400 points and dropping

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
I suggest you people read up on October 19th 1987. Jesus you people are as bad as Dave.

Dow Jones dropped 23%
In the next two weeks Hong Kong dropped 46%.
Largest drop in market history.
We fucking survived.

We dropped what...4%? JHC people.

You are so badass tough :thumbsup:

We're down about 28% from peak now.

 

[mshan]

Probably, because as LK has said before, it was the contraction of credit (lending) that lead to the Great Depression.

And blame Clinton? He may have loosened regulations, but who was asleep at the wheel?

I think 2004 was the year when a lot of those toxic no money down, negative amortization, pick a payment loans, and the housing market, really started to take off. The Bush administration had several years to reign in the excesses before it got to this point.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Vic
The good news are that oil is dropping like a stone as well, now $95 and change, and that bonds are way way up.

That's not good news. That's great news.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't tell that to me, I just checked gas prices at the pump and they are up up up.

Have you seen all them ads AIG has been running lately, children telling children they are glad their parents have their money in AIG. Assume the childish, they are the only ones still fooled.

I mean seriously folks, you do believe in cause and effect don't you, looks like GWB and his bad policy chickens are coming home to roost even before GWB can get out of town before the bottom drops out.

As as the buzzards start circling, poor ole George is discovering there are too many buzzards to buy out.

I don't care if GWB goes down the toilet, but I do care if he takes me with him. But this is what all us BDS folks have been warning about all these years, and now you
GWB supporters can go lalala as you swirl down the toilet with everyone else.

 

[Mani]

Nonsense, this economic crisis is a fabrication of the liberal media! Haven't you seen the unemployment numbers? :roll:

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: mshan
I thought the Bush administration just loaded government up with incompetent cronies whose job was to look the other way, rather than actually enforce any regulations?

If you're going to blame any President for this mess, blame Clinton. He and (the then Republican) Congress are the reasons why the banking laws are so one-sided today.

Clinton started it, Bush saw it from the 25% mark all of the way until the end.

 

[jpeyton]

We've become a nation of whiners.

Mental recession.

[/thread]

 

[nergee]

Credit contraction and debt destruction is here and will
be an ongoing process.....

Credit is being destroyed far faster than the Fed is monetizing.
Deflation is happening right now....

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
I suggest you people read up on October 19th 1987. Jesus you people are as bad as Dave.

Dow Jones dropped 23%
In the next two weeks Hong Kong dropped 46%.
Largest drop in market history.
We fucking survived.

We dropped what...4%? JHC people.

The DJIA has dropped 23% in the last 11 months.

The Fed will now accept bundled soiled diapers as collateral.

Home foreclosures are up 15%. The debt obligations for homeowners is 31% higher than it was in 1980 as values creep downward.

Is there such a thing as a bank reserve requirement anymore?

The FDIC reserve ratio is now less than 1 percent.

The number of banks and thrifts on the FDIC's "problem" list jumped 30% last quarter, to 117 (doubling from the same time a year ago), and their assets tripled, to $78.3 billion.

The FDIC's current reserves are around $45 billion.

We consume far in excess of what we produce. 'Interest payments' to the rest of the world on our gov't debt has doubled in the last few years though rates have remained relatively stable.


Yup. Most of us will survive. For some it will not be very pretty.


It's not about them, of course. It's all about you

 

[StageLeft]

Ah right, 23%, not 28%. *shame*

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: retrospooty
The US economy is like sex... Even when its bad, its still good.

We will recover.

Of course we will. We're just going to endure a lot of pain over the next 5 years paying for the last 8 years.

how do you figure? The market recovered in half that time from the dot com bust...and that was FAR more tragic that...this. youre talking about the market, right?

To the market or the overall economy? The overall economy is much worse, exponentially worse, than what we had in 2000-2002.

You are so, so wrong. How many people and companies went bankrupt or out of work/business again?

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: blackangst1
I suggest you people read up on October 19th 1987. Jesus you people are as bad as Dave.

Dow Jones dropped 23%
In the next two weeks Hong Kong dropped 46%.
Largest drop in market history.
We fucking survived.

We dropped what...4%? JHC people.

haha. That alone just pwns so many people in this thread. People are so stupid.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: blackangst1
I suggest you people read up on October 19th 1987. Jesus you people are as bad as Dave.

Dow Jones dropped 23%
In the next two weeks Hong Kong dropped 46%.
Largest drop in market history.
We fucking survived.

We dropped what...4%? JHC people.

You are so badass tough :thumbsup:

We're down about 28% from peak now.

And it was down 44% 10/19/87 from it's all time high. IMO, 44% > 28%.

In 2002 7.7 TRILLION was effectively removed from the market, 750 million in a week. Where are we now?

It is estimated that only 50% of dot coms survived past 2004. What percentage of companies have failed thus far because of this?

Get some reality man.

 

[mshan]

Word on the Street: http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=857037845&play=1
Pension Funds and Endowments: http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=857064742&play=1


30-40 : 1 leverage: ouch!!!! (they mentioned something about an AIG Financial Arm that might have really exposed the whole company to tremendous risk)

"...it is abundantly clear that deleveraging (of the balance sheets of our financial intermediaries and in the disintermediation surrounding the world's hedge fund community) is a rabid bitch and has contributed to the current bear market in stocks and bull market in risk-aversion."

"During today's period of stress and deleveraging, there is "nowhere to run to, baby, no place to hide." Investors/traders face the unenviable (and sometimes non-rigorous) task of gaming hedge fund activity rather than gaming fundamentals. It helps to explain a market without memory from day to day, and it helps to explain why the smartest hedge fund investors extant are sitting on their hands with plenty of liquidity, just waiting to capitalize on the aforementioned fear."

http://www.thestreet.com/story...ss-short-on-logic.html

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Time for an obligatory rehashing of one of the most moronic responses I've ever received to a post about the nation's economic situation:

DOOM! GLOOM! Do you want America to fail?

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: blackangst1
I suggest you people read up on October 19th 1987. Jesus you people are as bad as Dave.

Dow Jones dropped 23%
In the next two weeks Hong Kong dropped 46%.
Largest drop in market history.
We fucking survived.

We dropped what...4%? JHC people.

You are so badass tough :thumbsup:

We're down about 28% from peak now.

And it was down 44% 10/19/87 from it's all time high. IMO, 44% > 28%.

In 2002 7.7 TRILLION was effectively removed from the market, 750 million in a week. Where are we now?

It is estimated that only 50% of dot coms survived past 2004. What percentage of companies have failed thus far because of this?

Get some reality man.

ROFL. I think you need to get some reality. 1987 was a short-term abberation, a panic, with no fundamentals changing that indicated an underlying problem. It quickly recovered almost all of the lost ground and no major investment house outright died (save problems at Salomon, which was bought by Citi).

To compare an odd, short-term, event, to a contracted fundamental shift in the economy, is ridiculous. The DJIA isn't a great indicator of the economy.

Comparing 2002, where we had a drastically overheated equity market, with many small companies being overvalued, to a massive deleveraging and the failing of investment houses, is, again, ridiculous. Considering we are back to 1997 stock market levels, adjusting for inflation, shows that pure dollar figures doesn't really matter.

Wow, 50% of overhyped techs died. Big fucking deal. When did that affect long/short term borrowing rates? When did that lead to a credit contraction akin to 1929? When did we see the undermining of the entire financial system?

Your comparison of events is laughable without analysis of the underlying event and the reasons for it.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: nullzero
We are screwed big time... Great Depression #2 here we come... History repeats itself.

But will the government legalize suicide this time around and allow humanitarians to set up Suicide-a-toriums so that members of the homeless, starving masses who want to die can do so in a painless, dignified manner?

Nah, the Christians and Sarah Palin types would never allow it; people will have to throw themselves in front of trucks and off of buildings and bridges.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: blackangst1
I suggest you people read up on October 19th 1987. Jesus you people are as bad as Dave.

Dow Jones dropped 23%
In the next two weeks Hong Kong dropped 46%.
Largest drop in market history.
We fucking survived.

We dropped what...4%? JHC people.

You are so badass tough :thumbsup:

We're down about 28% from peak now.

And it was down 44% 10/19/87 from it's all time high. IMO, 44% > 28%.

In 2002 7.7 TRILLION was effectively removed from the market, 750 million in a week. Where are we now?

It is estimated that only 50% of dot coms survived past 2004. What percentage of companies have failed thus far because of this?

Get some reality man.

ROFL. I think you need to get some reality. 1987 was a short-term abberation, a panic, with no fundamentals changing that indicated an underlying problem. It quickly recovered almost all of the lost ground and no major investment house outright died (save problems at Salomon, which was bought by Citi).

To compare an odd, short-term, event, to a contracted fundamental shift in the economy, is ridiculous. The DJIA isn't a great indicator of the economy.

Comparing 2002, where we had a drastically overheated equity market, with many small companies being overvalued, to a massive deleveraging and the failing of investment houses, is, again, ridiculous. Considering we are back to 1997 stock market levels, adjusting for inflation, shows that pure dollar figures doesn't really matter.

Wow, 50% of overhyped techs died. Big fucking deal. When did that affect long/short term borrowing rates? When did that lead to a credit contraction akin to 1929? When did we see the undermining of the entire financial system?

Your comparison of events is laughable without analysis of the underlying event and the reasons for it.

ROFL

I was replying to the OP, and the statements of a 500 point drop. Last I checked this wasnt an economy thread, but rather market drops. In which case everything I posted is 100% accurate.

Of course this is different. 2002 was different than 1987 which was different than 1929. So what? A drop is a drop. you dont care about the dot coms busting, I dont care about one or two major banks failing. "Oh but theyre different! Theyre bogger!" Net losses were far greater in 2002 than today. Im not disagreeing with you LK, Im stating in the context I was replying, I am correct.

 

[Engineer]

Will Bush end his 8 year term with any of the 3 major indicies in the black or will they all end in red (two are there now and the Dow is up by a whopping 400 points +/- ). You're doing a heckofa job on the economy there Bushie. :laugh:

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: ayabe
To the market or the overall economy? The overall economy is much worse, exponentially worse, than what we had in 2000-2002.

You are so, so wrong. How many people and companies went bankrupt or out of work/business again?

In the financial sector, this is easily going to outpace the worst of the tech stock implosion.

Economic impact: Job-loss edition

Annual Financial Sector Job Cuts in the US 1997-2008

1997? 37,159
1998? 62,366
1999? 60,834
2000? 55,272
2001? 116,647
2002? 89,210
2003? 51,784
2004? 97,945
2005? 50,503
2006? 50,327
2007? 153,105
2008? 102,957 (through August)

Five months yet to come in 2008. Numbers do not include those who just became jobless as a result of Lehman.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: ayabe
To the market or the overall economy? The overall economy is much worse, exponentially worse, than what we had in 2000-2002.

You are so, so wrong. How many people and companies went bankrupt or out of work/business again?

In the financial sector, this is easily going to outpace the worst of the tech stock implosion.

Economic impact: Job-loss edition

Annual Financial Sector Job Cuts in the US 1997-2008

1997? 37,159
1998? 62,366
1999? 60,834
2000? 55,272
2001? 116,647
2002? 89,210
2003? 51,784
2004? 97,945
2005? 50,503
2006? 50,327
2007? 153,105
2008? 102,957 (through August)

Five months yet to come in 2008. Numbers do not include those who just became jobless as a result of Lehman.

nvm apples and oranges. I didnt realize I was talking about the financial sector. Thats for enlightening me!

 

[mshan]

the CNBC.com Asia free webstream is online again (usually Sunday night only), for anyone who doesn't have cable.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: nullzero
We are screwed big time... Great Depression #2 here we come... History repeats itself.

But will the government legalize suicide this time around and allow humanitarians to set up Suicide-a-toriums so that members of the homeless, starving masses who want to die can do so in a painless, dignified manner?

Nah, the Christians and Sarah Palin types would never allow it; people will have to throw themselves in front of trucks and off of buildings and bridges.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And even as the Titanic goes down, I am so proud that that Sarah Palin and John McCain stand tall on that tilting deck and sing God Bless America a few moments before they change their tune and say swim for your lives.

We have already had such a moment today, as McCain started the day by saying the fundamentals of the economy remain strong, but as the dow kept plunging, McCain has modified it to mistakes by GWB, he now pledges to fix. While having a record of asleep at the switch cheering GWB in the screwing of that economic pooch for the past eight years. Somehow I think its going to take more than lip stick to refloat that McCain boat.

But there is always the WhipperSnapper strategy, pretend it so is not lalala happening. Which will last until we encounter that in God we trust, all others pay cash type.

 

[Cattlegod]

why does the god damned economy always crash right before i graduate with another degree. JHC.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Lemon lawBut there is always the WhipperSnapper strategy, pretend it so is not lalala happening. Which will last until we encounter that in God we trust, all others pay cash type.

WTF? How is ignoring the state of the economy and not doing anything about it my strategy?

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
why does the god damned economy always crash right before i graduate with another degree. JHC.

Another degree that will become worthless if you can't find work soon after graduation and thus are rendered unemployable in the field? (If that happens, you have my sympathy and empathy.)