4 stitches in my hand cost $452

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: joshsquall
Seems fairly reasonable, given the costs for materials, labor, and overhead.

No, that's not a reasonable cost at all.

What are you talking about? The cost of the labor isn't exactly cheap, you don't want just anybody stitching you up. Not to mention the cost of good medical supplies.

$450 to avoid longterm pain, problems with healing, or massive infection is pretty reasonable.

"Good medical supplies" only cost so much because hospitals are willing to pay so much, because they can charge so much. Get rid of the hospital's ability to overcharge, and the cost of his "stitch thread" will fall to around the same cost as dental floss.

Think about it. He likely got dis-infected, stitched up, and a band-aid on top. None of these things are new, or covered by patents. They are all commodity. I'd bet the actual cost of manufacturing everything involved with his treatment is on the order of $5, tops.

I have no costs other than gas/vehicle maintenance, yet most end up paying me from $150-300 to just fix a pc/laptop in an hour or so.

$450 is reasonable for this job esp if post-surgery care is needed for some things missed the first time around.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Doesn't sound unreasonable at all to me. Think about all the cost associated with it. Someone has to pay for the thread that's holding your wound shut, the drugs that numbed your hand while they stitched you, the electricity to provide the light so they could see to stitch you, the staff that empties the container of sharps that contains the needle that injected the drugs into your hand, the office staff that processed your paperwork and the doctor that actually sewed you together. Not to mention the risk of lawsuit the doctor and medical facility face if you get an infection or suffer long term effects such as poor circulation due to a blood vessel that didn't heal or loss of feeling due to nerve damage or allergic reaction to the drugs they used to numb your hand.

Then why would the same procedure have cost $100 if it was done by a vetrinarian on a dog / cat / other pet ?

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat

Originally posted by: Jumpem
The price doesn't seem unreasonable as far as medical costs go.

Ya, that seems cheap. But then, I would have wrapped it in paper towels and duct tape.

Krazy Glue is faster + more effective.

It was actually invented as a medical glue, a replacement for stitches, that could be used on the battlefield in Vietnam.

 

[marvdmartian]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Should have done it yourself or hired a homeless person to do it for a waffle house all-star breakfast.

LOL Knew a guy years ago, got all drunk one day, saw the neighborhood kid riding around on his go-kart. Asked the kid if he could take it for a spin, got in, flew around for a few minutes, and went to pull it back in by the curb, but misjudged the braking power of the machine, and kissed the curb with the front end of the kart. Didn't hurt the machine, but when he hit, he flew forward and kissed the steering wheel with his chin, and caused a 1" gash on the underside of his chin.
His wife bugged him to go to the hospital to get stitches, but he didn't want to. Instead, he went inside, cut the barb off a fishing hook, threaded it with some heavy duty thread, and stitched himself......in the mirror! Man, I saw the scar that left behind, and it sure wasn't pretty!! :laugh:

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Spidey I like you in OT but I've read the crap you spew in P&N and honestly you just seem to lose your marbles when the conversation gets political (shut up Phokus, so do you). You have absolutely no idea what it's like to live in a "socialist" country and you know nothing about the people here, so kindly keep your bigoted and highly offensive opinions to yourself.

My travels around the world have afforded me all I need to know about living in socialist countries. They fucking suck. You guys accept that shit as normal because you don't know anything better.

paying a few measily dollars in japan for stitches vs $452 here in the USA. Sorry, but you're dumb.

edit: I think even overnight hospital stays in Japan cost something like $10 a night.

I'm assuming the rest of the ACTUAL cost is provided for from the magic dust that unicorns fart?

Where are the costs imposed?

Again, medical costs are expensive because they are determined to be expensive--by profit-driven Insurance companies.

Cut out their influence, you cut out the cost. 33% tax rate in most countries includes healthcare. is 3% above our standard 30% going to drive you into poverty?

I seriously doubt it.

DO YOU FUCKING UNDERSTAND, YET?

Especially if that 3% is off-set by the $2-5000 savings you have from not having to pay your private health insurance deductible ?

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: Ballatician
I agree, their track record makes me uncomfortable but the point of this new plan is to actually increase competition in the health insurance industry by giving people an additional option.

As well as allowing insurance companies to increase their profit margins by selling very-profitable "gap" secondary insurance, for things that the "public option" doesn't cover.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Phokus


This is YOUR america, spidey:

http://www.harvardscience.harv...d-lack-health-coverage

"New study finds 45,000 deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage"

Uninsured, working-age Americans have 40 percent higher death risk than privately insured counterparts

You and your ilk are quite literally scum of the earth.

Can't provide for yourself means you should die. Darwin rules. Survival of the fittest.

So you're okay with letting mentally/physically retarded people die because they can't provide for themselves ?

Spidey's comment makes him seem like a sociopath.

He likes to spout a lot of generalizations and one-liners, believing he is more informed than the rest. It is his MO on these forums.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: joshsquall
Seems fairly reasonable, given the costs for materials, labor, and overhead.

No, that's not a reasonable cost at all.

What are you talking about? The cost of the labor isn't exactly cheap, you don't want just anybody stitching you up. Not to mention the cost of good medical supplies.

$450 to avoid longterm pain, problems with healing, or massive infection is pretty reasonable.

"Good medical supplies" only cost so much because hospitals are willing to pay so much, because they can charge so much. Get rid of the hospital's ability to overcharge, and the cost of his "stitch thread" will fall to around the same cost as dental floss.

Think about it. He likely got dis-infected, stitched up, and a band-aid on top. None of these things are new, or covered by patents. They are all commodity. I'd bet the actual cost of manufacturing everything involved with his treatment is on the order of $5, tops.

I have no costs other than gas/vehicle maintenance, yet most end up paying me from $150-300 to just fix a pc/laptop in an hour or so.

$450 is reasonable for this job esp if post-surgery care is needed for some things missed the first time around.

If you have no costs other than gas/vehicle maintenance, that means you are doing software fixes / re-loads and are not actually putting any hardware in, and therefore also not billing per-line-item for this hardware.

Notice I wasn't talking about the hospital's incidentals (heat / electricity / water, etc..) that any normal business has to deal with. I was talking about the specific items used in his treatment that are known to be highly overpriced, as evidenced by joshsqall's / BigNate603's original post(s).

I'm not saying i'm against the hospital making a reasonable profit. If surgery floss costs $2.5 per 25 feet, and they use 1 foot of it to stitch me up, I'm OK with them charging me $0.20 for that floss, even though it only cost them $0.10. I'm not OK with them charging me $10.00 for the same thread (like they do now).

 

[theprodigalrebel]

What I've learned from this thread: if you get cheap/free healthcare, you are living in an Orwellian nightmare of a country where oppression and logjamming reign supreme.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat

Originally posted by: Jumpem
The price doesn't seem unreasonable as far as medical costs go.

Ya, that seems cheap. But then, I would have wrapped it in paper towels and duct tape.

Krazy Glue is faster + more effective.

It was actually invented as a medical glue, a replacement for stitches, that could be used on the battlefield in Vietnam.

yeap. i got into a flame war over that with someone here. they didn't believe me that it was invented for the battefield of vietnam.

they are starting ot use a variation of it in hospitals now. i sliced my hand open a year or two ago and insteqad of 3 stiches i got it glued shut. it worked great.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: spidey07
Can't provide for yourself means you should die. Darwin rules. Survival of the fittest.

So you're okay with letting mentally/physically retarded people die because they can't provide for themselves ?

I will give him this... he is not pushing / legislating morality on you...

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Phokus
In Japan this would have cost you about $6

Of course they have a sane healthcare system where government sets rates and not the fucking retarded healthcare system that idiots like spidey07 loves

Yep.
Here is what you do. Figure out what 42% is of your income. Take that number and subtract what you now pay in taxes. I'll bet when you figure out what your net is you'll have 20% or so difference for an effective tax rate.

Let's say you earn the median income of 50K. Lets do the math.

42% of 50k = 21K
22% of 50K = 10K

Difference- 11k

Now, take that 11k and either buy insurance, or both depending on your situation.

Now lets say you opted out of insurance (I don't think it's a good idea, but whatever).

You spend $500 on a medical expense.

Financially, would you rather have someone take 11k more out of your pocket and hand you 6 back, or have 11k and take $500 from that?

Now some may find a couple percent difference between my calculations and what they can come up with. I did not however calculate the lessened buying power of your income based on higher prices of goods due to other taxes.

Here's my beef. We have people coming in from other countries saying how expensive your bill it. They are right. That's substantial for a great many people. We have people here saying the same thing and what a shame it is.

The universally consistent factor they ignore is how much it would cost to have "free" or apparently cheap health care.

There are arguments on both sides that are rational and some which make good points, but hand wringing about the cost of medicine and how we should have cheap access needs to take into account the TCO of acquiring it. Rarely, if ever is that mentioned.

If that's what you want, OK but Caveat Emptor always applies.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: joshsquall
Seems fairly reasonable, given the costs for materials, labor, and overhead.

No, that's not a reasonable cost at all.

What are you talking about? The cost of the labor isn't exactly cheap, you don't want just anybody stitching you up. Not to mention the cost of good medical supplies.

$450 to avoid longterm pain, problems with healing, or massive infection is pretty reasonable.

"Good medical supplies" only cost so much because hospitals are willing to pay so much, because they can charge so much. Get rid of the hospital's ability to overcharge, and the cost of his "stitch thread" will fall to around the same cost as dental floss.

Think about it. He likely got dis-infected, stitched up, and a band-aid on top. None of these things are new, or covered by patents. They are all commodity. I'd bet the actual cost of manufacturing everything involved with his treatment is on the order of $5, tops.

Do you have a real job?

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Spidey I like you in OT but I've read the crap you spew in P&N and honestly you just seem to lose your marbles when the conversation gets political (shut up Phokus, so do you). You have absolutely no idea what it's like to live in a "socialist" country and you know nothing about the people here, so kindly keep your bigoted and highly offensive opinions to yourself.

My travels around the world have afforded me all I need to know about living in socialist countries. They fucking suck. You guys accept that shit as normal because you don't know anything better.

My GF lived under Soviet Occupation for the first 20 years of her life. Many of her family members were killed by Stalin.

YOU HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE WHAT SOCIALISM IS.

To sit in your comfy little trailer in rural Alabama and scream that OMG FRANCE is teh COMMIES! does a great disservice to the 200 million + people that died at the hands of real criminals. Not to mention the soldiers of free countries that fought and died to prevent that poison from spreading anywhere.

now, kindly go and shoot yourself, or at least silence the fucking lies and ignorance that becomes your MO when things get political.

Seriously: FUCK YOU.

Socialism != Communism

By definition communism is much more extreme than socialism.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: joshsquall
Seems fairly reasonable, given the costs for materials, labor, and overhead.

No, that's not a reasonable cost at all.

What are you talking about? The cost of the labor isn't exactly cheap, you don't want just anybody stitching you up. Not to mention the cost of good medical supplies.

$450 to avoid longterm pain, problems with healing, or massive infection is pretty reasonable.

"Good medical supplies" only cost so much because hospitals are willing to pay so much, because they can charge so much. Get rid of the hospital's ability to overcharge, and the cost of his "stitch thread" will fall to around the same cost as dental floss.

Think about it. He likely got dis-infected, stitched up, and a band-aid on top. None of these things are new, or covered by patents. They are all commodity. I'd bet the actual cost of manufacturing everything involved with his treatment is on the order of $5, tops.

Suture material and that tetanus shot aren't $5 dollar commodities. If you want to save a buck you could tell your doctor to stitch you up with dental floss next time though :roll:

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: spidey07


Can't provide for yourself means you should die. Darwin rules. Survival of the fittest.

You should be the proud poster child of this.

heh.

 

[xj0hnx]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Mike Gayner

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Mike Gayner
/relaxes not having to worry about insurance and healthcare costs.

How's it feel to be a slave and not control your own destiny.

What say you slave? Don't worry, I'll take care of you. Now get back to work.

In what sense am I a slave? In that I work hard all week to pay exorbitant costs to medical corporations whenever I get injured? Oh wait, that would be you, where your healthcare costs more than twice as much as ours for the same level of cover.

Since you live in a socialist country you as a population have been dumbed down for so long when it comes to personal liberty and choice you couldn't possibly understand. Your government has won. You are also ignorant if you think the costs don't affect you....they are just indirect and if health care costs rise you either pay more taxes or receive less or inferior care. I guess you just like paying taxes or you are one of those at the bottom of the rung so to you it is all gain since you don't pay for much but consume all you like.

Oh no, 'socialist' countries spend half as much on healthcare as we do and THEY'RE the suckers, jesus christ you're retarded

Yes they are the suckers. They have no freedom, no choice, no liberty. They have their bread, they have their cheese. But their need for society is predetermined and the barriers to their success are nothing short of apartheid.

This is YOUR america, spidey:

http://www.harvardscience.harv...d-lack-health-coverage

"New study finds 45,000 deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage"

Uninsured, working-age Americans have 40 percent higher death risk than privately insured counterparts

You and your ilk are quite literally scum of the earth.

That's fucking retarded emotional dribble, over 2 million people in America die every year. ZOMG!!111!!!! if I don't have insurance my chance of survival are like ten times better!!!11!!! douchebaggery.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: Phokus
In Japan this would have cost you about $6

Of course they have a sane healthcare system where government sets rates and not the fucking retarded healthcare system that idiots like spidey07 loves

Yep.
Here is what you do. Figure out what 42% is of your income. Take that number and subtract what you now pay in taxes. I'll bet when you figure out what your net is you'll have 20% or so difference for an effective tax rate.

Let's say you earn the median income of 50K. Lets do the math.

42% of 50k = 21K
22% of 50K = 10K

Difference- 11k

Now, take that 11k and either buy insurance, or both depending on your situation.

Now lets say you opted out of insurance (I don't think it's a good idea, but whatever).

You spend $500 on a medical expense.

Financially, would you rather have someone take 11k more out of your pocket and hand you 6 back, or have 11k and take $500 from that?

Now some may find a couple percent difference between my calculations and what they can come up with. I did not however calculate the lessened buying power of your income based on higher prices of goods due to other taxes.

Here's my beef. We have people coming in from other countries saying how expensive your bill it. They are right. That's substantial for a great many people. We have people here saying the same thing and what a shame it is.

The universally consistent factor they ignore is how much it would cost to have "free" or apparently cheap health care.

There are arguments on both sides that are rational and some which make good points, but hand wringing about the cost of medicine and how we should have cheap access needs to take into account the TCO of acquiring it. Rarely, if ever is that mentioned.

If that's what you want, OK but Caveat Emptor always applies.

What the HELL are you talking about.

1. The Japanese government sets the rate of every single medical procedure done, that is the reason why costs are so low. They have BOTH private and public care. And the rate set by the government is what they pay in private and public care. Want to know how much your average Japanese worker with private company sponsored health insurance pays? $140 per month FOR HIS WHOLE FAMILY (the company subsidizes $140 per month as well). The reason this can be done is because Japan forces doctors to accept their payment schedule.

2.Japan spends about 37% per capita what we do in both private and public healthcare. If companies didn't pay for our healthcare costs and it was taken out of our taxes instead, our pre-tax wages would rise significantly.

ANYWAY YOU LOOK AT IT, if you add out of pocket + government expenditures + private health insurance we pay MUCH MUCH More than Japan does.

 

[FoBoT]

so why would any Japanese want to be a doctor, what is the incentive if the govt. controls all the prices

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
so why would any Japanese want to be a doctor, what is the incentive if the govt. controls all the prices

Believe it or not, not everyone wants to become a doctor for just the money. Perhaps Japan subsidizes their medical education?

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
so why would any Japanese want to be a doctor, what is the incentive if the govt. controls all the prices

Does Japan have a shortage of doctors? I know the USA does.

Once again, your old tired argument falls by the wayside.

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: xj0hnx

Originally posted by: Phokus

This is YOUR america, spidey:

http://www.harvardscience.harv...d-lack-health-coverage

"New study finds 45,000 deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage"

Uninsured, working-age Americans have 40 percent higher death risk than privately insured counterparts

You and your ilk are quite literally scum of the earth.

That's fucking retarded emotional dribble, over 2 million people in America die every year. ZOMG!!111!!!! if I don't have insurance my chance of survival are like ten times better!!!11!!! douchebaggery.

You're not addressing his points. His reference is a respected institution.
In case you didn't understand, his point is that 45000 people would have lived longer if they had receive the proper medical care.

You just wrote an emotional response.

 

[ja1484]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
You just paid for 2 deadbeats to have their hands stitched up.

I mean really, it was maybe $30 in materials, and $100 for the staff's time, ~25% for admin costs... The rest is profit to pay for the non-paying ER patients.

Bolded for emphasis. Out-of-pocket payers have the highest fee schedule of any type of patient. All the big insurance companies negotiate lower fees for guaranteed volume. ER patients don't pay and can't be denied care. The difference between staying open and going bankrupt has to be made up somewhere. Elective procedures and self-pay patients are where it happens.

Sucks, but is true.

I'm insured, but when I cut the shit out of my hand this past july, I just cleaned it up, stuffed in some anti-bio ointment, and sealed her up with a large bandage. Kept an eye on the area for signs of infection for a couple days.

Got a nice scar there now, but that's about it. It helps that I'm in a medical field, trained in wound care, and know how to perform an orthopaedic examination of the hand, but DIY FTW.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: FoBoT
so why would any Japanese want to be a doctor, what is the incentive if the govt. controls all the prices

Believe it or not, not everyone wants to become a doctor for just the money. Perhaps Japan subsidizes their medical education?

they would have to or nobody could afford to be a doctor.



a good Heath care system is not going to work in the US for years there are to many roadblocks. such as the cost of education, private health insurance, lobbyist (big one here) and curruption in congress. There is far to much money involved.

while i have sympathy for those without insurance i don't want to pay for them. I worked hard to save enough money so i can afford insurance and not work. I also have many health problems so insurance is not cheap. I have Never been denied anything with it either

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: FoBoT
so why would any Japanese want to be a doctor, what is the incentive if the govt. controls all the prices

Believe it or not, not everyone wants to become a doctor for just the money. Perhaps Japan subsidizes their medical education?

they would have to or nobody could afford to be a doctor.



a good Heath care system is not going to work in the US for years there are to many roadblocks. such as the cost of education, private health insurance, lobbyist (big one here) and curruption in congress. There is far to much money involved.

while i have sympathy for those without insurance i don't want to pay for them. I worked hard to save enough money so i can afford insurance and not work. I also have many health problems so insurance is not cheap. I have Never been denied anything with it either

You already do.