3dfx technology glossary/Spectre info

[DaveB3D]

There are issues with the drivers. I don't think anyone questioned that. However I'm not aware of anything as drastic as what you are saying.

 

[Sephiroth_IX]

Yeah, they obviously wont ever improve their methods or anything.

 

[Sohcan]

<< Knowing is half the battle... that doesn't just go for GI Joe >>

ROFL Dave...that brought back memories.
&quot;I was once a man...a man!!!&quot;

 

[PCResources]

<< please tell me why u think that BETA drivers will always be the same as when they become WHQL certified. do you think they don't have bugs, and that the techniques that 3dfx uses in here will always end up like this? >>



NO, NO, NO, you got me all wrong... i usually think that the drivers for 3Dfx cards work very well..

BUT the latest drivers are running too fast for the cards to interpret the instructions... This Dave would agree on, i believe....

There is no way in hell that the old V5 cards could do these kinds of fill rates, what you get is black frames and then you are at the end of the room..

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources

 

[DeathroweR]

PCResources-

I hope you understand what you're saying; or else your proud sig just makes you look more like a clown. The blackouts only occur if a registry hack has been made and HSR was set to a value other than 0; or if you use a SET command to enable HSR in your Q3 batch file.

It's not meant to be used yet.

 

[PCResources]

<< I hope you understand what you're saying; or else your proud sig just makes you look more like a clown. The blackouts only occur if a registry hack has been made and HSR was set to a value other than 0; or if you use a SET command to enable HSR in your Q3 batch file. >>



Oh, man if i wanted any answer to my post, it was this one (no offens though)



<< The blackouts only occur if a registry hack has been made and HSR was set to a value other than 0; or if you use a SET command to enable HSR in your Q3 batch file. >>



Hehee, you wanted it too look as if i didn't know anything didn't you... well, you can take that little knowledge you have and use it for something else...

The blackouts occur when the values has been set to 2 or 3 also, so what does this tell you, and the SET command in Q3 wasn't used...

Obviously you are just another guy trying to score a few points, because you think that i do not know as much as you do... well, i used the HSR 2 AND 3 Q3 without SET, (freshly installed).

This doesn't really matter, what matters is that the drivers will run wild with a fast CPU, and the V5 cannot draw as fast.

Dave, i know you know this too, can't you please admit it?? (every one thinks i am just bullshitting them......)

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources

 

[Marty]

The visual flaws only occur if you activate an undocumented feature in beta drivers. I don't see why it should have to work at all.



<< There is no way in hell that the old V5 cards could do these kinds of fill rates, what you get is black frames and then you are at the end of the room.. >>



What do you think HSR is? 1600x1200x100fps is only 192Mpixels/sec. Granted, there are other limitations and bottlenecks, but by the numbers, a V5 which need not draw the hidden surfaces has more than the fillrate neccesary.



<< The Rampage has some pretty impressive specs, however only half of them would be used by anyone, but the NV25 has all of those pretty features baked into it's chip, and has HW support. >>



You seem to be privy to both Rampage's and NV25's feature sets. I guess thats the benefit of working for PC Resources, huh?

Marty

 

[Deeko]

You think very highly of yourself, don't you?

EDIT: That was directed towards PC Resources...somehow another post got in there

 

[DaveB3D]

ok, guys.. lay off PC Resources a bit.

 

[PCResources]

<< You seem to be privy to both Rampage's and NV25's feature sets. I guess thats the benefit of working for PC Resources, huh? >>



No, i do not work for PC Resources, i own PC Resources, i am the founder of PC Resources. But i do have some benefits though, i do know somethings and i don't know somethings...

BUT i get to test out everything and analyze everything for a few months (sometimes years) before the new HW and drivers are coming out... (special deals with nVidia and 3Dfx though).

I said in an earlier thread that i wouldn't get into these VC discussions anymory as i have the same dilemma as Dave, but i think that Dave needs someone to argue with be a real source of info.

How many companies have built their own 8 layer mobo's around the Samurai chipset (DDR last year with 66/64 PCE) and found a way to implement the T-bird (EV-6) in the config.

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources

 

[Skot]

Why did you even compare the Spectre and the NV25 anyway? It's Spectre vs NV20. Wouldn't it be more accurate to compare whatever uses Mosaic vs NV25?

 

[DeathroweR]

Hey PCResources -

I'm proud you're an itellectual asset of the board and not the dumbass I thought you were.

So why are you biitching about an unsupported feature of beta drivers then?

BTW, what is that PC Resources place anyway?

 

[Marty]

You own PC Resources? Thats pretty cool.

So are you saying that you do have intimate knowledge of the Rampage and NV25, or that you do not? From your posts, it does not seem you have the understanding of or insight into some of the next generation of products that others you mention have demonstrated.

Finally, I still would like a clarification of your view of 3dfx's beta drivers. Can you really blame them for visual flaws resulting from the use of an undocumented feature in beta drivers that were released solely for the sake of Tribes-2 beta testers?

Marty

 

[Deeko]

Poor guy...thinks so highly of himself...I'd love to make fun of him, but I'm sure others will do it for me. He has such a Hardware-like tone...just smarter.

EDIT: Oh wait, I did

 

[Soccerman]

PC Resources, I don't think the problem is forcing the card to go faster then it was designed to do.. I think that the problem is the drivers, simply because this is the first release that actually can do this.

can you explain why u think that the problem is the card?

all these drivers do is reduce the fillrate and memory requirements of the card. the card really doesn't see the difference, it's the CPU that has to jump through hoops to do HSR.

EDIT: actually, I keep forgetting that these do more then just HSR.. so I suppose the card might actually do some extra stuff too, I just don't know what (and won't know unless I become part of 3dfx I guess).

it's sortof like running Forsaken, or Incoming, or some other early 3D game that doesn't require much of anything compared to what we already have. you won't experience problems in these games because they run extremely fast..

 

[PCResources]

All of you who think these beta drivers are flawed, you are all wrong.

The drivers are correct, it's the chip that cannot keep up with the speed.




<< So are you saying that you do have intimate knowledge of the Rampage and NV25 >>



Yes, that is what i am saying...




<< From your posts, it does not seem you have the understanding of or insight into some of the next generation of products that others you mention have demonstrated. >>



Well Marty, i do have some insight, and i do understand, i just cannot reveal anything, i knew i shoud have stayed out of this discussion.




<< Poor guy...thinks so highly of himself...I'd love to make fun of him, but I'm sure others will do it for me. He has such a Hardware-like tone...just smarter. >>



Well, would there be any reason to answer this post,...

Sure, i am just the same as GUTB and HW, am i not... Just because i do not agree with everything...

I do have a valid point, otherwise i would not have posted anything, if Dave didn't think that i did, do you really believe that he would ask you to lay off?

The thing is, that you Deeko have nothing to add to this thread but flames, and i think that we all would agree that is not what we want.

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources

 

[Soccerman]

can u please respond to my post? I'm trying to get past the flaming..

 

[Marty]

<< All of you who think these beta drivers are flawed, you are all wrong.

The drivers are correct, it's the chip that cannot keep up with the speed. >>



That doesn't make sense. If it is the case that the V5 is too slow, at least they could impose a limit on the fps to eliminate the anomolies at high resolutions. This would maintain the high level of visual quality and show what remains a significant performance increase. Some people have reported a doubling of fps under some conditions, with no impact on quality. Capping fps to a level the V5 can handle, according to your logic, would eliminate the flaws. Thi shows promise for future driver releases.

The drivers, at lower resolutions, are indicative of the performance gains to be had. The only thing that will change in the future is an even greater increase in performance at low resolutions, and an elimination of the visual errors at high resolutions, potentially coupled with a slight decrease in those high-res benchmark scores.

Marty

 

[PCResources]

<< all these drivers do is reduce the fillrate and memory requirements of the card. the card really doesn't see the difference, it's the CPU that has to jump through hoops to do HSR. >>



Soccerman, i know i was a little harsh on you in another thread, but i do have respect for you.


About these drivers, they do not only &quot;reduce the fillrate and the mem requiremnets of the card&quot;, actually it increases the need for mem bandwidth, a bandwith the V5 does not have.

The black frames happens because there is not enough mem bandwidth on the V5. That is what is the problem (when there is no memory output a blank frame would occur), you could perfect the drivers, lower the speed and maybe the bandwidth would be ok, but then the fillrate would not be ok.

This i am stating as a fact.

Dave, i know you hate to admit i am right, but please confirm it.

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources

 

[Soccerman]

ahh finally some decent talk!

can you explain why (in as simply terms as is possible, so I can understand) or are u under NDA?

 

[DaveB3D]

I honestly no VERY little about how it works. I think there are 2-3 people in the company that actually do.

 

[Marty]

<< About these drivers, they do not only &quot;reduce the fillrate and the mem requiremnets of the card&quot;, actually it increases the need for mem bandwidth, a bandwith the V5 does not have. >>



What portion of the V5 is taking up the extra bandwidth? This is nothing but a change in the drivers, which operate on the CPU level. From my perspective, it appears as though your statements are inaccurate. Please clarify if it is I who is wrong.

Marty

 

[Marty]

Dave doesn't know, and yet you claim to? Sounds fishy.

Marty

 

[Sephiroth_IX]

Well because it is drawing more frames per second, i assume the frame buffer could not get the memory needed and draw a black frame.

This is what youre getting at, PC?

 

[PCResources]

Soccerman, read private message...

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources