4070 reviews thread

Page 13 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,262
5,259
136
There was a comment I really agreed with - this could have been the 4060ti. It could have been priced at $450 and been just a boomer of seller. But rather than incorporating the market feedback on the 4080 and near miss 4080 12GB, they went for max value and priced it at $600. This may actually make them more money in the long term, so it's not a terrible play. I concede this.

No surprise. Forum users there, think much like forum users here. Though I think $450 for the 4070 regardless of naming was NEVER going to happen, and it won't even happen in an AMD competitor. Input costs are too high to make 50%+ manufacturer margins on that. And if they aren't making 50%+ margin, the business case is marginal.

I think this is part of the reason there is no Radeon 7800 XT. That is essentially the next step down in AMDs lineup and it would be a competitor for the 4070. If People think NVidia misnamed their cards what do they think of the 4070 competitor being the 7800XT? I think AMD would also like to sell the 7800XT for $600 USD, so they are kind of between a rock and hard place with this model. At $600 it will be a hard sell, and significantly below that a significant margin squeeze.

$450 is pipe dream from either manufacturer for this tier.

If 7800XT actually arrives this generation, I expect it will have slightly better than 4070 performance but will be at $600+.
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
9,198
3,185
136
www.teamjuchems.com
No surprise. Forum users there, think much like forum users here. Though I think $450 for the 4070 regardless of naming was NEVER going to happen, and it won't even happen in an AMD competitor. Input costs are too high to make 50%+ manufacturer margins on that. And if they aren't making 50%+ margin, the business case is marginal.

I think this is part of the reason there is no Radeon 7800 XT. That is essentially the next step down in AMDs lineup and it would be a competitor for the 4070. If People think NVidia misnamed their cards what do they think of the 4070 competitor being the 7800XT? I think AMD would also like to sell the 7800XT for $600 USD, so they are kind of between a rock and hard place with this model. At $600 it will be a hard sell, and significantly below that a significant margin squeeze.

$450 is pipe dream from either manufacturer for this tier.

If 7800XT actually arrives this generation, I expect it will have slightly better than 4070 performance but will be at $600+.

There might be some truth there.

I guess my main point is that this section @ ars was previously virulently nvidia biased.

So either nvidia has stepped down their shill game (unlikely, probably great ROI) or there really is some changing mindset out there.

That's the more interesting bit to me.

Given our complete lack of insight into BoM costs, I won't debate profitability. What I do know is that inbound freight is down ridiculously from late 2021/early 2022.

A 45' high cube container delivery from Asia for me cost $28k (plus fees, added up to nearly $35k) in December 2021, the same container landing in May this year is $4400 plus fees, which I expect to maybe hit for a total of $7k. So at least one part of the supply chain costs structure if fully restored to pre-pandemic levels and honestly hasn't even been impacted much by inflation due to the continued strength of the USD. My rates are still really high because of my low volume, but those 2021/2022 rates were for everyone as contracts were broken left and right and ocean freight was the wild wild west.

What, you don't like NewEggs' no money back guarantee?

haha, you got me there
 
Reactions: igor_kavinski

MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,586
1,746
136

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,262
5,259
136
Looks like NVIDIA is cutting production because of poor sales. No surprise there. If only they would just lower prices.


It's only basic common sense to limit production once you have filled the channel.

Also, it's not like the don't have more profitable options for their wafers. H100 boards cost over $30K, and are apparently in short supply and selling for $40K+ on Ebay:

 
Reactions: Ranulf and Mopetar

Kocicak

Senior member
Jan 17, 2019
982
973
136
I read the comments under the Ars technica review and most of them are completely unreasonable, as most other comments elsewhere.

Performance per dollar of this card is higher than of any previous xx70 card, and that is only the performance without any of the upscaling and frame generation, which bring further performance improvements.

Globally, the prices and availability of the AMD 6000 series cards may be different than in the US, from where a lot of reviewers and commenters are. A lot of the conclusions of the reviews by US authors are simply irreleveant elsewhere.

BTW I am very happy with the 4070, except the RAM, which should be 16 GB,
and I also could not buy FE version of this card, I have no idea why Nvidia does not sell these cards here.
 

MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,586
1,746
136
I read the comments under the Ars technica review and most of them are completely unreasonable, as most other comments elsewhere.

Performance per dollar of this card is higher than of any previous xx70 card, and that is only the performance without any of the upscaling and frame generation, which bring further performance improvements.

Globally, the prices and availability of the AMD 6000 series cards may be different than in the US, from where a lot of reviewers and commenters are. A lot of the conclusions of the reviews by US authors are simply irreleveant elsewhere.

BTW I am very happy with the 4070, except the RAM, which should be 16 GB,
and I also could not buy FE version of this card, I have no idea why Nvidia does not sell these cards here.
Saying that performance per dollar is higher on the 4070 than any previous xx70 card is damning it with faint praise. If it can't at least beat a 3070 or older there's not much reason for it to exist
 

Thunder 57

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2007
2,814
4,105
136
It's only basic common sense to limit production once you have filled the channel.

Also, it's not like the don't have more profitable options for their wafers. H100 boards cost over $30K, and are apparently in short supply and selling for $40K+ on Ebay:


For someone who says companies aren't our friends (they aren't) you do an awful lot of shilling for NVIDIA. Who cares how much their AI stuff is selling for? This is the graphics card section of a technology forum. I very much doubt anyone here is buying that type of equipment.
 
Reactions: Cableman

Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
3,385
7,151
136
Saying that performance per dollar is higher on the 4070 than any previous xx70 card is damning it with faint praise. If it can't at least beat a 3070 or older there's not much reason for it to exist
Yeah, that's kind of like saying if Intel or AMD offered a CPU 2 years later at the same price but with 1% higher performance then it's totally fine and dandy. The ire people have isn't because it's the best 70-class card ever; no one doubts that. But names are just names, and people clearly see how bang per buck is stagnating.

Honestly, the best approach is to simply not buy Nvidia as frequently. If Nvidia want to be like Apple, then do the same thing as Apple customers. At some point, Apple customers realized that they didn't need to own the latest iPhone each generation because they got too expensive and/or good enough, so people simply upgraded less frequently. Heck, between spending money on a better phone or a better graphics card, I'd argue it's more worth it on the phone because at least it's something you'd use daily.

Ignore AMD here, as much as some people like to bring them into the conversation because they are a convenient scapegoat, because Nvidia's mind share and market share is so dominant that AMD really doesn't have much influence on Nvidia's game plans. It's the same reason why Apple doesn't give a wooden nickel about what Google or Samsung do in the smartphone market; they have a brand that's impenetrable and no one else makes an iOS phone, just like how no one else offers Nvidia's exclusive features. Apple doesn't even mention their competition in their marketing slides because they aren't trying to convince their competitors users to go Apple; they are trying to convince their own user base to upgrade in the same way Nvidia's biggest hurdle is trying to convince their own 80%+ market share user base to keep upgrading. Blaming AMD for rising Nvidia GPU prices is like blaming Google for Apple's expensive phones. In reality, Apple and Nvidia raises their prices on their own volition, specifically to the highest price their users will bear, so anyone who is gets mad that iPhones / Nvidia GPUs are expensive should blame Apple / Nvidia, not Google / AMD.

Shoot, it wouldn't even surprise me if Nvidia eventually accept that sales revenue of their gaming GPUs hit a plateau that they start rolling out paid software features. This strategy is the same that Apple took when they too realized that people were upgrading less frequently, so the only way to grow was to make money off of the already plateau'ed user base via subscriptions. Software sales have ridiculous margins, too, which JHH loves dearly.
 
Last edited:

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,262
5,259
136
For someone who says companies aren't our friends (they aren't) you do an awful lot of shilling for NVIDIA. Who cares how much their AI stuff is selling for? This is the graphics card section of a technology forum. I very much doubt anyone here is buying that type of equipment.


Please point out the "shilling" in that post, because I fail to see how noting that it's obvious to curtail production when your channel is full, or that they have a more lucrative stream for wafers is shilling...
 

Kocicak

Senior member
Jan 17, 2019
982
973
136
I tried to demonstrate that the cards are selling. They may not be selling very quickly due to what they are, but Nvidia may not care because as was mentioned above they may have a better use for the freed wafer capacity.

For somebody wanting to buy a new gen. efficient card in that performance bracket, there is no other option today, and you have to buy it even if you do not like, that is has only 12 GB of RAM.
 

Dribble

Platinum Member
Aug 9, 2005
2,076
611
136
For someone who says companies aren't our friends (they aren't) you do an awful lot of shilling for NVIDIA. Who cares how much their AI stuff is selling for? This is the graphics card section of a technology forum. I very much doubt anyone here is buying that type of equipment.
It matters because it shows that Nvidia has more profitable ways to use it's wafer allocation then make desktop gpu's. That effects our chances of being able to get a cheaper one.
 

blckgrffn

Diamond Member
May 1, 2003
9,198
3,185
136
www.teamjuchems.com
It matters because it shows that Nvidia has more profitable ways to use it's wafer allocation then make desktop gpu's. That effects our chances of being able to get a cheaper one.
That's true so long as there are constraints, if they are already making all the AI chips they can sell (unknown?) then they still need to move to make as much money in a given quarter as they can, even it if they do it by selling lesser margin products.

Think of the shareholders

I am not sure how much insight we have into this, and how long ahead of time these decisions are being made.
 

MrTeal

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,586
1,746
136
Is there a reason to think that Nvidia can shift wafer allocation around between Hopper on N4 and Ada on 5nm? I'm not sure how much the processes are transferable even one if just an enhancement of the other.
 

Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
3,385
7,151
136
That's true so long as there are constraints, if they are already making all the AI chips they can sell (unknown?) then they still need to move to make as much money in a given quarter as they can, even it if they do it by selling lesser margin products.

Think of the shareholders

I am not sure how much insight we have into this, and how long ahead of time these decisions are being made.
I doubt they have exhausted their alternative, higher margin revenue sources. But you're right, in the general sense, any for-profit business should prioritize the segments that make the most profit first before focusing on the lower margin businesses. Any amount of attention on the lower margin business is just there to maintain presence in that market and not to encourage growth, because the company's efforts should be on growing the higher margin revenue sources first.
 

Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
3,385
7,151
136
Yup all is well

WCCFTech... Them be some biased mofos. When Nvidia halts production to avoid over supply/inventory management, they report things quite objectively.

But when AMD says they are slowing production for the same reasons, it's because they want to keep prices high.

What sensationalist POSes.

 

PJVol

Senior member
May 25, 2020
622
556
136
Think of the shareholders
I can't help feeling of the unobtrusive "thinking (or speaking) like a shareholder" in some posts.

Who care a damn thing what they gonna shift/allocate and what profit/margins or whatever the hell else it impact. I suspect the only things matters in the end for the majority of people here is the product value in a retail.
And outside of the US 4070's value is really poor, and closer to $700.
 
Last edited:

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
28,824
21,608
146
I doubt they have exhausted their alternative, higher margin revenue sources. But you're right, in the general sense, any for-profit business should prioritize the segments that make the most profit first before focusing on the lower margin businesses. Any amount of attention on the lower margin business is just there to maintain presence in that market and not to encourage growth, because the company's efforts should be on growing the higher margin revenue sources first.
This explains AMD's actions as well. Enterprise is going the best it has for them, maybe ever. The PC market has continued to drop off hard for what? 3 straight Qs now? Close to 750 million PCs were sold in 20-21, something like 200 million of those were desktops. Everyone that needed one, has a modern PC now. Normies are out of the market. Combine that with economic conditions, and here we are. Both Nvidia and AMD sort of phoning it in, if you will, in the gaming market isn't surprising if viewed that way.

Someone quipped it feels like a duopoly, where both have an unspoken agreement to keep margins high. I am almost ready to subscribe to that newsletter. If they can't do big volume, may as well make as much as you can on every sale.

Now to eat some crow. @SteveGrabowski

You were right, I was wrong. The launch is a confirmed dud. It'll take a significant price cut for there to be any chance of the 4070 being the new 970. BTW, the crow is delicious, I am stoked my worst instincts about gamers were not realized.
 

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,262
5,259
136
Is there a reason to think that Nvidia can shift wafer allocation around between Hopper on N4 and Ada on 5nm? I'm not sure how much the processes are transferable even one if just an enhancement of the other.

NVidia claims both are built on "4N" process version.

4N is just NVidia naming their individual process tweaks of TSMC 5nm process family. TSMC could run 5nm AMD chips the next week on the same hardware, with AMD's own special tweaks.

Every company gets their own unique production tweaks as they dial in their products, it just seems that only NVidia delves into extra marketing by naming their process tweaks.
 
Reactions: Saylick and MrTeal

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
8,010
6,454
136
I haven't seen a solid argument against Steam survey results.

It's a survey that people self-select into. As soon as you have something that isn't a sufficiently random sample of the population the confidence in the accuracy of the results decreases.

This is mathematics, not a nitpick. Does this mean that the Steam Hardware survey is completely useless or that it's just as likely for the results of the survey to be completely the opposite of what the results show as it is for it to be off by only 10%? No, of course not. But the people who want to use it to support claims are treating the results with more confidence than they deserve.

If Valve published all of the data, someone could actually calculate error bars for the data based on sampling methodology and response rate, but you'd still need to account for other data anomalies as the user base of Steam almost certainly skews Western, and probably American on top of that.

Even if we could get accurate statistics, they'd only be used by people to make appeals to popularity or other forms of pointless wankery. Arguments essentially akin to a claim that a McDonald's burger must be better than an In and Out burger because they sell far more burgers.
 
Reactions: Cableman

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
28,824
21,608
146
I can't help feeling of the unobtrusive "thinking (or speaking) like a shareholder" in some posts.

Who care a damn thing what they gonna shift/allocate and what profit/margins or whatever the hell else it impact. I suspect the only things matters in the end for the majority people here is the product value in a retail.
Yup, but it is par for the course. You learn quickly to tell the difference between the players and the fans. Trying to polish this turd of a launch is a bad look.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |