4070TI reviews thread

[BFG10K]

NVIDIA France Accidentally Reveals GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Specs

With less than a week to go until the official launch of the GeForce RTX 4070 Ti, NVIDIA France has gone and spoiled things by revealing the official specs of the upcoming GPU. The French division of NVIDIA appears to have posted the full product page, but it has since then been pulled. That...

www.techpowerup.com

First official performance leak. A perfect opportunity to highlight the fraud pushed by nVidia with DLSS.

Performance looks fantastic, right? Look again, at the smallprint - 4070 is using frame generation.

I said exactly this would happen as soon as DLSS 3.0 was announced. 2560x1440 is a lie given it's actually ~1080p due to legacy DLSS. Since nVidia got away with it, the next step is frame interpolation lies. It's "faster", yo!

Adjusting for frame generation (i.e. halve the 4070's bars), it's actually barely faster than the 3080 in MFS, and slower in Warhammer 40K. All this from a card that will likely cost more.

Customers not seeing the smallprint and/or not understanding DLSS are having systematic fraud perpetuated on them.


Reviews

MSI GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Gaming X Review

MSI's GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Gaming X comes with a large triple-fan, triple-slot thermal solution that runs at whisper-quiet noise levels with low temperatures. In terms of performance the new card is able to match last generation's flagship, the RTX 3090 Ti, and offers new features like DLSS 3...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Carfax83]

The same people hoping that the RTX 4080 would crater in demand and thus price (how did that turn out eh?) are the same people that are going to be disappointed when the RTX 4070 Ti sells well and holds its value.

You just don't get it. The graphics market is essentially a monopoly, and so Nvidia can charge these exorbitant prices for these luxury products knowing full well that there are many consumers that will still buy them. AMD has not provided worthy competition for a long time now. The fact that an RTX 4080 is the bestselling GPU on Newegg at MSRP (and above it) and that my local Microcenter has sold out of RTX 4080s tells me everything I need to know about the current GPU market, and AMD is nearly irrelevant. Only Intel can return balance back to the GPU market, but that won't be for several years unfortunately.

The RTX 4000 series are extremely advanced cutting-edge graphics cards with killer feature sets. And while many of you like to make fun of DLSS 3 being "fake frames" and what not, it is extremely useful when games are CPU bound; which unfortunately happens too frequently these days due to unskilled developers thinking they can tackle low level APIs. And like I said in the RTX 4080 thread about not underestimating Nvidia's ability to optimize and refine through driver updates, Nvidia has already been working to improve DLSS 3's quality. I personally can't tell the difference between when it is on and off in the few games that I've tried, so to me it's worthy of being taken seriously rather than mocked and derided.

 

[PJVol]

Which one to choose? Not sure.

Нow appropriate in such circumstances is the very concept of choice? Both are overpriced piece of **** so far.

 

[Golgatha]

Yep it's a memory bottleneck. At least there'd be easy room for a refresh if/when GDDR7 is made available.

They should have named this a 4070 and gone with 4070 Ti for the refresh then.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

They should have named this a 4070 and gone with 4070 Ti for the refresh then.

4060 Ti tbh

 

[Golgatha]

In summary, in terms of FPS/$, the halo cards (4090 and 7900 XTX) both look like "good values".

 

[PJVol]

The RTX 4000 series are extremely advanced cutting-edge graphics cards with killer feature sets.

Wow... forgot to add "It's safe to upgrade now!" or something...

 

[Golgatha]

4060 Ti tbh

Fair, I was being nice. Side note, I'm feeling pretty good about getting my son a 2nd hand 3080 10GB for $500 for his computer.

 

[jpiniero]

They should have named this a 4070 and gone with 4070 Ti for the refresh then.

They are saving 4070 for the cut AD104. And yes 3080 performance for $699 seems like the most likely outcome.

I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up calling the refresh 50 series.

 

[Carfax83]

Wow... forgot to add "It's safe to upgrade now!" or something...

It's been safe to upgrade for a long time now.......unless you have the dexterity of a bovine.

 

[MrPickins]

AMD has not provided worthy competition for a long time now.

You keep saying that, and it may be true on the high-end of cards, but where most people buy (midrange-upper midrange) AMD has been the better perf/$ recently.

 

[Stuka87]

NV, as we generally know, does a good job giving you all the performance up front so I don't expect too many surprises there.

It could also be argued that NV cards tend to get slower as they age as they tend to not get optimizations for the newest games later in their life cycle as NV wants to make sure the newest cards look better.

 

[Carfax83]

You keep saying that, and it may be true on the high-end of cards, but where most people buy (midrange-upper midrange) AMD has been the better perf/$ recently.

If you're looking purely at performance perhaps. But what about feature set? Nvidia's DLSS and RT technology is superior to AMD's, and couple that with perceived superior driver support, most people are going to go with Nvidia even if it costs more.

You have to look at all angles to explain why so many people are preferring Nvidia over AMD.

 

[MrPickins]

If you're looking purely at performance perhaps. But what about feature set? Nvidia's DLSS and RT technology is superior to AMD's, and couple that with perceived superior driver support, most people are going to go with Nvidia even if it costs more.

For midrange, RT is a non-issue. As for DLSS, I'd much prefer an open standard like FSR.

You have to look at all angles to explain why so many people are preferring Nvidia over AMD.

A lot of it is due to marketing, bias and bandwagoning, IMO. (A lot of it "perceived" as you describe the superior driver support).

Hyperbolic posts like the one of yours I quoted earlier help drive that misperception.

 

[Timorous]

If you're looking purely at performance perhaps. But what about feature set? Nvidia's DLSS and RT technology is superior to AMD's, and couple that with perceived superior driver support, most people are going to go with Nvidia even if it costs more.

You have to look at all angles to explain why so many people are preferring Nvidia over AMD.

The 4070Ti is slower at RT than the 7900XT in a good number of titles so I don't expect that advantage to hold.

 

[Mopetar]

It's definitely a deeper cut than what even the 3080ti went through, 128/144 SMs is already a deeper bin than 80/84 SMs proportionally and that's even before taking into account that the 4090 only has 72/96MB possible L2 Cache in AD102.

Well that's the problem when a design is shared between pro and consumer products. Even if you could buy a less cut due for $2000 or $2500, that's still far less than the professional and data center customers will pay.

The flip side of this is that if Nvidia made a pure gaming card, they could probably offer similar performance for far fewer transistors. That would allow for a smaller die with lower defect rates and lower cost.

You can get an AIB 7900xt at MSRP on Amazon at the moment. Jensen has a loose screw somewhere.

He knows how much of a brand premium he has and isn't afraid to price accordingly.

TPU put two versions of the card on their Performance per Dollar chart. But its not notably better than the 7900 XT (at least in TPU's tests). They are basically equal. Pay 50 bucks more for the 7900 XT, and get $50 more performance.

I think the 8 GB of VRAM for $50 is the bigger factor here. I think there's a good chance the 4070 Ti falls off harder in three or four years Ti than a 3090 or a 7900XT for that reason.

 

[Heartbreaker]

We can assume that vanilla 4070 when it exists, will be for all intents and purposes replace the 3080 in performance while using ~50-70% of the power? That's my assumption. Will it cost... $699?

Probably. For a couple of releases now, the mid to lower end of the line up gets total stagnation in perf/$.

It's really only the flagship that makes much "sense" to buy if looking for a big generation gain. Hence why something like the 4090 sells out even at the outrageous base MSRP of $1600.

 

[NomanA]

If you're looking purely at performance perhaps. But what about feature set? Nvidia's DLSS and RT technology is superior to AMD's, and couple that with perceived superior driver support, most people are going to go with Nvidia even if it costs more.

AMD's FSR works really well, and I use it all the time on 6700XT and even 5700XT. In addition, the drivers have added a new resolution upscaling method (not sure what it's called, RSR?), where you just enable it in the drivers, and then if you reduce game-resolution, the driver does the upscaling to desktop resolution. It's such a great feature, because it doesn't need game support (unlike FSR/DLSS), and works quite reasonably well. I have a 4K monitor and if I have to turn on AA, I just lower the resolution in games instead (3200x1800 for example), and the automatic driver upscaling gives pretty good result and performance at 4K.

Of course, if FSR is supported, I always select that option, but in its absence, RSR works pretty well, with the only requirement (for RSR) that the game be running in full-screen mode.

 

[blckgrffn]

I feel like when the 3070 launched, if things hadn't been so weird, it would have been perceived as solid launch.



I mean, it gapped the 2080 (non-super) really hard and at a bargain price of $500 USD. I know reality happened but yikes. I'll have to look more, maybe it provides the same 100% improvement over the 2 gen back 2070 like the 3070 does, but when it just costs 100% more that's... not really progress for us.

I am all about the huge margin flagship cards. That's why they exist. But this gouging in the middle tiers is not so nice.

Hopefully silicon will stack up and we'll something interesting in the $400 range because that's my personal sweet spot and it's all about me.

 

[PJVol]

and couple that with perceived superior driver support, most people are going to go with Nvidia even if it costs more.

The thing is you looking at it as a shareholder, and from this view NV doing it's job perfectly, but I believe there's many who don't give a **** where "most people" gonna go, so let's leave the flock to the shepherds.

 

[Carfax83]

For midrange, RT is a non-issue. As for DLSS, I'd much prefer an open standard like FSR.

RT may have been a no go for past generations, but for Lovelace, RT will likely be possible with midrange products provided DLSS 2.xx or 3 is also turned on.

And I understand your preference for open standards, but the average consumer doesn't care about that. They just want it to work, and they also care about the quality and overall experience, which favors DLSS over FSR.

A lot of it is due to marketing, bias and bandwagoning, IMO. (A lot of it "perceived" as you describe the superior driver support).

When was the last time you saw an Nvidia advertisement on T.V? I can't even recall seeing one. You underestimate the intelligence of the average PC enthusiast or gamer. Most of their buying decisions are influenced by reviews on websites and YouTube.

Last year post Lovelace launch, my nephew ordered an Asus ROG RTX 3080 from Newegg. I was surprised at this because he has zero knowledge of PC hardware and building. Apparently he had been doing his research however and he consequently went on to buy an Intel 13700K and paid a system builder to put it together for him. This is with no input or advice from myself.

Hyperbolic posts like the one of yours I quoted earlier help drive that misperception.

Whether you like it or not, the misperception exists and has existed for a very long time now. I haven't had an AMD card in a long time, but when I did (4870 in crossfire), that reputation was still present. I took a chance and decided to buy two HD 4870s from Newegg as they had reviewed well. Installed them, and I had tons of issues like high GPU core idling (one of the 4870s would not go into idle mode), flashing textures in Crysis and the original Witcher game just to name a few. Ended up having to return them both.

Haven't had an AMD card since then and I've only bought Nvidia. Never had to return an Nvidia card ever. And I'm not saying that my experience is representative of current AMD products, but sometimes all it takes is for someone to get burned just once to hold a negative view of a product or company.

 

[Carfax83]

The 4070Ti is slower at RT than the 7900XT in a good number of titles so I don't expect that advantage to hold.

That's without factoring RT and DLSS, and both technologies will be improving over time. When SER is implemented, RT performance is going to increase significantly.

 

[Carfax83]

AMD's FSR works really well, and I use it all the time on 6700XT and even 5700XT. In addition, the drivers have added a new resolution upscaling method (not sure what it's called, RSR?), where you just enable it in the drivers, and then if you reduce game-resolution, the driver does the upscaling to desktop resolution. It's such a great feature, because it doesn't need game support (unlike FSR/DLSS), and works quite reasonably well. I have a 4K monitor and if I have to turn on AA, I just lower the resolution in games instead (3200x1800 for example), and the automatic driver upscaling gives pretty good result and performance at 4K.

Of course, if FSR is supported, I always select that option, but in its absence, RSR works pretty well, with the only requirement (for RSR) that the game be running in full-screen mode.

FSR has improved significantly since its debut I acknowledge, but DLSS is still ahead in terms of quality and adoption from what I've seen. DLAA is my favorite anti-aliasing technology as it cleans up an image like you wouldn't believe. And DLSS 3 is quite literally a game changer that AMD has no answer for.

Supposedly FSR 3.0 may have FG, but I am skeptical because it takes time and research to implement such a thing and AMD is well behind Nvidia when it comes to embracing A.I and machine learning.

 

[blckgrffn]

RT may have been a no go for past generations, but for Lovelace, RT will likely be possible with midrange products provided DLSS 2.xx or 3 is also turned on.

I guess it's all in your definition. What resolution, level of effect, FPS target, etc. is true RT?

Portal RTX just proved any "RT" capable card can be knee capped. It would be trivial to implement RT in a game that doesn't even run at this point.

For me, its the RT the consoles do. And for that, anything north of a 6700XT is probably good enough, comparing raw capability vs the consoles. Everything on top of that is gravy used by a tiny minority of titles.

Feel free to have a different definition, but the goal posts are going to be moved all over the place and its frankly exhausting. Don't expect folks to agree with you. I suspect most won't agree with me either.

 

[Carfax83]

The thing is you looking at it as a shareholder, and from this view NV doing it's job perfectly, but I believe there's many who don't give a **** where "most people" gonna go, so let's leave the flock to the shepherds.

Well it matters if you care about market competition. Strong competition benefits the consumer, but as long as AMD continues to make GPUs which are inferior to Nvidia's in terms of performance, performance per watt and feature set, then AMD will always have the "budget + bargain" moniker associated with their products.

 

[Carfax83]

I guess it's all in your definition. What resolution, level of effect, FPS target, etc. is true RT?

Portal RTX just proved any "RT" capable card can be knee capped. It would be trivial to implement RT in a game that doesn't even run at this point.

For me, its the RT the consoles do. And for that, anything north of a 6700XT is probably good enough, comparing raw capability vs the consoles. Everything on top of that is gravy used by a tiny minority of titles.

Well for me it has to be better than what the consoles get otherwise why invest in a gaming PC? And as I stated earlier, DLSS and RT quality and performance are going to be improved so I don't think it's a stretch to imagine an RTX 4060 Ti significantly outperforming what the consoles are capable of.

DLSS has already shown itself to be superior to any temporal upscaling/reconstruction technique used in consoles games to achieve a higher resolution output, and the RTX 4060 should definitely have a raw power advantage over the PS5 and XSX as well.

Feel free to have a different definition, but the goal posts are going to be moved all over the place and its frankly exhausting. Don't expect folks to agree with you. I suspect most won't agree with me either.

Well heck I've been getting downvoted for stating my opinion (by weak asses that don't want to debate) but my goal isn't to change minds so I don't care whether people agree with me or not. It seems to me that just having a contrary opinion is enough for people to downvote you.

Gotta love that herd mentality