40 million "black boxes" In cars since 2000??? Interesting Read in Playboy Advisor

[StageLeft]

He had been driving his 2002 Trans Am

It was a grand am, according to the C&D article I read a few months back with it. I mentioned it then, but nobody seemed interested. Fact is I expect black boxes to be in more and more cars in the future. Few knew about them now, but if outrage doesn't prompt manufacturers to take them away, then it's entirely possible that they'll be a requirement in future cars.

It certainly makes speeding and reckless behavior more difficult doesn't it? Unfortunately there is no good argument against it. Privacy? For something you did on a public road? Get real; it's not recording your conversations in the car, but just the movement of your vehicle. Eitherway I'm sure a lot more people will be getting nailed by these boxes in the future, which alludes back to my thread of some months ago in which I said that "sports cars are stupid". With technology it will become increasingly difficult to drive fast and recklessly on public roads without being punished for it.

My first impression when I heard about these was 'this sucks!'. Why? Because I like to drive fast and never want the evidence used against me. Then I realized how selfish that is. Perhaps the evidence should be there, and knowing about it being there prevent me from driving 114 in a 30 in the first place? The analogy of a keystroke logger and this is weak, at best. What you do in your home is PRIVATE on your computer. letters, emails, bank accounts, etc. What you do behind the wheel of a car is not. Remember, these are NOT recording the internals of your car (music you listen to, conversations, etc.) they are merely recording how everybody in the public experiences your car, in terms of speed, braking etc.

As one person mentioned, if you're guilt free you should be happy about these because they'll be a great defense. These are not recording anything private about you. You drive on public roads, they record your public driving. How is this an infringement on privacy? Are you going to start boycotting stores that have video cameras now?

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: ViRGE
Umm, if you're so worried, just take the boxes out(difficult!=impossible). Just don't come whining to me when your insurance goes up.

How the f*ck did you correlate lower car insurance to black boxes?

Well think about it: insurance companies certainly know about these boxes, and they are certainly helpful to insurance companies when taking care of claims(i.e. it proves if the customer was lieing or not), so how soon will it be until you get a "discount" for having a black box? How soon then until it becomes standard, and it instead becomes more of a penelty for not having a box?

But the data only recorders speed which is more likely to show you breaking the law. It can't prove you didn't run a stop sign, traffic light, or other control devices. It can be used to prove you did speed, did blow thru a stop sign, a traffic light. I would guess 9 times out of 10 the data stored doesn't help the owner.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: Spencer278

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: ViRGE
Umm, if you're so worried, just take the boxes out(difficult!=impossible). Just don't come whining to me when your insurance goes up.

How the f*ck did you correlate lower car insurance to black boxes?

Well think about it: insurance companies certainly know about these boxes, and they are certainly helpful to insurance companies when taking care of claims(i.e. it proves if the customer was lieing or not), so how soon will it be until you get a "discount" for having a black box? How soon then until it becomes standard, and it instead becomes more of a penelty for not having a box?

But the data only recorders speed which is more likely to show you breaking the law. It can't prove you didn't run a stop sign, traffic light, or other control devices. It can be used to prove you did speed, did blow thru a stop sign, a traffic light. I would guess 9 times out of 10 the data stored doesn't help the owner.

True, but this is still beneficial to the insurance company. Instead of having to do a bunch of forensics, fight with another insurance company, and possibly go to court to defend you, they can just ask the black box if you're guilty or not. If it shows you're guilty, they then know you're lieing, that you're at fault for the collision, and they can skip the court stuff and go straight to increasing your premiums, all of which saves them money.

 

[StageLeft]

How soon then until it becomes standard, and it instead becomes more of a penelty for not having a box?

Agreed, and I see that as the future. I've wanted for a long time the ability to have a video camera in my car (without it being a pain in the ass) to film everything, so that if I'm in a crash I can proove my innocence. If everybody has a box, the data could be reasonably used to reconstruct an accident.

 

[mattyrug]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Orsorum

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
Well, if you're not driving like a dumbfvck, what do you have to worry about? Drive responsibly and this little black box will be on YOUR side, not theirs.

So I assume you would be willing to have a keylogger installed on your computer? Not to be abused, of course, just in case something goes wrong?

excellent analogy for us nerds to understand.

I haven't decided on these things yet... I'm not really sure if this point is even relevant, so someone tell me if I'm way off here, but Driving is a Privelage and not a right. Now, does this blur the line on the issue or not?? The Keylogger argument seems invalid to me because of this. You don't need a license to operate a computer, but you do to operate a Vehicle, so this is considered a Privelage. I know when you purchse a car, it isyour personal property, but you need the privelages to operate it (your license).
I'm not necessarily for it, but not 100% against it. In 15+ years of driving my record is perfectly clean, (I've got 1 verbal warning for 2 over) and I don't regularly use excessive speed, so I'd really have nothing to hide. It supposedly only saves the last 5 seconds of data before an impact, but what about the future??
I forgot what the hell my point was....

 

[TekDemon]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
Well, if you're not driving like a dumbfvck, what do you have to worry about? Drive responsibly and this little black box will be on YOUR side, not theirs.

so say I legally just got back from the track where I hit over 100mph repeatedly....now joe moron pulls out in front of me 2 miles from the track running a stop sign with no witnesses. Sure maybe I was going 10-20-30mph over the limit, but he did not stop...he is dead and would be even if I was 5mph below the limit more than likely.

Now my little black box show all this data +65mph....

Lawyer: "Mr. Alkemyst +65mph is not legal on *any* roads in america, how do you explain this?"
Mr. Alkemyst: "I was at the race track here in town, my car is capable of xMPH in the 1/4 mile. I ran several times."
L: "So you like to drive wrecklessly and fast?"
Mr. A: "No I like to drive safe, that's why I did so at a track"
L: "but clearly they say speed is like a drug, could you have been excited from all the high speeds runs at the track and now want to continue on the way home? The two people you killed were 18 and 16, the 16 yo had only been driving a short time and never raced. She was merely trying to get home after seeing ELF with her b/f, she was a straight A student and in honor society."
...

It's pretty hard to save yourself after that.

Å

Uhhh they only log 5 seconds man...so unless you go speeding out from the track at 100MPH and T-Bone someone this scenario isn't gonna happen =p

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

How soon then until it becomes standard, and it instead becomes more of a penelty for not having a box?

Agreed, and I see that as the future. I've wanted for a long time the ability to have a video camera in my car (without it being a pain in the ass) to film everything, so that if I'm in a crash I can proove my innocence. If everybody has a box, the data could be reasonably used to reconstruct an accident.

Theoretically, you should never have to prove your innocence. The burden is supposed to fall upon the state to prove your guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt".

 

[TGregg]

Originally posted by: Carbo

Idiots like you will never figure just WHY we have the constitutional protections in this country that we do, so why don't you just jump off the Fremont bridge?

Hiding behind the Constitution is always the first choice of those hiding guilt. Put down the booze and the bong, drive responsibly, and you'll have no need for concern about that black box.

You're right of course. Who needs that stoopid Constitution anyways? Everybody knows the government only has our best interests at heart, and is clearly better at taking care of us than we are. I say we abandon the Consititution and let a pure democracy rule (AKA a mobocracy). But I won't be around, I'll bail outta here faster than you can say "The voters say you gotta move out of your house so we can sell it."

Geez, some people don't appreciate freedom. "Hiding behing the Constitution" indeed.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: Skoorb

How soon then until it becomes standard, and it instead becomes more of a penelty for not having a box?

Agreed, and I see that as the future. I've wanted for a long time the ability to have a video camera in my car (without it being a pain in the ass) to film everything, so that if I'm in a crash I can proove my innocence. If everybody has a box, the data could be reasonably used to reconstruct an accident.

Theoretically, you should never have to prove your innocence. The burden is supposed to fall upon the state to prove your guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt".

Well, in an accident somebody is guilty, so let's hope that the evidence points away from you!

It supposedly only saves the last 5 seconds of data before an impact, but what about the future??

Yeah it does for now, but the C&D article rightly mentioned that with memory being ever cheap it's only a matter of time before the last 5 seconds turns into the last hour, or the last 10,000 miles. All these represent is a recording of how you exhibit your driving in public.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: Carbo

Idiots like you will never figure just WHY we have the constitutional protections in this country that we do, so why don't you just jump off the Fremont bridge?

Hiding behind the Constitution is always the first choice of those hiding guilt. Put down the booze and the bong, drive responsibly, and you'll have no need for concern about that black box.

So you would have us believe as long as you are a "good soldier" you have nothing to fear. rrrrriiiiiiiggggghhhhhttttt.
Here's what one of the original drafters of the Constitution had to say about that mindset.......
"Those who would sacrifice personal liberty for personal safety, deserve neither." Benjamin Franklin.

Gutting Constitutional protections is always the first choice of those who are convinced they know how the rest of us should behave.
As the oath says.....
"I will protect the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic." That includes those that would usurp the traditional protections for those designed "to keep us more safe".

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: AlienCraft

Originally posted by: Carbo

Idiots like you will never figure just WHY we have the constitutional protections in this country that we do, so why don't you just jump off the Fremont bridge?

Hiding behind the Constitution is always the first choice of those hiding guilt. Put down the booze and the bong, drive responsibly, and you'll have no need for concern about that black box.

So you would have us believe as long as you are a "good soldier" you have nothing to fear. rrrrriiiiiiiggggghhhhhttttt.
Here's what one of the original drafters of the Constitution had to say about that mindset.......
"Those who would sacrifice personal liberty for personal safety, deserve neither." Benjamin Franklin.

Gutting Constitutional protections is always the first choice of those who are convinced they know how the rest of us should behave.
As the oath says.....
"I will protect the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic." That includes those that would usurp the traditional protections for those designed "to keep us more safe".

Carbo must die!!!!

 

[911paramedic]

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
Well, if you're not driving like a dumbfvck, what do you have to worry about? Drive responsibly and this little black box will be on YOUR side, not theirs.

This is almost exactly what I was going to post.

 

[911paramedic]

Originally posted by: FFMCobalt
Well, if you're not driving like a dumbfvck, what do you have to worry about? Drive responsibly and this little black box will be on YOUR side, not theirs.

This is almost exactly what I was going to post.

 

[AvesPKS]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

How soon then until it becomes standard, and it instead becomes more of a penelty for not having a box?

Agreed, and I see that as the future. I've wanted for a long time the ability to have a video camera in my car (without it being a pain in the ass) to film everything, so that if I'm in a crash I can proove my innocence. If everybody has a box, the data could be reasonably used to reconstruct an accident.

So, if you got into an accident that was your fault, but it wasn't obvious that it was your fault, you would use your camera to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you were the one at fault in the accident, right?

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: AvesPKS

Originally posted by: Skoorb

How soon then until it becomes standard, and it instead becomes more of a penelty for not having a box?

Agreed, and I see that as the future. I've wanted for a long time the ability to have a video camera in my car (without it being a pain in the ass) to film everything, so that if I'm in a crash I can proove my innocence. If everybody has a box, the data could be reasonably used to reconstruct an accident.

So, if you got into an accident that was your fault, but it wasn't obvious that it was your fault, you would use your camera to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you were the one at fault in the accident, right?

I like to consider myself above the morally ambiguous masses, and in fact would admit fault. And, should I have a momentary lapse in self-respect, I'd hope for the sake of the other party that they have their own camera so that they may be able to place blame where it lies.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
As the oath says.....
"I will protect the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic." That includes those that would usurp the traditional protections for those designed "to keep us more safe".

Carbo must die!!!![/quote]
Dude, HARSH!!! :beer: LOL

 

[Anubis]

i knew of these and i dont like the idea. luckily my 92 Tempo doesnt have one

and you CANT remove them. well you can actually but some cars wont function with them and it usially voids your warrenty

 

[MrCodeDude]

You read Playboy?

 

[JackDawkins]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Yeah it does for now, but the C&D article rightly mentioned that with memory being ever cheap it's only a matter of time before the last 5 seconds turns into the last hour, or the last 10,000 miles. All these represent is a recording of how you exhibit your driving in public.

Can't wait for the day to arrive when you take your car to the DMV for it's annual inspection and the inspector logs in to your black box and then proceeds to write you up for all of the traffic infractions your car has recorded on your behalf. We could do away with traffic cops altogether and just think of the revenue this will generate because human traffic cops can't possibly catch all of the traffic violations that occur every day.

Sounds so wonderful it just gives me chills all up and down my spine. What terrific, law-abiding citizens we'll all be then.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: JackDawkins

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Yeah it does for now, but the C&D article rightly mentioned that with memory being ever cheap it's only a matter of time before the last 5 seconds turns into the last hour, or the last 10,000 miles. All these represent is a recording of how you exhibit your driving in public.

Can't wait for the day to arrive when you take your car to the DMV for it's annual inspection and the inspector logs in to your black box and then proceeds to write you up for all of the traffic infractions your car has recorded on your behalf. We could do away with traffic cops altogether and just think of the revenue this will generate because human traffic cops can't possibly catch all of the traffic violations that occur every day.

Sounds so wonderful it just gives me chills all up and down my spine. What terrific, law-abiding citizens we'll all be then.

Heh, that would suck. I have come to realize that I literally break traffic laws each and ever single time I drive, bar none. The vast majority of people do.

 

[JackDawkins]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: JackDawkins

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Yeah it does for now, but the C&D article rightly mentioned that with memory being ever cheap it's only a matter of time before the last 5 seconds turns into the last hour, or the last 10,000 miles. All these represent is a recording of how you exhibit your driving in public.

Can't wait for the day to arrive when you take your car to the DMV for it's annual inspection and the inspector logs in to your black box and then proceeds to write you up for all of the traffic infractions your car has recorded on your behalf. We could do away with traffic cops altogether and just think of the revenue this will generate because human traffic cops can't possibly catch all of the traffic violations that occur every day.

Sounds so wonderful it just gives me chills all up and down my spine. What terrific, law-abiding citizens we'll all be then.

Heh, that would suck. I have come to realize that I literally break traffic laws each and ever single time I drive, bar none. The vast majority of people do.

This is what scares me about this kind of thing. It all starts innocuously enough. Little black boxes are put into cars unbeknownst to the general public.... Little black boxes that only record five seconds before a crash.... Who could argue the benefit of that?.... Little black boxes soon are capable of recording much more data.... But don't worry, that data will never be used.... Little black boxes start to make more and more appearances in court cases.... But it's all for the benefit of the general public.... Little black boxes are soon a point of contention amongst the fighters of evil and the protectors of rights.... But the welfare of the community is at stake. Aren't we all still concerned about the kids? Besides, we've always had these little black boxes and what's the harm?.... Little black boxes become an integral part of a persons driving history.... But it is only used in criminal cases.... Little black boxes have so many benefits in properly governing the masses.... Please report to the DMV to have your little black box inspected and if you are a good little soldier and pay what you owe, we'll be nice enough to renew your registration....

And then someone wakes up and says, "How did this all start? I remember when we didn't have little black boxes. I remember when those little black boxes arrived, they only recorded something like 5 seconds. How did my life get so completely out of my control?"

And then the reply comes, "Don't worry, it's all right, just go back to sleep."

edit: Yes, I'm paranoid.

 

[Ciber]

Soon they will record the last 50k miles or more... Really not that difficult since it's all text, just drop 32 megs of ram in there.

Then they will have GPS and the GPS will be synchronized with stop lights and speed zones, so here you are driving home and you go over the speed limit without even realizing it, because you did not see the sign you just passed that says the speed limit is now 45 instead of 55. A week passes and you get your nice fine in the mail.

You might think this is paranoia, but this is something that we can do today, easily.


Just something to think about.

 

[Compton]

Yeah yeah, it won't be long until the man can drive your car with a remote control. When you disagree with the government they'll drive you off a bridge.

Yeah 1984

1984

 

[OutHouse]

^^ for the night crew.

 

[EXman]

Well, if you're not driving like a dumbfvck, what do you have to worry about? Drive responsibly and this little black box will be on YOUR side, not theirs.

yup what he said!