in a mental swamp!

 

[NesuD]

Originally posted by: classy
So they did know about these stock piles then. Well why didn't they moved to secure these first. Yesterday, it was being spun by the right that Rice knew about them in OCT., but it is clear they knew about these explosives in April. If your intent was to disarm, you should have made sure you moved to protect those weapons first.

Classy use your head! If you actually read the NBC story it clearly gives the timeline. The complex is in the Baghdad area. We took Baghdad on the 9th troops from the 101st airborne arrived at the site to secure the explosives on the 10th. The explosives were already gone. They could not have arrived at the site any sooner. As well 390 tons of materiel couldn't be moved overnight either. Those materiels were removed long before our troops were anywhere near them very possibly before the war actually started. Also makes you think if Saddam could make 390 tons of explosives disappear without a trace it doesn't seem so unbelievable that the same could have been done with much smaller and easily moved stockpiles of bio weapons does it.

 

[TBone77]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
CNN is taking on the Kerry campaign for jumping on the story

LOL... it looks like someone from the Kerry campaign forgot to cut CNN's check this week:

With the U.S. presidential election eight days away, news of the missing explosives quickly became campaign fodder.

Democratic nominee Sen. John Kerry immediately seized on the information to accuse President Bush of incompetence in failing to secure the material, charging that "this is one of the great blunders of Iraq and one of the great blunders of this administration."

But in the wake of the NBC report, the Bush campaign fired off a statement saying that Kerry's criticism of the president over the missing material has "been proven false before the day is over."

"John Kerry's attacks today were baseless," Bush campaign spokesman Steve Schmidt said. "He said American troops did not secure the explosives, when the explosives were already missing."

Schmidt also said that Kerry "neglects to mention the 400,000 tons of weapons and explosives that are either destroyed or in the process of being destroyed" in Iraq.

But Kerry senior adviser Joe Lockhart fired back with a statement of his own, accusing the Bush campaign of "distorting" the NBC News report.

"In a shameless attempt to cover up its failure to secure 380 tons of highly explosive material in Iraq, the White House is desperately flailing in an effort to escape blame," Lockhart said. "It is the latest pathetic excuse from an administration that never admits a mistake, no matter how disastrous."

Lockhart did not elaborate on how the Bush campaign was distorting the NBC report.

I betchya they don't forget again

 

[outriding]

Well if the inspectors and or the IAEA had those exposives marked and BUSH told them that we are invading and asked the inspectors they need to leave because the invasion is going to happen. It sounds like to me that the inspectors were doing their job and Bush should have left them alone. And that is something that Bush should have taken into account but he did not.

 

[Chadder007]

Originally posted by: Gusty987
Those weapons, regardless of when they were moved, are still NOT in U.S. possesion and could very well be in the hands of the insurgents/bad guys. I think that is the point, and that is what John Kerry was bashing Bush about.

Oh and I bet he has a ...."Plan" ...and its a "Better Plan" right?
roofles

 

[klah]

You can watch the report from NBC Nightly News here: http://www.dailyrecycler.com/b...2004/10/nytrogate.html

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: Shelly21
Still, I'd like to know what happen to the explosives.

Well let's see. Insurgents have been using explosives *all over* the place to bomb hotels, busses, buildings of every shape and size, etc for a year now. I think it's easy to see what the hell happened to them, the insurgents grabbed the weapons that Saddam's army was too pussy to use and have set themselves up a decent little offensive.



Jason

 

[Gravity]

it matters in that it continues to substantiate that the liberal press wants the president out and Kerry in.

 

[Miramonti]

And soon the administration will claim that they've uncovered evidence that sadaam may have given part of the munitions to terrorist organizations before the war. :roll:

 

[abaez]

I don't understand. Isn't NBC contradicting itself? When I read this it quotes that the reporter says there were none, but afterwards the Pentagon "confirmed that the explosives, which had been under IAEA seal since 1991, were intact. " So you can believe the reporter, or the Pentagon. I think both sides will pounce on the issue as there is no real confirmation.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: jtusa4
No, this post is just "neocons grasping at straws"....:roll:

Yes posting the truth behind the story /gasp

This is just sick and I hope the American people realize the scams the media is trying to pull on them and votes Bush just to send a message to them.

You have memo-gate and now this?

These people have no journalistic integrity left.

 

[replicator]

U.S. troops didn't search weapons site: reporter
101st Airborne's stay at Al-Qaqaa was 24-hour 'pit stop' on way to Baghdad, embedded journalist remembers

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/...AX&tacodalogin=yes

NEW YORK ? An NBC News reporter embedded with a U.S. army unit that seized an Iraqi installation three weeks into the war said today that she saw no signs that the Americans searched for the powerful explosives that are now missing from the site.

Reporter Lai Ling Jew, who was embedded with the army's 101st Airborne, Second Brigade, said her news team stayed at the Al-Qaqaa base for about 24 hours.

"There wasn't a search," she told MSNBC, an NBC cable news channel. "The mission that the brigade had was to get to Baghdad. That was more of a pit stop there for us. And, you know, the searching, I mean certainly some of the soldiers head off on their own, looked through the bunkers just to look at the vast amount of ordnance lying around.

"But as far as we could tell, there was no move to secure the weapons, nothing to keep looters away."

 

[Gaard]

Multiple threads calls for multiple replies.

from other thread...

Let me see if I got this straight. We (US troops) arrived at the installation on April 10, 2003 to discover they were missing. Now, putting aside the fact that some people here are saying that we weren't informed until just recently, are they (this administration) saying that Condi Rice, our Natl Security Advisor, was just recently told about this?

^ Is this right?

 

[DoubleL]

Originally posted by: Gusty987
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Those weapons, regardless of when they were moved, are still NOT in U.S. possesion and could very well be in the hands of the insurgents/bad guys. I think that is the point, and that is what John Kerry was bashing Bush about.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regardless of when they were moved!!!. No this is not in the hands of the insurgents/bad guys, They have little need for HMX or RDX. I and you know why Kerry was bashing and still is. Kerry knew what was going on all the time

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: DoubleL
Originally posted by: Gusty987
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Those weapons, regardless of when they were moved, are still NOT in U.S. possesion and could very well be in the hands of the insurgents/bad guys. I think that is the point, and that is what John Kerry was bashing Bush about.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regardless of when they were moved!!!. No this is not in the hands of the insurgents/bad guys, They have little need for HMX or RDX. I and you know why Kerry was bashing and still is. Kerry knew what was going on all the time

And you know this how?

 

[DoubleL]

Well Engineer, I am still in the military and go by what the army times says also. Read up on HMX and RDX. I think High Melting Explosive and Research Department Explosive is just to much for what the insurgents/bad guys need or can use or know how to use

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: DoubleL
Well Engineer, I am still in the military and go by what the army times says also. Read up on HMX and RDX. I think High Melting Explosive and Research Department Explosive is just to much for what the insurgents/bad guys need or can use or know how to use

Sorry, I misunderstood your original post. I thought you meant that non of the amunitions at the site had ended up in others hands. Don't know about HMX and RDX stuff.

 

[jtusa]

Originally posted by: NightCrawler

Originally posted by: jtusa4
No, this post is just "neocons grasping at straws"....:roll:

No it's the Left that is grasping at straws by reporting stories they don't bother to verify in a desperate measure to get elected.

So much for fair and balanced.

Yeah, I was being sarcastic, I hate the libs just as much as the next guy.