4-post lift & other garage toy questions

[Kaido]

I am looking to move into a more permanent place next year (renting now), preferably one with a garage. If not, then one with the option of building a garage (combo shop & car parking). While I'm not heavily into working on cars, I would like to be able to easily do basic maintenance (oil changes, transmission fluid, tire rotations, etc.) at home. I saw in another thread that someone had installed a 4-post lift in their home garage, which I didn't know was even an available option for residential use! Bendpak was one brand that came up in a quick google search:

http://www.bendpak.com/car-lifts/four-post-lifts/

Pricey, but not as bad as I thought...the 9000-pound HD-9XW model goes for around $3k online. Anyway, any tips or tricks? It seems like the main requirement would be having enough height in the garage to allow you to lift the vehicle up with enough clearance not to hit anything. I've also been looking at a few places out in the woods that have barns in addition to the main house, so a barn-shop might be an option as well & would solve the space issue, unless there's an option for an outdoor model...Backyard Buddy has optional casters that let you wheel their lift outside:

http://www.backyardbuddy.com/

Also, any other garage toys to look at? Gladiator has some really nice off-the-shelf cabinets, workbenches, and wall-mounting track solutions (shelving, hooks, baskets, bins, etc.):

http://www.gladiatorgarageworks.com/

I like Chamberlain's "Power Station": (air, power, and task lighting)

http://www.chamberlain.com/garage-tools/garage-power-station/model-a7008890-mc1

Although the reviews are so-so; I'd probably be better off just investing in a nice electric air compressor instead. I don't have much in the way of tools, either, so any suggestions would be appreciated. If I get a nice compressor (any recommendations?), then I can get some neat air tools like an impact wrench.

So, what's in your garage & what would a cool setup be like? I don't have anything fancy & don't plan on doing any restorations or anything like that, it'd mostly be geared towards basic maintenance tasks at home. I suppose I could just get some jacks, but if I have a garage (or driveway) available that can handle a lift, that'd be pretty slick (assuming the build quality is good enough that it'd last long enough to be worth the investment, like 20+ years).

 

[vi edit]

It'd take a *A LOT* of oil changes and rotations to ever justify your own lift.

With my driving at this point it's two a year, and that's mostly because of hitting 6 months rather than more than 5,000 miles. It's $40 for an oil change and rotation. If I paid out of pocket for oil and filter it'd be about $20-$25. So for $20 out of pocket it'd take me roughly 75 years to break even on that.

 

[Kaido]

It'd take a *A LOT* of oil changes and rotations to ever justify your own lift.

With my driving at this point it's two a year, and that's mostly because of hitting 6 months rather than more than 5,000 miles. It's $40 for an oil change and rotation. If I paid out of pocket for oil and filter it'd be about $20-$25. So for $20 out of pocket it'd take me roughly 75 years to break even on that.

Good point. This would be more for convenience. I could also get a pretty nice set of jacks for a fraction of the price...

 

[jlee]

If you're doing basic stuff I'd just get a nice floor jack and some jackstands.

I'm considering a lift as well, but I do far more extensive work than basic maintenance.

 

[NutBucket]

That Chamberlain thing would only be useful for inflating tires. I wouldn't bother. And really, a good set of ramps and jack stands are more than adequate for 90% of "car guys". A lift is purely a luxury unless it's your livelihood.

 

[jlee]

That Chamberlain thing would only be useful for inflating tires. I wouldn't bother. And really, a good set of ramps and jack stands are more than adequate for 90% of "car guys". A lift is purely a luxury unless it's your livelihood.

But what a luxury it would be....

 

[Kaido]

If you're doing basic stuff I'd just get a nice floor jack and some jackstands.

I'm considering a lift as well, but I do far more extensive work than basic maintenance.

Yeah, the basics is the most I would be doing. The jack setup would be super inexpensive comparatively (which would be great), but the 4-post stand would be convenient & a bit safer (no risk of tilt or crumble).

I don't know anything about them though, so I figured I'd ask :awe:

 

[tweakmonkey]

I work at a shop and we have two Rotary lifts. I think they were about $5000 each with the installation and everything, but the other brands you linked to might be less including install.

Just be sure you have the height clearance.

They are the best tool in the universe as far as I'm concerned. Even if I'm just changing wheels, brake pads, oil etc. I always use the lift. It makes life MUCH better when doing anything under the car or in the engine bay, as you can constantly raise/lower the car to work on both sides as well.

 

[JCH13]

My philosophy is this: I'm a DIY mechanic. More serious than your average DIY'er, but I'm not making a living doing it, so I'm not going to invest a shitload of money in equipment that won't pay me back. There's a lot of really pretty-looking garage stuff out there, and most of it is a complete waste of money. Buying second-hand, re-purposing equipment, and being honest with yourself about what you'll really do are good practices.

Lifts-

Don't bother with a lift unless you will eventually plan on doing much more than basic maintenance (I know I'll catch flak for this). You just don't need the hassle and cost of putting in a lift to change oil and brake pads. It takes up a lot of usable room (especially a 4-post) requires non-trivial overhead like a high amperage 220V electrical outlet and quite high ceilings that make the garage more expensive to make and heat. I just don't think it's worth the cost and hassle unless you're really serious about working on cars. Spending $400 on a nice jack and couple sets of nice jack stands is likely a much better investment for most people. Though I will admit that having a lift is really nice in certain situations. A good compromise would be a portable belly lift.

Storage and Workbenches-

All of this crap (and most of it is crap IMO) is a great way to deprive DIY mechanics of their money. It's REALLY expensive for no apparent reason. If you HAVE to have cabinets my suggestion would to be to scour CL for someone gutting their kitchen - lots of free or cheap cabinets that you can slap a coat of paint on and install. What I did was to collect old, but decent condition, filing cabinets from yard sales and thrift stores. They're heavy-duty steel construction, can support lots of weight in each drawer, easily stack-able, and are quite inexpensive.

Workbenches are likely worth spending a few bucks on, but not as much as Gladiator will charge you. I've got a workbench that's a 1x4 frame with a 3/4in ply deck and a stainless steel skin that was already in my garage when I got it. Something almost any DIY person could make, and the SS top is really nice (use steel or aluminum to reduce cost). My first workbench was 2'x8' of 3/4in ply with a whiteboard skin, it was framed in 2x6s and had legs made from 2x6s, my dad and I put it together in 2 hours or so and it worked (still works) great. A white background on the workbench was really handy, especially when working with very small parts, and the whiteboard material is basically water and oil proof (for short periods anyway) so the bench didn't soak up spills.

McMaster has decent light-duty options (no, you don't need a HD industrial workbench). As long as you can bolt a decent bench vise to it (and you WILL want a good bench vise) you'll be fine.

Overhead Stuff-

That power station looks pretty cheesy. A good overhead power reel is relatively inexpensive (check out Sears) as is a good overhead air hose reel (MSC, McMaster, etc). Like a lift, an overhead air reel is totally unneeded unless you do a lot of work on cars with serious air tools. I use air tools because a 5hp Quincy air compressor fell into my lap for free (and I use it for CNC-related activities, and my garage was already plumbed with hard-lines for air). Otherwise I would have invested in heavy-duty electric impact tools and used them with an overhead power reel.

I would suggest a cordless LED work light vs a corded light. Again, if you're not spending all day with your head stuffed under a hood a cordless one will work fine. They are inexpensive, easy to maneuver, useful outside of the garage, etc. A $5 LED headlamp (or several) will be worth every single penny and are more useful than a drop-light in many situations.

Tool Cabinets-

This is where you will want to spend at least a few dollars. Almost anything with ball-bearing drawers is worth the money. I've had good luck with Craftsman and Husky so far. Don't go out and spend $5k on a Matco toolbox, but do spend in the $300-600 range. Having a wooden top is useful as it increases your effective bench space. Get decent drawer liners (inexpensive) and little bins/silverware sorters/etc are great for sorting tools in drawers.

Tools-

I generally buy Craftsman Pro level tools. Lifetime warranty, local store, comfortable to use, etc. make them perfect for my use. You couldn't pay me to take bottom-end hand tools from HF or HD, that is a great way to get a stroke from frustration. Your hand tools are what you're going to be interacting with the most out of anything else in your garage - spend some money. Other things, like a lift or air impact tools, make a few select operations faster and easier. Good hand tools make 90% of what you do faster and easier. Your ROI is much better. I go to HF and similar for tools I use less-frequently though. I don't really need a $130 OTC bal ljoint separator, the $20 no-name Amazon-Prime tool will work just fine.

If you'd like I can take a few pictures of my garage if you'd like.

Edit:

Specialty Tools I Love:

Vacuum oil changer - you won't miss a lift if you never need to get under a car for an oil change. Worth every penny of the $60 it cost.
Positive pressure brake bleeder - a little gadet I threw together that lets me bleed brakes with ~5psi of air pressure. One-man brake bleeding jobs are a cinch. Used it on an F250 and a Miata. Can be used with a tiny pancake compressor.
Brake retraction kit - cost a few bucks ($45?) but I can do brakes on basically any car quickly and easily without taking a trip to Autozone to borrow one.
Pinch-weld adapter for jack - lets me quickly and easily jack up any car without trying to figure out it's 'safe' jacking points. I've used this on numerous cars to jack up a whole side at a time.
Low-profile high-lift jack - I have a HF jack that needs less than 3in of clearance to get under a car, and can lift over 20in. I have used it to work on aforementioned Miata and F250 with zero hassle. Very, very useful.

 

[jlee]

Don't bother with a lift unless you will eventually plan on doing much more than basic maintenance (I know I'll catch flak for this). You just don't need the hassle and cost of putting in a lift to change oil and brake pads. It takes up a lot of usable room (especially a 4-post) requires non-trivial overhead like a high amperage 220V electrical outlet and quite high ceilings that make the garage more expensive to make and heat. I just don't think it's worth the cost and hassle unless you're really serious about working on cars. Spending $400 on a nice jack and couple sets of nice jack stands is likely a much better investment for most people. Though I will admit that having a lift is really nice in certain situations. A good compromise would be a portable belly lift.

No flak from me - I agree. Costco has a nice 2.5ton floor jack for ~$100 and jack stands are inexpensive.

I wouldn't bother with a belly lift because I don't rotate tires often enough to care about jacking a vehicle up twice (and the MR2 can't rotate anyway) and I can change oil on both of my trucks without a floor jack. Ramps are fast, easy, cheap and safe if all you need is an oil change. You also can't use a belly lift a lot of other stuff I'd want a lift for (fuel tank, exhaust, or really anything under the center of the vehicle).

 

[cbrsurfr]

I like Chamberlain's "Power Station": (air, power, and task lighting)

http://www.chamberlain.com/garage-tools/garage-power-station/model-a7008890-mc1

Although the reviews are so-so; I'd probably be better off just investing in a nice electric air compressor instead. I don't have much in the way of tools, either, so any suggestions would be appreciated. If I get a nice compressor (any recommendations?), then I can get some neat air tools like an impact wrench.

There's some cabinet/storage stuff in my old garage/workshop thread:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2324312&highlight=garage

I just bought the Chamberlain power station last weekend. My local Menards had it for $89 with a $50 mail in rebate. I haven't put bulbs in the base yet. I have 2 3-outlet cord reels that I love in the ceiling. I wanted this for the built in led task light and air, the base lights should help as well since I made sure to mount it between the 2 lights I have.

The hook for the LED light is cheap and I see it quickly breaking. I find the air handy as it saves me from having to drag out my 110v compressor or mini car compressor for simple things like filling tires. No need to switch attachments or dig anything out, just reach up and it turns on automatically.

 

[JCH13]

No flak from me - I agree. Costco has a nice 2.5ton floor jack for ~$100 and jack stands are inexpensive.

I wouldn't bother with a belly lift because I don't rotate tires often enough to care about jacking a vehicle up twice (and the MR2 can't rotate anyway) and I can change oil on both of my trucks without a floor jack. Ramps are fast, easy, cheap and safe if all you need is an oil change. You also can't use a belly lift a lot of other stuff I'd want a lift for (fuel tank, exhaust, or really anything under the center of the vehicle).

Agreed. A belly lift is mostly useful for brakes and suspension work. Suspension work is what I might call "advanced" maintenance, not "basic" maintenance.

I totally forgot about ramps... I have a pair but I hardly use them. They are great for numerous uses though.

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

Air tools are AMAZING. Just discovered them, but it requires a good compressor. Compressors are expensive. Seriously, having a good air gun is a HUGE time saver - but you gotta be careful to not overtorque if you use it to put bolts/screws on. I use it mostly to dismantle. If you can find a good compressor at a garage sale somewhere, grab it up - something with high CFM rating... like 5 @ 90PSI at least. This will also open the door for possibilities with painting - which is difficult but fun.

Gear Wrenches will save your knuckles.

Get quality ratchet/wrenches. Cheaper stuff doesnt seem to fit bolts very well and they tend to slip or round bolts easily.

 

[Kaido]

There's some cabinet/storage stuff in my old garage/workshop thread:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2324312&highlight=garage

I just bought the Chamberlain power station last weekend. My local Menards had it for $89 with a $50 mail in rebate. I haven't put bulbs in the base yet. I have 2 3-outlet cord reels that I love in the ceiling. I wanted this for the built in led task light and air, the base lights should help as well since I made sure to mount it between the 2 lights I have.

The hook for the LED light is cheap and I see it quickly breaking. I find the air handy as it saves me from having to drag out my 110v compressor or mini car compressor for simple things like filling tires. No need to switch attachments or dig anything out, just reach up and it turns on automatically.

Yeah, I always have something to fill up, whether it's a car tire, inflatable mattress, bicycle tire, sports ball, etc. - being able to grab it & inflate would be really really handy.

 

[Kaido]

Air tools are AMAZING. Just discovered them, but it requires a good compressor. Compressors are expensive. Seriously, having a good air gun is a HUGE time saver - but you gotta be careful to not overtorque if you use it to put bolts/screws on. I use it mostly to dismantle. If you can find a good compressor at a garage sale somewhere, grab it up - something with high CFM rating... like 5 @ 90PSI at least. This will also open the door for possibilities with painting - which is difficult but fun.

Gear Wrenches will save your knuckles.

Get quality ratchet/wrenches. Cheaper stuff doesnt seem to fit bolts very well and they tend to slip or round bolts as easily.

Yeah - I worked at a construction shop a few jobs ago & their entire system was air-based, it was REALLY cool - everything from spray hoses to staple guns to nail guns was all plug & play.

 

[Kaido]

All of this crap (and most of it is crap IMO) is a great way to deprive DIY mechanics of their money. It's REALLY expensive for no apparent reason. If you HAVE to have cabinets my suggestion would to be to scour CL for someone gutting their kitchen - lots of free or cheap cabinets that you can slap a coat of paint on and install. What I did was to collect old, but decent condition, filing cabinets from yard sales and thrift stores. They're heavy-duty steel construction, can support lots of weight in each drawer, easily stack-able, and are quite inexpensive.

Workbenches are likely worth spending a few bucks on, but not as much as Gladiator will charge you. I've got a workbench that's a 1x4 frame with a 3/4in ply deck and a stainless steel skin that was already in my garage when I got it. Something almost any DIY person could make, and the SS top is really nice (use steel or aluminum to reduce cost). My first workbench was 2'x8' of 3/4in ply with a whiteboard skin, it was framed in 2x6s and had legs made from 2x6s, my dad and I put it together in 2 hours or so and it worked (still works) great. A white background on the workbench was really handy, especially when working with very small parts, and the whiteboard material is basically water and oil proof (for short periods anyway) so the bench didn't soak up spills.

McMaster has decent light-duty options (no, you don't need a HD industrial workbench). As long as you can bolt a decent bench vise to it (and you WILL want a good bench vise) you'll be fine.

...

Vacuum oil changer - you won't miss a lift if you never need to get under a car for an oil change. Worth every penny of the $60 it cost.
Positive pressure brake bleeder - a little gadet I threw together that lets me bleed brakes with ~5psi of air pressure. One-man brake bleeding jobs are a cinch. Used it on an F250 and a Miata. Can be used with a tiny pancake compressor.
Brake retraction kit - cost a few bucks ($45?) but I can do brakes on basically any car quickly and easily without taking a trip to Autozone to borrow one.
Pinch-weld adapter for jack - lets me quickly and easily jack up any car without trying to figure out it's 'safe' jacking points. I've used this on numerous cars to jack up a whole side at a time.
Low-profile high-lift jack - I have a HF jack that needs less than 3in of clearance to get under a car, and can lift over 20in. I have used it to work on aforementioned Miata and F250 with zero hassle. Very, very useful.

Yeah, historically all of my cabinets & worktables have been hand-built out of wood, nothing fancing. The thing I like the most is the track system (Gladiator & others have them) - makes it easy to hang pegs, bins, etc. on the wall to store everything from tools to yard equipment.

Never seen a vacuum oil changer before, that's awesome! Since I'd only be doing basic maintenance, I could definitely get by with some jacks & stuff along with that. Sweet deal, thanks! Do you recommend any particular jacks & stands (& power tools) for doing simple stuff rotating tires?

 

[JCH13]

Yeah, historically all of my cabinets & worktables have been hand-built out of wood, nothing fancing. The thing I like the most is the track system (Gladiator & others have them) - makes it easy to hang pegs, bins, etc. on the wall to store everything from tools to yard equipment.

Never seen a vacuum oil changer before, that's awesome! Since I'd only be doing basic maintenance, I could definitely get by with some jacks & stuff along with that. Sweet deal, thanks! Do you recommend any particular jacks & stands (& power tools) for doing simple stuff rotating tires?

Pegboard is also really easy to hang pegs and bins from and it is a lot less pricey than Gladiator stuff.

The jack that I have from HF.

Some jack stands I have.

Other jack stands I have.

I use a NitroCat impact gun because I have a serious air compressor. I'm sure someone else has a good suggestion for a cordless impact driver. I have this guy from HD which is great for snugging lug nuts before a final torque because it's only good for ~70ft-lbs or so, but it is not good at dis assembly.

 

[jlee]

I think this is the impact I have. I like it. It's also super light, if that matters to you at all.

 

[Mark R]

I'd would be awesome to have a lift, but I wouldn't do enough stuff to make it worth while.

I do know one guy that installed one. Not to work on, but to store a car!

He had a garage, but two cars he wanted to store inside. The town planners refused permission to extend the garage to accept two cars, so he installed a 4 post lift. One car would go on the lift. The other car would go underneath!

 

[Wuzup101]

In regards to a cordless impact wrench, I went with this: http://www.amazon.com/Makita-BTW450-...act+wrench+18v

Certainly not light, but gets the job done. Best tool I ever purchased (I have bad luck with stuck bolts). In general, if you don't have to travel with it (i.e. to the track or whatnot), an air system will be better. I'll get a air comp + lift when I buy a house. For now, jack+stands is good enough.

For what it's worth, I've done most basic/moderate work with jacks / stands. A lift is a luxury / time savings for most things. That being said, as soon as I have a permanent place (been renting as I travel for work), I'll have a lift.

 

[compman25]

Another thing with a lift no one is mentioning is you better find out if your garage slab meets the minimum requirements set forth by the lift manufacturer before purchasing and installing.

 

[NutBucket]

True but a "household" 4-post shouldn't be a problem. 2-post is where you start needing to pour nice footings.

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

Just a thought, but even if you bought a lift does it really lose much value? Especially if its one that can be easily moved, removed, and sold in the future.

I bet you could even find one second hand somewhere for a decent price. Why would it have to be new?

Buy one, if you done use it, or like it, then flip it.

 

[colorblind]

I would go with a 2 post lift. They make it much easier to work on a car or truck. Hint, hint, I have 11 2 post lifts and one 4 post.

 

[skyking]

agreed. 4 post lifts are for doing alignment or using as a storage lift. So much of the car is unworkable from the 4 post ramp system.
For me it is not about investment. I like monkeying around with things, and want the tools to do it.
For now I will use the neighbor's 2 post lift that I helped install.