40 day fast/liquid diet: Is it safe?

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queenrobot

Platinum Member
Aug 20, 2007
2,061
0
0
I am on Weight Watchers. I started about 45 days ago and am down 11 pounds. My problem area is my thighs, which have lost a little but I know they can be so much smaller. I have tried different diets over the years, but WW seems to be the best for me. I have a coworker who does a week long fast once a month and has lost 30 pounds in the last 6 months. To each is own I guess.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
You're setting up a false dichotomy between ultimate strength and ultimate body. If you lift heavy and eat right you will end up with a body that will be very attractive to the opposite sex, and which will actually be useful. Traditional bodybuilding routines may generate sarcoplasmic hypertrophy but not myofibrillar hypertrophy, which is where real strength comes from. Sure, you won't be all swollen and misshapen, but I don't think the ladies really dig that look (unless you're looking for "Jersey Shore" kind of chicks, in which case go right ahead. No accounting for taste and all.).

Depends on the exercises you are doing ultimately.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,214
3,632
126
Swozzle,

After a brief scan of this thread, I think some important issues were not sufficently highlighted. The biggest problem with a 40 day diet is that it is by defininition unsustainable. Diets plain and simple do not work and will never work. Sure, temporarilly, you may lose a bit, but you'll be right back in the fat clothes shortly after you stop the diet (shortly after the 40 days). Only a true lifestyle change will work. You must find food choices and exercise choices that you can do today, tomorrow, and for the rest of your life.

Alkemyst's first post here is a good start. So is SociallyChallenged's fat loss thread. But both miss critical issues. It isn't until brikis98's post in that fat loss thread do several key factors get mentioned. Those key factors are fiber, fullness, and satiety.

If you aren't regularly full, you will eventually go off the diet and end up back where you started. You really must eat foods that keep you satisfied. Water, protein, and fiber are what you need to focus on. All three keep you full for a long time. All three have little to no calories (1 gram of protein has half the calories as 1 gram of fat, 1 gram of water has no calories, and one gram of fiber has no calories and the fiber pushes fat/starch out with it meaning it is in essence negative calories). Brikis98's post gives links with foods that are highly filling per calorie. They all have fiber, water, and/or protein. Stick to those foods for the bulk of your meals.

Think bran, oatmeal, sweet potatoes, beans, broccoli, and whole grains for fiber. Think lean meats like steak, fish, or turkey (no skin) for protein. Think apples and oranges for water.

Here is one bit of data to consider. The typical American eats ~13 grams of fiber per day. The USDA recommends 25 grams of fiber. The American Dietary Association recommends 35 grams of fiber. Dieticians and studies usually recommend 50 grams of fiber. Countries were people are thin eat ~70 grams of fiber per day. There is a direct correlation between fiber intake and weight. I strongly encourage you to gradually increase your fiber intake (both soluble and insoluble). In every study of different diets ever done, the high-fiber diet won for long term weight loss (assuming they bothered to include high-fiber as a diet choice in the study).

And I do want to reemphasize the idea that you need fat. Without fat in your diet, you can't absorb key nutrients. Your body will not be in top form without fat. Without fat you will crave diet busting treats, and your diet will fail. High fat foods aren't bad, but keep their intake small and focus on the healthy fats. A salad with ranch dressing is just a high-fat wasteland. A salad without dressing is not filling and fairly useless since you'll be eating soon again and you couldn't absorb any nutrients from the salad. A salad with a reasonable dash of olive oil is perfect.

The idea of rewards will kill your chances. If you eat one healthy thing, you cannot reward yourself with an unhealthy thing. That will fail every time. Purposely include a few treats in your diet. But keep them that way: a FEW treats.

Finally, skip anything pre-packaged or pre-prepared that says low fat or low calorie since they are traps. Low calorie dishes are usually high fat. Low fat dishes are usually high calorie. I see it all the time, someone buys a box of low fat cookies then eats the entire box in a sitting. The result is that he just ate a whole day's worth of calories for a snack and he is still craving the fat/calories that he didn't get. That is a diet-killing trap. Stay far from them. Instead, like I said above, let yourself have the occasional full fat/calorie treat. That'll fullfill your cravings for bad foods and you can go on the rest of the day will proper foods.
 
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Mar 22, 2002
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Dullard, I did mention fullness and satiety in my early posts (ctrl+f ghrelin and leptin). I did not mention explicitly about fiber intake because my liquid intake has higher fiber count than most of my meals. All the info you put down is in the fat loss sticky and in my earlier posts in this thread. You're absolutely right, but you're pointing out things that I did mention.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
I believe in cheat days which for me are my weekends and having some beers. I don't do sweets.

All business Monday through Friday and keep it reasonable on the weekend keeps many from bingeing later. The trick is self-control.

Keeping track of food is definitely a priority, I firmly believe most get fat not because of the stuff they are eating, but because they are simply eating too much of it. Portion control is key.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,214
3,632
126
Dullard, I did mention fullness and satiety in my early posts (ctrl+f ghrelin and leptin). I did not mention explicitly about fiber intake because my liquid intake has higher fiber count than most of my meals. All the info you put down is in the fat loss sticky and in my earlier posts in this thread. You're absolutely right, but you're pointing out things that I did mention.
You did mention the right foods and you mentioned an abscure reference to satiety (ghrelin and leptin which are only a part of satiety; you left off topics such as volume in the stomach, psychology, etc.) That is why I said your thread was a good start. But, you and your fat loss sticky both fail to explain it in terms that are instantly understandable to everyone.

I simply filled in the details in a way that I hope is clear. For example, you won't find a thing about the hormone ghrelin when reading a food label - but you will find fiber, protein, and with a little math you can calculate water.
 
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alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
I agree too many here want to prove the big words and ESPECIALLY scientific they know. They lose their target audience...
 

IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,933
3
81
No excuse to be fat in college. Do work and eat clean. If you tried this in HS you were either not working out correctly or enough or you werent eating right or both.
 
Mar 22, 2002
10,484
32
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You did mention the right foods and you mentioned an abscure reference to satiety (ghrelin and leptin which are only a part of satiety; you left off topics such as volume in the stomach, psychology, etc.) That is why I said your thread was a good start. But, you and your fat loss sticky both fail to explain it in terms that are instantly understandable to everyone.

I simply filled in the details in a way that I hope is clear. For example, you won't find a thing about the hormone ghrelin when reading a food label - but you will find fiber, protein, and with a little math you can calculate water.

Leptin and ghrelin respond to every nutrient that comes in the body. In the fat loss sticky, I elaborate on fat, protein, carbs and satiety. I mention fiber being a staple for satiety. I think you've just missed the parts where I've mentioned them. What I'm doing is giving people food for thought. I actually want them to research stuff on their own to make somebody more self-sufficient at finding future resources and info. That's why I do what I do.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,214
3,632
126
In the fat loss sticky, I elaborate on fat, protein, carbs and satiety.
You need to revisit the sticky thread. What you think is in there is not in there.

For example in the first 100 posts, the word "fiber" does not appear. The word "fibrous" appears without any real good context of why to use it or how to use it.

The words "ghrelin" or "leptin" don't appear in the first 100 posts either.

As for "satiety" it appears after a link for fish oil pills. Sure, you mention it, but that isn't very helpful context. You mention it again with protein and much later with eating frequent meals. You have a great start, but I think it really could do with a revision.
 
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alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
qft...it's akin to being told SEARCH NOOB!

I have made my comments on this sort of higher level discussion than most of ATHF as well as most of the internet is capable of understanding. Also much of it is severely over-complicating it I feel.

layman's terms go a long way in these kinds of discussions especially if someone thinks they know certain meanings but have it wrong.
 
Mar 22, 2002
10,484
32
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You need to revisit the sticky thread. What you think is in there is not in there.

For example in the first 100 posts, the word "fiber" does not appear. The word "fibrous" appears without any real good context of why to use it or how to use it.

The words "ghrelin" or "leptin" don't appear in the first 100 posts either.

As for "satiety" it appears after a link for fish oil pills. Sure, you mention it, but that isn't very helpful context. You mention it again with protein and much later with eating frequent meals. You have a great start, but I think it really could do with a revision.

Ah, I gotcha. Perhaps I'll work on a revision this weekend to explain things a bit more clearly. Thanks for the advice, dullard. :thumbsup:
 

Swozzle

Member
Jan 27, 2010
28
0
0
What about drinking water? I know there's a recommended 56 oz. a day but are you suggesting more Dullard? Or are you just suggesting foods with water like apples and oranges? The fiber advice is great I'm kind of a fitness noob so when everyone started mentioning ghrelin and leptin my eyes glazed over. Fiber is a word I understand though Also, I grew up with a vegetable garden in my backyard so unprocessed fruits and vegetables are an easy substitution for the butter soaked fancy veggies our cafeteria serves. I generally eat a bowl of oatmeal and a piece of fruit for breakfast along with 16 oz. of water. Like I've mentioned before the biggest problem with my diet is lack of protein, I'm trying to figure out a good way take care of that. Exercise-wise how is swimming? As much as I've tried I'm just not a runner so swimming and cycling are usually my favorite but the weathers been pretty nasty so I'm thinking about swimming laps... any thoughts?

And thanks again everyone for the great advice.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
recommended amount is more like a minimum really.

Swimming can work, but I have yet to see most get good results from it. Either they don't push themselves, the pool is too small/crowded, or they lose focus.

A bowl of oatmeal should be not the instant type and only between 1/4 and 1/2 a cup. I'd skip the piece of fruit and have a couple eggs or a low-fat protein source.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,214
3,632
126
What about drinking water? I know there's a recommended 56 oz. a day but are you suggesting more Dullard? Or are you just suggesting foods with water like apples and oranges? The fiber advice is great I'm kind of a fitness noob so when everyone started mentioning ghrelin and leptin my eyes glazed over. Fiber is a word I understand though Also, I grew up with a vegetable garden in my backyard so unprocessed fruits and vegetables are an easy substitution for the butter soaked fancy veggies our cafeteria serves. I generally eat a bowl of oatmeal and a piece of fruit for breakfast along with 16 oz. of water. Like I've mentioned before the biggest problem with my diet is lack of protein, I'm trying to figure out a good way take care of that. Exercise-wise how is swimming? As much as I've tried I'm just not a runner so swimming and cycling are usually my favorite but the weathers been pretty nasty so I'm thinking about swimming laps... any thoughts?

And thanks again everyone for the great advice.
Like someone said above, drinking doesn't fill you up for more than a very short time. If you drink water then your stomach will be empty (and you'll be hungry again) shortly later.

I was talking about eating bulky foods that have few calories. Foods filled with water for example (like an orange). That orange fills your stomach for quite some time, but since it is mostly water, you don't get many calories for that volume. Fiber is similar: it fills your stomach, but you can't digest it. Water (in foods) and fiber tell your stomach that you are full.

Of course, fullness in the stomach is only one part of the picture. You still need your hormones to tell your brain that you are full. Protein is the best at doing that. Protein tells your brain that you are full. I tend to get my protein in ways that I think you could too. Eggs are great and don't need to be refrigerated. Can you even get a little electric skillet or low powered microwave in your room? If not, protein powder works well as do things like dried meat (but that gets expensive). Also, you could try the vegetarian proteins which may be less complete but still a good substitute if you can't get anything else. Think nuts and beans, peas and spinach, oats and wheat, or cornmeal.

I'm a huge fan of nuts 30 mintues before a meal. A small handful of nuts is the perfect way to ruin an appetite. Do it shortly before your meals, at the very time that so many moms say "don't eat that, it'll ruin your appetite". What you want is to ruin your appetite. But don't go overboard. A spoonful of peanut butter or a small handful of nuts is sufficient. If you go with unsalted, uncooked nuts, then they usually aren't addictively tasty and are easier to keep limited to just a small handful. The protein in nuts does the trick and they can be eaten anywhere without any equipment.

As far as I'm concerned swimming is a perfectly fine option if you enjoy it and actually do it for exercise rather than just splash about. Generally, like others have said, you can't target areas to get smaller. As your food diet drops your overall weight, your rear end will get smaller but your body controls the rate. But you can target areas to get bigger. If your exercise is focussed to make other areas bigger (such as your upper body), then you'll look more balanced. Swimming would likely be best if you focus on the breast stroke or butterfly so as to emphasise growth in the upper body and less in the upper legs. I would think that you should do the backstroke less often and if you do the crawl, try to focus more on using the arms than the upper legs.

I'll let others suggest more exercise opinions since I'm no expert in that field.
 
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Swozzle

Member
Jan 27, 2010
28
0
0
Dullard: Saddly no microwave or electric skillet, the most we can get away with is an electric tea kettle. I'm not sure what to think of our cafeterias eggs.... They come out of a carton and are usually fried on a slab doused with oil. I'm may be able to hardboil eggs in the teakettle but I'm not sure... I'm thinking about just buying some protein powder - I've got a friend who's vegetarian who recommended going with protein powder because it's easier than trying to figure out a substitute with the limited options in the cafeteria.
Alkemyst: 86 lbs. in 93 days sounds great to me. I only need to lose about 50 your way seems very doable.
 

brikis98

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2005
7,253
8
0
Alkemyst: 86 lbs. in 93 days sounds great to me. I only need to lose about 50 your way seems very doable.

This rate of weight loss is horribly unhealthy and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I believe Alkemyst himself said he developed kidney problems because of it. Losing more than 1-2lbs per week is just asking for trouble.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
You can roll your eyes all you want. The weight loss was 86lbs in 93 days.
So you say. That kind of weight loss usually only happens to those who are severely ill, like with cancer. Excuse me if I believe you are lying.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
It's definitely not healthy my way. I'd think it'd probably kill some people outright, just two gruelling hours in the gym would have sent some to the hospital. I bounce back quickly though.

I'd drink as much water as you can. There is a filling affect if you are continuously drinking it despite what people say otherwise here.

Hardboil eggs ahead of time, put them in a little cooler pack and carry them. I like Optimum Nutritions Whey. I also use their casein protein.

Personally (and I can't vouch for any medical concerns you may have), I'd have a 1/3 cup of oatmeal in the morning and a protein shake or a couple eggs. Some kind of shake mid-morning (either protein or meal replacement, keep it light though)...a normal lunch of a small peice of chicken, fish (something low fat, Orange Roughy and Tuna is good and high in protein), or turkey (a deck of cards is a good portion for most people and most meats), a cup of veggies and a good carb like a small potato. A mid day shake and then a sensible dinner around 6ish-7ish. If you like red meats, rump roast is a good cut...bottom round is another one (I think that's the cut).

If you are hungry have some low/no fat cottage cheese (like a scoop of it, not a container full), or something similar that's mostly proteins.

Don't overdo the calories in the shakes, I'd say for you about 10-15g or protein and about the same in carbs.

Ephedrine and Caffiene work well for me, but may be too much for some.

Then I'd try to walk a continuous 30-45mins each day at the very minimum.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
So you say. That kind of weight loss usually only happens to those who are severely ill, like with cancer. Excuse me if I believe you are lying.

Well one of the reasons I started seeing the doctor during the wieght loss. They actually tested me for cancer and ordered CAT and MRI scans.

The doctor couldn't believe the loss himself.

It wasn't event free though. I was fatigued and ended up with a kidney infection/flu.

I respond very fast to weight loss and muscle growth, I also gain weight very fast when I become lazy even on a strict diet.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
Well one of the reasons I started seeing the doctor during the wieght loss. They actually tested me for cancer and ordered CAT and MRI scans.

The doctor couldn't believe the loss himself.

It wasn't event free though. I was fatigued and ended up with a kidney infection/flu.

I respond very fast to weight loss and muscle growth, I also gain weight very fast when I become lazy even on a strict diet.
Well if you did lose that much weight so fast the loss of muscle mass must have been great too.

I've seem people who have had their stomachs stapled lose weight rather quickly (though not as fast as you claimed) and it always resulted in significant loss of muscle mass.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,967
19
81
Well if you did lose that much weight so fast the loss of muscle mass must have been great too.

I've seem people who have had their stomachs stapled lose weight rather quickly (though not as fast as you claimed) and it always resulted in significant loss of muscle mass.

25-30lbs of muscle I lost. My peak shape was 190lbs at 5'10.5" around 5-7% body fat.
 
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