4 stitches in my hand cost $452

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Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,995
776
126
Originally posted by: Jimbo
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: Jimbo
I found some cancer survival rate comparisons that look interesting.
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba596

Having had cancer and living here in the USA, I have to say the care I received was second to none; I honestly don't think I could have received better care than had I been The President.

In my instance I was seen by my doctor, referred to a specialist, diagnosed (with a second and third opinion), all on the same Thursday (it was a busy day). I was in surgery on Friday, and went home on Sunday.

Disclaimer:

The National Center for Policy Analysis (NCPA) is an American non-profit conservative think tank

I could care less if they are into anarcho-fascism.
Is there a problem with their data?
Is anyone refuting it?

Yes, conservative think tanks have a nasty habit about lying about cancer survival rates between the US and other countries:

Case in point, Rudy Guliani used this guy's analysis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gratzer from the Manhatten institute) to conclude that in England, you have a 44% chance of prostate cancer survival, but every prostate cancer specialist attacked them for extrapolating data that was impossible to make that sort of conclusion.

On July 31, 2007, one day after naming his health care advisors, Giuliani, the 2008 Republican presidential front-runner, unveiled his health care plan in Rochester, New Hampshire, attacked the plans of Democratic presidential candidates as socialized medicine that was European and socialist,[26] and?citing incorrect numbers?said his chances of surviving prostate cancer had been 82% in the United States, but would have only been 44% in England under socialized medicine[27] (the actual five-year relative survival rates for localized prostate cancer were comparable in the two countries: 100% in the U.S. and 99% in England).[28] Giuliani repeated his false claims in campaign speeches for three months[29][30][31] before making them in a radio advertisement.[32][33]

The Washington Post[51] and FactCheck.org[52] again consulted leading prostate cancer experts and cancer statisticians who found no merit in Gratzer's response. Peter Albertsen, professor and chief of urology at the University of Connecticut Health Center called calculations of "survival rates" from cancer mortality and incidence statistics such as those by Gratzer, Goodman, O'Neill, and McCaughey "complete nonsense" and a "very dangerous thing to do."[52] Gerard Anderson, professor of health policy and management at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health said: "You would get an F in epidemiology at Johns Hopkins if you did that calculation."[51]

Also:

For 14 of 16 types of cancer, a European country had the highest survival rate; for 2 of 16 types of cancer: colorectal cancer[49] and prostate cancer,[50] the U.S. had the highest survival rate.

 

ric1287

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2005
4,845
0
0
Originally posted by: Mike Gayner
Originally posted by: ric1287
Originally posted by: Mike Gayner
Originally posted by: ric1287
Originally posted by: Mike Gayner
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Spidey I like you in OT but I've read the crap you spew in P&N and honestly you just seem to lose your marbles when the conversation gets political (shut up Phokus, so do you). You have absolutely no idea what it's like to live in a "socialist" country and you know nothing about the people here, so kindly keep your bigoted and highly offensive opinions to yourself.

My travels around the world have afforded me all I need to know about living in socialist countries. They fucking suck. You guys accept that shit as normal because you don't know anything better.

paying a few measily dollars in japan for stitches vs $452 here in the USA. Sorry, but you're dumb.

edit: I think even overnight hospital stays in Japan cost something like $10 a night.

I got punched over by some dickwad in town here in NZ - fell backward and hit my head on the pavement and was KO'd for a few mins. Got picked up by an ambulance, got a head X-ray and stayed in hospital overnight, got sent home with some pain meds. Didn't cost me anything, nor should it.

so you don't pay taxes then right? since it cost you nothing

The point is that health care isn't something people should miss out on because they can't afford it. So if I had been knocked over, and it turned out I had a brain bleed but couldn't afford treatment, should I be denied care?

It's better to live happy and sound in the knowledge that if the worst should happen (chronic illness), your country is there to help you. And you don't have to bankrupt yourself for it.

At the end of the day, that's why we pay taxes. So I take it you don't pay taxes? Oh wait, yes you do, then you also pay out the ass for care as well.

Well I look at it this way: we have so much other shit to fix here, so much debt, so much waste...the last thing we need (now) is a massive sink hole of spending that will most likely waste massive amounts of money. Fix all the needless waste, then spend.

And it may be heartless, but where does it say anyone is "entitled" to health care? If you don't do anything useful for society (paying taxes), why do you "deserve" anything?

You think that paying taxes is the only useful thing a person can do for society? So you think nothing of the person who lives on a shoestring to provide charitable work for people in need?

Paying taxes was an example, and if you tell me a large portion of the insurance-less are just hard workers for charities...bullshit. I'm talking about the shitload of people who sit on their ass all day and do nothing, you do nothing, you get nothing.
 

TruePaige

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2006
9,878
2
0

Jimbo

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 1999
2,641
0
76
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Originally posted by: Jimbo
Phokus, you tried to refute a study, with a Wikipedia link, that cites an oped from some newspaper in Florida?

Crap.

If we are going to play that game then I raise you a magazine article!
http://www.city-journal.org/ht...nadian_healthcare.html

Seriously, just give me something real.
Anything!

Well cited WebMD article that backs Japanese and France top cancer survival rates.

http://www.webmd.com/cancer/ne...-rates-vary-by-country

Thanks!
I'll read it.

 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
Originally posted by: zerocool84
Cut the back of my hand on some broken glass today. You could see he blood vessels and everything else but wasn't super deep but you could see all the stuff inside and since it was glass it was a nice clean cut. They injected the stuff to numb it, tetanus shot, and 4 stitches cost $452. I was like WTF!!! I don't have insurance as my job doesn't offer it and just recently got my job so haven't gotten any yet. I didn't even go to a hospital. It was just urgent care.

a real man would have took a needle and thread and done the stiching himself!!
 

TruePaige

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2006
9,878
2
0
Originally posted by: Jimbo
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Originally posted by: Jimbo
Phokus, you tried to refute a study, with a Wikipedia link, that cites an oped from some newspaper in Florida?

Crap.

If we are going to play that game then I raise you a magazine article!
http://www.city-journal.org/ht...nadian_healthcare.html

Seriously, just give me something real.
Anything!

Well cited WebMD article that backs Japanese and France top cancer survival rates.

http://www.webmd.com/cancer/ne...-rates-vary-by-country

Thanks!
I'll read it.

No problem.
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,674
482
126
Originally posted by: Ronstang
For future reference if it is a very clean cut made by a knife or glass, and not a tear, you can easily fix it yourself. Simply wash the cut with water and then hydrogen peroxide, dry off, and tape shut. You can use regular medical tape or get those special reinforced strips, it just depends on where you cut yourself. A clean cut should at least seal itself in a day or two and then you just have to be careful while it fully heals if you want to remove the tape....or leave it in place.

I cut all eight of my finger tips almost to the bone on a sharp piece of sheet metal once, it was like I had little flaps of finger hanging down. I cleaned them, taped them, and in a couple days was able to remove the tape. This was about 13 years ago....I have no scars and it cost me nada since I already had the tape.

Hmmmm, really worth risking the loss of fingers or a limb over a DIY patch-up job? I'm thinking no.
 

Ballatician

Golden Member
Dec 6, 2007
1,985
0
0
My literature searching leads me to believe the US leads the way in success rates/rates of mortality when it comes to very extreme conditions, disease or less common fringe conditions. For the more common pathologies, it seems we are lagging. That frontline video/website someone posted earlier is a very good overview of healthcare systems around the country.
 

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
18,368
11
81
Doesn't sound unreasonable at all to me. Think about all the cost associated with it. Someone has to pay for the thread that's holding your wound shut, the drugs that numbed your hand while they stitched you, the electricity to provide the light so they could see to stitch you, the staff that empties the container of sharps that contains the needle that injected the drugs into your hand, the office staff that processed your paperwork and the doctor that actually sewed you together. Not to mention the risk of lawsuit the doctor and medical facility face if you get an infection or suffer long term effects such as poor circulation due to a blood vessel that didn't heal or loss of feeling due to nerve damage or allergic reaction to the drugs they used to numb your hand.
 

TruePaige

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2006
9,878
2
0
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Doesn't sound unreasonable at all to me. Think about all the cost associated with it. Someone has to pay for the thread that's holding your wound shut, the drugs that numbed your hand while they stitched you, the electricity to provide the light so they could see to stitch you, the staff that empties the container of sharps that contains the needle that injected the drugs into your hand, the office staff that processed your paperwork and the doctor that actually sewed you together. Not to mention the risk of lawsuit the doctor and medical facility face if you get an infection or suffer long term effects such as poor circulation due to a blood vessel that didn't heal or loss of feeling due to nerve damage or allergic reaction to the drugs they used to numb your hand.

So those factors (most of which are a casual cost of doing business for ANY business (Admin, janitorial, inventory and utilities) somehow necessitate 1800/hr pay?

I want some of whatever you are smoking.
 

Beanie46

Senior member
Feb 16, 2009
527
0
0
I guess in Spidey's world, the U.S. is doing just fine with health care. And I guess he's right in some sense in that the U.S. has some of the most advanced medical care in the world.

So, why then is the U.S. lagging well behind most other industrialized nations in infant mortality rates? The U.S. is ranked 29th......thank goodness there's Poland and Slovakia! At least we're doing better than they are....oh, my bad. We're tied with them in infant mortality rates. But we're doing better than Chile and Russia!! Even so, we're doing much worse than countries like Cuba, Hungary, Portugal, the Czech Republic, and all the major nations of the world (incl. Norway, Germany, Britian, France, Singapore, Hong Kong, Israel, Italy, Holland, Australia, Scotland, Ireland, Denmark, Greece, Spain, Sweden, Japan, Finland, Spain, Switzerland, Belgium, Denmark, Austria, New Zealand, and Ireland.)

(Statistics are from 2004, the latest year of worldwide infant mortality rates available.....) http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/07/health/07stat.html


There is a major problem with our health care system. And that is it's being run by companies trying to make a profit from delivering health care payments to providers. When you have that scenario, you have costs that skyrocket. And that's seen in the over 47 million uninsured people in this country who cannot afford health insurance. Sure, some included in that number are illegal aliens who wouldn't buy any in the first place, but the overwhelming majority of those are U.S. citizens who simply cannot afford the upwards of $300/mo to buy single person coverage out of pocket. It's simply unaffordable.

Now why is it so darned expensive to get health insurance if you're paying for it yourself.....or even via work? Simply put, the huge numbers of uninsured and their health care costs are being transferred to the insured, so essentially we all are already paying for everyone's health care, it's just the "tax" is being hidden in your insurance premiums. The uninsured do seek out health care when seriously ill.....they simply avoid MD's offices and urgent care facilities as their choice of care givers because of insurance/payment requirements. And they avoid seeking care for minor problems, at least what seem to be minor initially. But when the minor problem eventually escalates to a major health problem, the choice the uninsured population is left with for care is the emergency room at the local hospital, the absolute most expensive route to obtain care.

And since ER's are expressly forbidden to refuse to see anyone who comes in the door seeking care, everyone gets seen no matter the ability to pay. Well, in truth, this applies only to facilities that accept Federal dollars/payments for things like Medicare/Medicaid, but once a medical facility accepts payments from those entities, they fall under the Federal law requiring them to see anyone, payments be damned.

So, the hospital absorbs the costs of these non-paying patients. And while it's true that some hospitals do receive payments from local government entities to help defray the cost of indigent care, the vast majority of their cost is shifted to those with insurance. Why else would a box of Kleenex cost $10 or the other horrendous charges for seemingly innocuous items like IV tubing, IV solutions, cotton balls, Chux, etc.? It's just cost shifting and we all pay for it.

And remember, these costs are only what the hospital is shifting. Physicians are having to do the same thing. MD's are typically not directly employed by hospitals but are independent contractors working in hospitals, although some may be employed by the hospital, specifically those staffing the ER. But again, the vast majority of physicians are independent contractors with hospital privileges, meaning they bring in the paying customers, or patients, and by doing that, allow the hospital to generate some cash flow. That's why you get a hospital bill from a stay and then get separate bills from a radiologist (if you had any radiological services performed and had the results read) or from the surgeon or your attending physician.

And even having health insurance is no panacea for the average patient, unfortunately. In a new study published by the American Journal of Medicine, it was found in a random survey of over 2300 bankrupty filings during the first half of 2007, using a conservative definition, 62.1% of all bankruptcies in 2007 were medical; 92% of these medical debtors had medical debts over $5000, or 10% of pretax family income. The rest met criteria for medical bankruptcy because they had lost significant income due to illness or mortgaged a home to pay medical bills. Most medical debtors were well educated, owned homes, and had middle-class occupations. Three quarters (75%) had health insurance. Using identical definitions in 2001 and 2007, the share of bankruptcies attributable to medical problems rose by 49.6%. In logistic regression analysis controlling for demographic factors, the odds that a bankruptcy had a medical cause was 2.38-fold higher in 2007 than in 2001.

Sources: http://www.examiner.com/x-1575...ue-to-healthcare-costs
http://www.pnhp.org/new_bankru...dy/Bankruptcy-2009.pdf


Now I know that the conservative Fraser Institute came up with differing conclusions in a study earlier this year, but what was skewed about that "review" of bankruptcy filings was that the Fraser Institute only looked at court filings and records and used only that to determine if the person(s) filing for bankruptcy had medical reasons for filing. Now this is where it gets really intriguing?and may go some distance toward explaining the Fraser study findings. According to the Journal study, other studies have been overlooking bankruptcies related to medical costs and jobs lost to illness because of the way the studies were designed.

Other studies on bankruptcy were problematic because they were based solely on court records. Even though they showed that rates of medical bankruptcy were substantial, these court-based studies often understated medical bankruptcies. Why? Many medical debts were not recognizable on court records.

Many medical debts were disguised as credit card debt or mortgages. Most medical debtors charged health care they couldn?t afford to credit cards or they mortgaged their homes to pay for medical bills. In addition, debts due to hospitalization or doctor visits?which were turned over to collection agencies?were not usually recognizable on court records.

Another set of weirdness in the Fraser study was the fact that the "study" claimed the Canadian and American health care access and conditions were essentially the same and yet are vastly different. Strange, that. In fact, Fraser claimed in their findings on Page 2 of the study that, "Drug insurance is structured almost identically, so exposure to drug costs is similar in both countries.", which is utter bullshit as we know drug costs in Canada are much lower than in the U.S.

Fraser's study also found that, "Access to medical care for people who experience long-term unemployment, disability from illness, and chronic low-income status is practically the same in both countries, being facilitated by non-profit, publicly funded community health centers (NACHC, 2009) and public programs like Medicaid in the US, and government-run systems in Canada." And we know that is utter crap, too, as the problem in the U.S. is just the fact that the unemployed and low-income populations in the U.S. typically have no insurance nor access to medical care outside of the aforementioned ER visits, but I guess that's just the non-profit publicly funded community health care centers the Fraser study is referring to.

In other words, the Fraser paper seems to contradict itself: the whole point of the argument relies on the idea that the Canadian health-care system is so other, so foreign, so different from the U.S. system.

But, I guess this all flies out the door to the irrational that still cling to the notion that our health care system is infallible and has nothing needing to be changed about it at all. I just wonder what the tune being sung would be if/when the people singing the tired "Nothing wrong here, why change?" song get hit with a $10,000 set of bills from a $100,000 acute care and rehab costs from suffering a stroke? Or have to start begging for handouts because their precious health insurance won't pay for a bone marrow transplant to cure adult onset leukemia, a treatment that'll run in six figures easily.

 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,850
29,642
146
Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
Originally posted by: Jumpem
The price doesn't seem unreasonable as far as medical costs go.

Ya, that seems cheap. But then, I would have wrapped it in paper towels and duct tape.

Krazy Glue is faster + more effective.
 

Balt

Lifer
Mar 12, 2000
12,674
482
126
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Doesn't sound unreasonable at all to me. Think about all the cost associated with it. Someone has to pay for the thread that's holding your wound shut, the drugs that numbed your hand while they stitched you, the electricity to provide the light so they could see to stitch you, the staff that empties the container of sharps that contains the needle that injected the drugs into your hand, the office staff that processed your paperwork and the doctor that actually sewed you together. Not to mention the risk of lawsuit the doctor and medical facility face if you get an infection or suffer long term effects such as poor circulation due to a blood vessel that didn't heal or loss of feeling due to nerve damage or allergic reaction to the drugs they used to numb your hand.

There are a lot of different costs associated with putting coffee in a container and transporting it too, but they don't add up to $452/lb. Most of the things you described don't add up to much, just a couple of them.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,850
29,642
146
I should admit that back when I was in school, I once sliced the top of a foot with a shard of glass one morning. bastard never stopped bleeding, so that night I drove 30 minutes away to have my brother sew it up in his bathroom sink. used Lidocaine and sutures and everything.

Who said you need to pay for good medical care?

 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,850
29,642
146
Originally posted by: spidey07
And you somehow think that is expensive? And why the fuck don't you have insurance? You choose to not have insurance, so pay for your care. You CHOOSE not have insurance, so deal with the consequences of your CHOICE.

How about this? I'll stitch you up for 200 bucks.

sigh....

Spidey:
you really are fucking retarded sometimes.

I mean, you seem like a decent enough guy sometimes, but you live in this bubble. You really are, without a doubt, clueless about 40% of the things you blather on about on these forums.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,850
29,642
146
Originally posted by: umbrella39
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: Mike Gayner
/relaxes not having to worry about insurance and healthcare costs.

How's it feel to be a slave and not control your own destiny.

What say you slave? Don't worry, I'll take care of you. Now get back to work.

How does it feel to have health insurance yet still suffer from mental retardation?

:beer:
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,850
29,642
146
Originally posted by: Ronstang
Originally posted by: Mike Gayner
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: Mike Gayner
/relaxes not having to worry about insurance and healthcare costs.

How's it feel to be a slave and not control your own destiny.

What say you slave? Don't worry, I'll take care of you. Now get back to work.

In what sense am I a slave? In that I work hard all week to pay exorbitant costs to medical corporations whenever I get injured? Oh wait, that would be you, where your healthcare costs more than twice as much as ours for the same level of cover.

Since you live in a socialist country you as a population have been dumbed down for so long when it comes to personal liberty and choice you couldn't possibly understand. Your government has won. You are also ignorant if you think the costs don't affect you....they are just indirect and if health care costs rise you either pay more taxes or receive less or inferior care. I guess you just like paying taxes or you are one of those at the bottom of the rung so to you it is all gain since you don't pay for much but consume all you like.

go back to God and gun clinging and leave the rest of us Modern progressives to get on with life, worry about the real problems?
 

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
18,368
11
81
Originally posted by: TruePaige
Originally posted by: Jeff7181
Doesn't sound unreasonable at all to me. Think about all the cost associated with it. Someone has to pay for the thread that's holding your wound shut, the drugs that numbed your hand while they stitched you, the electricity to provide the light so they could see to stitch you, the staff that empties the container of sharps that contains the needle that injected the drugs into your hand, the office staff that processed your paperwork and the doctor that actually sewed you together. Not to mention the risk of lawsuit the doctor and medical facility face if you get an infection or suffer long term effects such as poor circulation due to a blood vessel that didn't heal or loss of feeling due to nerve damage or allergic reaction to the drugs they used to numb your hand.

So those factors (most of which are a casual cost of doing business for ANY business (Admin, janitorial, inventory and utilities) somehow necessitate 1800/hr pay?

I want some of whatever you are smoking.

To be quite honest, I'm happy the medical industry doesn't work on hourly rates. I don't want to be in an ER and being rushed out the door because if they fix me up in 15 minutes they can still bill me for 30 because that's what the manual says.

What do you think is a reasonable price for treatment the OP received?

*EDIT* By the way... I had knee surgery this past January and the hospital billed for about $25,000 in total. I was there for about 5 hours between both surgeries. By your logic, they billed $5,000/hr. Was it worth it? Doesn't sound like it when you look at it as $5,000 per hour... but when you look at it as a higher quality of life for the next 25 years until I'll likely knee a total knee replacement, it sounds pretty reasonable. Even more reasonable when you consider the insurance company negotiated it down to under $10,000.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,850
29,642
146
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: Ronstang
Originally posted by: Mike Gayner
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: Mike Gayner
/relaxes not having to worry about insurance and healthcare costs.

How's it feel to be a slave and not control your own destiny.

What say you slave? Don't worry, I'll take care of you. Now get back to work.

In what sense am I a slave? In that I work hard all week to pay exorbitant costs to medical corporations whenever I get injured? Oh wait, that would be you, where your healthcare costs more than twice as much as ours for the same level of cover.

Since you live in a socialist country you as a population have been dumbed down for so long when it comes to personal liberty and choice you couldn't possibly understand. Your government has won. You are also ignorant if you think the costs don't affect you....they are just indirect and if health care costs rise you either pay more taxes or receive less or inferior care. I guess you just like paying taxes or you are one of those at the bottom of the rung so to you it is all gain since you don't pay for much but consume all you like.

Oh no, 'socialist' countries spend half as much on healthcare as we do and THEY'RE the suckers, jesus christ you're retarded

seriously, if only 5% of these anti-reformers stepped outside of their shallow borders and actually LEARNED FOR THEMSELVES (something they claim to endorse--though they never practice it--you know...FREEDOM), they'd see that healthcare is far cheaper, far more efficient, and universally praised in every other leading nation.

I say it would only take 5% of them to convince the rest, b/c 100% of them already receive their thought patterns from the 0.002% that blab this BS on AM radio.
 

RESmonkey

Diamond Member
May 6, 2007
4,818
2
0
Originally posted by: Crono
I'm hoping the day comes quickly when robots can do this stuff safely and cheaply. No offense to those in the medical profession, but getting treated for stuff like this should not cost an arm and a leg.

Pun intended ? LOL
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,850
29,642
146
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: Phokus


This is YOUR america, spidey:

http://www.harvardscience.harv...d-lack-health-coverage

"New study finds 45,000 deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage"

Uninsured, working-age Americans have 40 percent higher death risk than privately insured counterparts


You and your ilk are quite literally scum of the earth.

Can't provide for yourself means you should die. Darwin rules. Survival of the fittest.

Again, you don't understand Darwinism and you also don't understand what fitness means in terms of natural selection.

"Social Darwinism" is less valid than Phrenology (but only slightly more valid than Chiropracty). If you're going to spread more Fud, at least use terms that hold up to modern understanding of science and economic theory.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,077
136
Originally posted by: Ronstang
For future reference if it is a very clean cut made by a knife or glass, and not a tear, you can easily fix it yourself. Simply wash the cut with water and then hydrogen peroxide, dry off, and tape shut.

As long as the cut is superficial, hydrogen peroxide most likely won't be bad for it, but you DO NOT want to use hydrogen peroxide on any deep lacerations.

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Originally posted by: Bignate603
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Originally posted by: joshsquall
Seems fairly reasonable, given the costs for materials, labor, and overhead.

No, that's not a reasonable cost at all.

What are you talking about? The cost of the labor isn't exactly cheap, you don't want just anybody stitching you up. Not to mention the cost of good medical supplies.

$450 to avoid longterm pain, problems with healing, or massive infection is pretty reasonable.

So $450 for a syringe, its contents, some string, and ~15 mins of labor is reasonable?

Thats only $1800 an hour.

Reasonable? I suppose it depends on your point of view, but could we stop trivializing the care? Someone needed to be trained to know how to properly administer the analgesic (what to use, how much to use, where to use it), and to properly suture. Is this an incredibly difficult task? Nope, not really, but if it's so easy, why don't we just handle it at home with a needle and thread?

I really don't plan to get into the health care reform war raging here, but I'd just like to say, rather vaguely that some of the statistics that get thrown around are useless without proper understanding. Take infant mortality for example, does the US lag behind? Yes. But you must look at the factors that make up that statistic. It is not reported in the same way by all countries due to different definitions of live births. Some countries (like the US) count a live birth as soon as the baby leaves the mother alive. If it dies 5 minutes later, it's an infant death. Other countries may not consider it a live birth until the baby has been alive for a week or more, so in those countries a baby dying in the first week would not count against their IMR. Add to this the fact that the US has a history of performing births in situations where other countries may abort (due to complications) and you have another component. Long story short, IMR is more complex than it may seem - as with any statistic.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,850
29,642
146
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Spidey I like you in OT but I've read the crap you spew in P&N and honestly you just seem to lose your marbles when the conversation gets political (shut up Phokus, so do you). You have absolutely no idea what it's like to live in a "socialist" country and you know nothing about the people here, so kindly keep your bigoted and highly offensive opinions to yourself.

My travels around the world have afforded me all I need to know about living in socialist countries. They fucking suck. You guys accept that shit as normal because you don't know anything better.

My GF lived under Soviet Occupation for the first 20 years of her life. Many of her family members were killed by Stalin.

YOU HAVE NO FUCKING CLUE WHAT SOCIALISM IS.

To sit in your comfy little trailer in rural Alabama and scream that OMG FRANCE is teh COMMIES! does a great disservice to the 200 million + people that died at the hands of real criminals. Not to mention the soldiers of free countries that fought and died to prevent that poison from spreading anywhere.

now, kindly go and shoot yourself, or at least silence the fucking lies and ignorance that becomes your MO when things get political.

Seriously: FUCK YOU.

 
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