4 stitches in my hand cost $452

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Zstream

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Spidey I like you in OT but I've read the crap you spew in P&N and honestly you just seem to lose your marbles when the conversation gets political (shut up Phokus, so do you). You have absolutely no idea what it's like to live in a "socialist" country and you know nothing about the people here, so kindly keep your bigoted and highly offensive opinions to yourself.

My travels around the world have afforded me all I need to know about living in socialist countries. They fucking suck. You guys accept that shit as normal because you don't know anything better.

paying a few measily dollars in japan for stitches vs $452 here in the USA. Sorry, but you're dumb.

edit: I think even overnight hospital stays in Japan cost something like $10 a night.

WTF are you talking about? The Asian countries have the lowest rate of salary EVER. I am willing to bet you make under 50K and expect people to pay for your insurance. We have major differences, I can actually work to pay for my own insurance.

I do not need the Government to run more of my life unlike yourself.

Yada, Yada..we hear this from you and Spidey all the time.

You two apparently make so much more money than anyone else in P&N and we all must be poor slobs trying to dip our hands in your pocket...:laugh:

Too bad they don't have any more advanced surgery than a lobotomy to stop you from being such a prick.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel
What I've learned from this thread: if you get cheap/free healthcare, you are living in an Orwellian nightmare of a country where oppression and logjamming reign supreme.

Dude it's terrible here. Why won't somebody save me?

I tried to send a rescue party, but they couldn't find you on a map.

 

[DrawninwarD]

Originally posted by: Crono
I'm hoping the day comes quickly when robots can do this stuff safely and cheaply. No offense to those in the medical profession, but getting treated for stuff like this should not cost an arm and a leg.

"Stitching up your hand will cost around $1000."
"Oh I can't afford that."
"Well we can just remove your hand."
"Oh, okay. Is that free of charge?"
"No, we'll have to take your leg too."

And that is exactly how the costing an arm and leg expression came about. Yep. True story.

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: TruePaige
Yada, Yada..we hear this from you and Spidey all the time.

You two apparently make so much more money than anyone else in P&N and we all must be poor slobs trying to dip our hands in your pocket...:laugh:

Too bad they don't have any more advanced surgery than a lobotomy to stop you from being such a prick.

Just calling it as I see it.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Doesn't sound unreasonable at all to me. Think about all the cost associated with it. Someone has to pay for the thread that's holding your wound shut, the drugs that numbed your hand while they stitched you, the electricity to provide the light so they could see to stitch you, the staff that empties the container of sharps that contains the needle that injected the drugs into your hand, the office staff that processed your paperwork and the doctor that actually sewed you together. Not to mention the risk of lawsuit the doctor and medical facility face if you get an infection or suffer long term effects such as poor circulation due to a blood vessel that didn't heal or loss of feeling due to nerve damage or allergic reaction to the drugs they used to numb your hand.

Then why would the same procedure have cost $100 if it was done by a vetrinarian on a dog / cat / other pet ?

Because most humans' lives are more valuable than a dog. You won't see many multi-million dollar lawsuits against a vet if a dog loses it's paw because of a bad stitch job that got infected. On the other hand, a hospital probably needs quite a few hands to count the number of frivolous multi-million dollar lawsuits filed against it.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Doesn't sound unreasonable at all to me. Think about all the cost associated with it. Someone has to pay for the thread that's holding your wound shut, the drugs that numbed your hand while they stitched you, the electricity to provide the light so they could see to stitch you, the staff that empties the container of sharps that contains the needle that injected the drugs into your hand, the office staff that processed your paperwork and the doctor that actually sewed you together. Not to mention the risk of lawsuit the doctor and medical facility face if you get an infection or suffer long term effects such as poor circulation due to a blood vessel that didn't heal or loss of feeling due to nerve damage or allergic reaction to the drugs they used to numb your hand.

So those factors (most of which are a casual cost of doing business for ANY business (Admin, janitorial, inventory and utilities) somehow necessitate 1800/hr pay?

I want some of whatever you are smoking.

To be quite honest, I'm happy the medical industry doesn't work on hourly rates. I don't want to be in an ER and being rushed out the door because if they fix me up in 15 minutes they can still bill me for 30 because that's what the manual says.

What do you think is a reasonable price for treatment the OP received?

*EDIT* By the way... I had knee surgery this past January and the hospital billed for about $25,000 in total. I was there for about 5 hours between both surgeries. By your logic, they billed $5,000/hr. Was it worth it? Doesn't sound like it when you look at it as $5,000 per hour... but when you look at it as a higher quality of life for the next 25 years until I'll likely knee a total knee replacement, it sounds pretty reasonable. Even more reasonable when you consider the insurance company negotiated it down to under $10,000.

It's hard to pin down, because any number will sound out of place in the current health care environment we utilize.

But I think the OP should have paid $0 up front, and around $44 a month in taxes.

What reason is there to believe the government would be better at managing health care than insurance companies? Seriously... what about the US government's track record leads you to believe they're a better place to pool your money to ensure you receive health care when needed? The government seems content to run a system into the ground (Social Security and Medicare). The government likes to promise things they can't deliver. The fact that the insurance industry is driven by profit is what keeps it alive in a capitalist society.

That's why you set up a bureau of health services that has it's monetary reserves protected from government borrowing / re-budgeting. The money can come in but it can only go out for health care use.

How many people would be employed for that purpose, how much money would they make and who would pay their salary? They'd have to hire experts in every field to determine what a reasonable cost of care would be, and qualified people will not work for $15/hr sure since they likely spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on education to become an expert in their field. These people would need to remain employed to account for changes in technology and keep up with new procedures and update the price of treatment.

They'd have to regulate the drug industry even more to keep drugs reasonably priced which would lead to smaller profits which would lead to layoffs and unemployment.

The government wouldn't care about profit so they wouldn't care if they were paying inflated salaries and employing people who really only do an hour of work every day. For profit companies prevent this... "corporate fat cats" take a big cut of the profit, but they keep the system in check by trying to maximize their profits and minimizing waste.

Just look at the controversy over what happened with Blackwater... and watch what happens to GM down the road. It's not going to be pretty.

 

[Fenixgoon]

one thing i'm curious about with the whole healthcare debate, is what defines a basic service? it seems like people want everything covered. fine, but you will pay through the nose for it. heart surgery is routine today, but it is by no means basic. a few stitches, ear ache/infection.. yeah, i'd say those are basic.

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
one thing i'm curious about with the whole healthcare debate, is what defines a basic service? it seems like people want everything covered. fine, but you will pay through the nose for it. heart surgery is routine today, but it is by no means basic. a few stitches, ear ache/infection.. yeah, i'd say those are basic.

Good point. Should it cost the same to treat a scorpion sting in Maine as it does in Arizona? Should it cost the same to treat the bends in Hawaii as it does in Colorado? Sounds like we'd need another department in this bureau of health services to determine basic service in different regions.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

I had knee surgery this past January and the hospital billed for about $25,000 in total.

I was there for about 5 hours between both surgeries.

By your logic, they billed $5,000/hr. Was it worth it?

Doesn't sound like it when you look at it as $5,000 per hour... but when you look at it as a higher quality of life for the next 25 years until I'll likely knee a total knee replacement, it sounds pretty reasonable.

Even more reasonable when you consider the insurance company negotiated it down to under $10,000.

Well lucky fucking you. A good portion of the country has no access to insurance.

What if you were like the rest of us and had to pony up that fucking $25,000.

What would you be saying now Miss Primidonna?

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

I had knee surgery this past January and the hospital billed for about $25,000 in total.

I was there for about 5 hours between both surgeries.

By your logic, they billed $5,000/hr. Was it worth it?

Doesn't sound like it when you look at it as $5,000 per hour... but when you look at it as a higher quality of life for the next 25 years until I'll likely knee a total knee replacement, it sounds pretty reasonable.

Even more reasonable when you consider the insurance company negotiated it down to under $10,000.

Well lucky fucking you. A good portion of the country has no access to insurance.

What if you were like the rest of us and had to pony up that fucking $25,000.

What would you be saying now Miss Primidonna?

Or the ones that have insurance and they refuse to cover it? There's millions of those as well.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Or the ones that have insurance and they refuse to cover it? There's millions of those as well.

Heh. I had double hernia surgery over 6 months ago. 2 and 1/2 of the 5 claims have been 100% denied. The cost for 5 hours in the surgery center (2 hours of surgery) was near $17,000. I've paid $1,700 out of pocket and there are over $6,000 of denied bills that I have not seen "yet" (but sure they will appear if the insurance company doesn't pony up).


The cost of the insurance is over $13,000 per year (my and my employer contributions).

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
one thing i'm curious about with the whole healthcare debate, is what defines a basic service? it seems like people want everything covered. fine, but you will pay through the nose for it. heart surgery is routine today, but it is by no means basic. a few stitches, ear ache/infection.. yeah, i'd say those are basic.

Good point. Should it cost the same to treat a scorpion sting in Maine as it does in Arizona? Should it cost the same to treat the bends in Hawaii as it does in Colorado? Sounds like we'd need another department in this bureau of health services to determine basic service in different regions.

Actually, this is no problem.
Insurance companies pool data and have the U&C (usual and customary) fees broken down into zip codes for almost all procedures.
For something that is outside the realm of prior history, claims can be paid based on time spent treating, cost of special drugs, etc. All insurance companies have doctors who review claims like these.

And as to whether a mdeical procedure should be covered, there are standard definitions. Of course you would be treated for a scorpion bite, or the bends, under a basic plan. No matter where you live.

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
one thing i'm curious about with the whole healthcare debate, is what defines a basic service? it seems like people want everything covered. fine, but you will pay through the nose for it. heart surgery is routine today, but it is by no means basic. a few stitches, ear ache/infection.. yeah, i'd say those are basic.

Good point. Should it cost the same to treat a scorpion sting in Maine as it does in Arizona? Should it cost the same to treat the bends in Hawaii as it does in Colorado? Sounds like we'd need another department in this bureau of health services to determine basic service in different regions.

Actually, this is no problem.
Insurance companies pool data and have the U&C (usual and customary) fees broken down into zip codes for almost all procedures.
For something that is outside the realm of prior history, claims can be paid based on time spent treating, cost of special drugs, etc. All insurance companies have doctors who review claims like these.

And as to whether a mdeical procedure should be covered, there are standard definitions. Of course you would be treated for a scorpion bite, or the bends, under a basic plan. No matter where you live.

That is a separate division in a HC company, they do not use doctor's to review a claim. A supervisory board reviews new procedures and passes them down.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Zstream

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
one thing i'm curious about with the whole healthcare debate, is what defines a basic service? it seems like people want everything covered. fine, but you will pay through the nose for it. heart surgery is routine today, but it is by no means basic. a few stitches, ear ache/infection.. yeah, i'd say those are basic.

Good point. Should it cost the same to treat a scorpion sting in Maine as it does in Arizona? Should it cost the same to treat the bends in Hawaii as it does in Colorado? Sounds like we'd need another department in this bureau of health services to determine basic service in different regions.

Actually, this is no problem.
Insurance companies pool data and have the U&C (usual and customary) fees broken down into zip codes for almost all procedures.
For something that is outside the realm of prior history, claims can be paid based on time spent treating, cost of special drugs, etc. All insurance companies have doctors who review claims like these.

And as to whether a mdeical procedure should be covered, there are standard definitions. Of course you would be treated for a scorpion bite, or the bends, under a basic plan. No matter where you live.

That is a separate division in a HC company, they do not use doctor's to review a claim. A supervisory board reviews new procedures and passes them down.

Actually they do use in house doctors to review claims. The can use an outside company if they choose, or if the group requests they do. I used to manage one of those review companies.
Using an outside review lets the insurance company say they didn't make the decision and therefore its unbiased.

As to new procedures, the FDA determines when a procedure goes from "experimental" to safe and effective. Though they take many years to do so. This leaves the insurance company to make the decision on whether to pay for it. Insurance companies have "secret" guidelines for these, which are considered proprietary informantion and subscribers and even groups purchasing the insurance plans can't find out. They usually couch it in terms of "medical necessity and effectivenes as determined by medical review" or some some languages.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

I had knee surgery this past January and the hospital billed for about $25,000 in total.

I was there for about 5 hours between both surgeries.

By your logic, they billed $5,000/hr. Was it worth it?

Doesn't sound like it when you look at it as $5,000 per hour... but when you look at it as a higher quality of life for the next 25 years until I'll likely knee a total knee replacement, it sounds pretty reasonable.

Even more reasonable when you consider the insurance company negotiated it down to under $10,000.

Well lucky fucking you. A good portion of the country has no access to insurance.

What if you were like the rest of us and had to pony up that fucking $25,000.

What would you be saying now Miss Primidonna?

I'd say something like you could always get a job and health insurance and spend less time bitching about it.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: zerocool84
Cut the back of my hand on some broken glass today. You could see he blood vessels and everything else but wasn't super deep but you could see all the stuff inside and since it was glass it was a nice clean cut. They injected the stuff to numb it, tetanus shot, and 4 stitches cost $452. I was like WTF!!! I don't have insurance as my job doesn't offer it and just recently got my job so haven't gotten any yet. I didn't even go to a hospital. It was just urgent care.

Hand 1

Hand 2

Hand 3

You cut all three of your right hands in one day?! Trippy :Q

 

[Modelworks]

The fact that people see $450 for 4 stitches as reasonable shows how bad things really are. Health care isn't about what it actually cost or should cost anymore it is about what is the going rate. Peoples health has become a commodity not a service. I am all for people earning a living but to mark things up just because you know people will have to use them because they have no choice but to get sick is wrong. I guess all the farmers having a hard time should take advantage too. They should start selling food at 2x or 3x what they do now, I mean people will have to pay it . Which is why people can't afford it.

 

[Tiamat]

yeah, without any health insurance, that price sounds pretty normal.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
The fact that people see $450 for 4 stitches as reasonable shows how bad things really are. Health care isn't about what it actually cost or should cost anymore it is about what is the going rate. Peoples health has become a commodity not a service. I am all for people earning a living but to mark things up just because you know people will have to use them because they have no choice but to get sick is wrong. I guess all the farmers having a hard time should take advantage too. They should start selling food at 2x or 3x what they do now, I mean people will have to pay it . Which is why people can't afford it.

They do sell food high. It's called capitalism. This is america, if you are looking for a socialist or communist government you need to move.

If not you will have to pay the price the market bears.

One way to lower healthcare costs is to limit lawsuits. No one wants that though it seems.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Modelworks
The fact that people see $450 for 4 stitches as reasonable shows how bad things really are. Health care isn't about what it actually cost or should cost anymore it is about what is the going rate. Peoples health has become a commodity not a service. I am all for people earning a living but to mark things up just because you know people will have to use them because they have no choice but to get sick is wrong. I guess all the farmers having a hard time should take advantage too. They should start selling food at 2x or 3x what they do now, I mean people will have to pay it . Which is why people can't afford it.

They do sell food high. It's called capitalism. This is america, if you are looking for a socialist or communist government you need to move.

If not you will have to pay the price the market bears.

One way to lower healthcare costs is to limit lawsuits. No one wants that though it seems.

That is the one area where capitalism fails. To hold someones life in your hand and say you can only live if you pay me what I want, is not what the founding fathers had in mind. They relied on the fact people had morals then and would never have considered people being treated the way they are now. Socialism is not the answer, but neither is free reign to charge whatever you feel like. I would be in favor of regulation in regards to how much profit can be gained. When the market can regulate itself the government should stay out of it, this is one area though where it is clear it cannot be left to regulate itself.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Modelworks
The fact that people see $450 for 4 stitches as reasonable shows how bad things really are. Health care isn't about what it actually cost or should cost anymore it is about what is the going rate. Peoples health has become a commodity not a service. I am all for people earning a living but to mark things up just because you know people will have to use them because they have no choice but to get sick is wrong. I guess all the farmers having a hard time should take advantage too. They should start selling food at 2x or 3x what they do now, I mean people will have to pay it . Which is why people can't afford it.

They do sell food high. It's called capitalism. This is america, if you are looking for a socialist or communist government you need to move.

If not you will have to pay the price the market bears.

One way to lower healthcare costs is to limit lawsuits. No one wants that though it seems.

That is the one area where capitalism fails. To hold someones life in your hand and say you can only live if you pay me what I want, is not what the founding fathers had in mind. They relied on the fact people had morals then and would never have considered people being treated the way they are now. Socialism is not the answer, but neither is free reign to charge whatever you feel like. I would be in favor of regulation in regards to how much profit can be gained. When the market can regulate itself the government should stay out of it, this is one area though where it is clear it cannot be left to regulate itself.

The poor couldn't afford medicine even then. You need to check your facts.

Old America was a lot more colder place to someone without money, you were left to die on the streets and NO ONE would bat an eye.

 

[FoBoT]

dude, that is just a flesh wound

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Originally posted by: alkemyst
This is america, if you are looking for a socialist or communist government you need to move.

http://imgur.com/5RkJK.png

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

I had knee surgery this past January and the hospital billed for about $25,000 in total.

I was there for about 5 hours between both surgeries.

By your logic, they billed $5,000/hr. Was it worth it?

Doesn't sound like it when you look at it as $5,000 per hour... but when you look at it as a higher quality of life for the next 25 years until I'll likely knee a total knee replacement, it sounds pretty reasonable.

Even more reasonable when you consider the insurance company negotiated it down to under $10,000.

Well lucky fucking you. A good portion of the country has no access to insurance.

What if you were like the rest of us and had to pony up that fucking $25,000.

What would you be saying now Miss Primidonna?

Please... I'm in an entry level job. There's nothing special about my situation. I don't come from a rich family. I'm in debt. I took the necessary steps to ensure my physical and financial well being... maybe that does make me special in today's world...

If you don't have health insurance it's your fault. Not mine. Not the US Government's. Not your neighbor's. If the company you work for doesn't offer health insurance or your self employed, there's private health insurance as well as personal savings accounts if you don't care for the high premiums and deductibles of private health insurance.

In short, be a grown up and take responsibility for you and your family's well being.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Jeff7181

I had knee surgery this past January and the hospital billed for about $25,000 in total.

I was there for about 5 hours between both surgeries.

By your logic, they billed $5,000/hr. Was it worth it?

Doesn't sound like it when you look at it as $5,000 per hour... but when you look at it as a higher quality of life for the next 25 years until I'll likely knee a total knee replacement, it sounds pretty reasonable.

Even more reasonable when you consider the insurance company negotiated it down to under $10,000.

Well lucky fucking you. A good portion of the country has no access to insurance.

What if you were like the rest of us and had to pony up that fucking $25,000.

What would you be saying now Miss Primidonna?

Please... I'm in an entry level job. There's nothing special about my situation. I don't come from a rich family. I'm in debt. I took the necessary steps to ensure my physical and financial well being... maybe that does make me special in today's world...

If you don't have health insurance it's your fault. Not mine. Not the US Government's. Not your neighbor's. If the company you work for doesn't offer health insurance or your self employed, there's private health insurance as well as personal savings accounts if you don't care for the high premiums and deductibles of private health insurance.

In short, be a grown up and take responsibility for you and your family's well being.

My thoughts exactly. There are reasonable plans and options out there. The majority of people that say they can't afford health care don't want to give up some of the luxuries in their life (a new car is a luxury, traveling for vacation are a luxury, so is the array of electronics that people seem to think are necessities) so they can afford decent health care. If you haven't given up those things yet then you want them more than you want to protect your health. That's your choice and other people shouldn't have to subsidize your choice.