4070TI reviews thread

[BFG10K]

NVIDIA France Accidentally Reveals GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Specs

With less than a week to go until the official launch of the GeForce RTX 4070 Ti, NVIDIA France has gone and spoiled things by revealing the official specs of the upcoming GPU. The French division of NVIDIA appears to have posted the full product page, but it has since then been pulled. That...

www.techpowerup.com

First official performance leak. A perfect opportunity to highlight the fraud pushed by nVidia with DLSS.

Performance looks fantastic, right? Look again, at the smallprint - 4070 is using frame generation.

I said exactly this would happen as soon as DLSS 3.0 was announced. 2560x1440 is a lie given it's actually ~1080p due to legacy DLSS. Since nVidia got away with it, the next step is frame interpolation lies. It's "faster", yo!

Adjusting for frame generation (i.e. halve the 4070's bars), it's actually barely faster than the 3080 in MFS, and slower in Warhammer 40K. All this from a card that will likely cost more.

Customers not seeing the smallprint and/or not understanding DLSS are having systematic fraud perpetuated on them.


Reviews

MSI GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Gaming X Review

MSI's GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Gaming X comes with a large triple-fan, triple-slot thermal solution that runs at whisper-quiet noise levels with low temperatures. In terms of performance the new card is able to match last generation's flagship, the RTX 3090 Ti, and offers new features like DLSS 3...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[sandorski]

All these cards should be 50% less in price. The people willing to pay these prices were using the cards for mostly making money. Those days are done.

 

[Carfax83]

All these cards should be 50% less in price. The people willing to pay these prices were using the cards for mostly making money. Those days are done.

Other than poor competition (thanks AMD), PC gaming has exploded in popularity along with the massive increase in video game popularity. It's no longer a niche hobby or pastime for tech savvy nerds. Even with all the issues associated with PC gaming, it's still better than console gaming overall.

Video games are now a bigger market than movies and music combined. The biggest entertainment sector by far. Sorry, but the days of relatively inexpensive graphics cards are likely over forever.

 

[NomanA]

FSR has improved significantly since its debut I acknowledge, but DLSS is still ahead in terms of quality and adoption from what I've seen. DLAA is my favorite anti-aliasing technology as it cleans up an image like you wouldn't believe. And DLSS 3 is quite literally a game changer that AMD has no answer for.

FSR works really well and I dont think there's any big difference between FSR2 and DLSS. I haven't checked DLSS3 articles.

In any case my point was about RSR as well which is a great technology and doesn't require anything that needs to be adopted. It works on any DX11 and higher game in Fullscreen mode.

I am running Horizon Zero Dawn, Guardian of Galaxy, Red Dead Redemption 2 and Psychonauts 2 with FSR and many other games (Skyrim for example) with RSR - all in 4K on 6700XT. For that matter I recently tested Jedi Fallen Order on 5700XT with an old Skylake CPU and RSR works wonderfully well making the whole 4K experience very smooth on an OLED TV.

AMD cards and drivers have enough features of their own too but they are generally not talked about. There are just not enough AMD users on PC gaming forums and most of the AMD talk goes in the direction of Nvidia PR talking points instead of actual experience of running the AMD cards.

Sorry for off topic post. I'll not post further regarding this issue in the thread.

 

[blckgrffn]

Other than poor competition (thanks AMD), PC gaming has exploded in popularity along with the massive increase in video game popularity. It's no longer a niche hobby or pastime for tech savvy nerds. Even with all the issues associated with PC gaming, it's still better than console gaming overall.

Video games are now a bigger market than movies and music combined. The biggest entertainment sector by far. Sorry, but the days of relatively inexpensive graphics cards are likely over forever.

You claim you don't want to change minds but to me your continuous posting cries out that you want folks to agree with you. I don't get it.

This is a 4070Ti review thread, so I won't derail it further but PC gaming doesn't hinge on $1k graphics cards. I've built and sold a couple dozen of "gaming" PCs in as many months (quite a challenge during Covid) and man, something like a 3060Ti or 6700XT is a luxury for gaming. Plenty of folks pushing old cards, etc. We also have some of the cheapest gaming rigs ever thanks to integrated graphics that A) are made for 3D and B) get driver support. Not every source of video game revenue comes from AAA titles.

It's like saying the automotive industry is huge so we can all expect cars to be priced like optioned out Porsches. There, @moonbogg I added the prerequisite terrible car analogy. You're welcome.

Ok, you're right. I derailed it further. My bad.

 

[sandorski]

Other than poor competition (thanks AMD), PC gaming has exploded in popularity along with the massive increase in video game popularity. It's no longer a niche hobby or pastime for tech savvy nerds. Even with all the issues associated with PC gaming, it's still better than console gaming overall.

Video games are now a bigger market than movies and music combined. The biggest entertainment sector by far. Sorry, but the days of relatively inexpensive graphics cards are likely over forever.

Gamers are not Upgrading to these cards. They are keeping older cards.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Gamers are not Upgrading to these cards. They are keeping older cards.

Just like every release, some gamers will upgrade and some won't.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Gamers are not Upgrading to these cards. They are keeping older cards.

I need to call the Ghost Busters and have them bust Rollo's ghost, it won't stop haunting this forum.

As to the 4070ti: The full court press is doing its job. The way they use AMD as the justification for it not being another trout smack in the face. The Ferengi math they use to back it up. It won't be long now until we finally reach the GPU equivalent of- Now, all restaurants are Taco Bell.

 

[Carfax83]

You claim you don't want to change minds but to me your continuous posting cries out that you want folks to agree with you. I don't get it.

On a pro AMD forum such as this one, I don't really expect to get traction in changing minds.

This is a 4070Ti review thread, so I won't derail it further but PC gaming doesn't hinge on $1k graphics cards. I've built and sold a couple dozen of "gaming" PCs in as many months (quite a challenge during Covid) and man, something like a 3060Ti or 6700XT is a luxury for gaming. Plenty of folks pushing old cards, etc. We also have some of the cheapest gaming rigs ever thanks to integrated graphics that A) are made for 3D and B) get driver support. Not every source of video game revenue comes from AAA titles.

I agree. The 4070 Ti isn't $1K, nor will the RTX 4060/ 4060 Ti be $1K. The 4060 series will sell more than any of the high end cards and should be more powerful than what's in the XSX and PS5 while having the Lovelace feature set.

It's like saying the automotive industry is huge so we can all expect cars to be priced like optioned out Porsches. There, @moonbogg I added the prerequisite terrible car analogy. You're welcome.

I don't know why you think I claimed that high end is the only option. What language did I use to make you think this?

I was just saying that PC gaming has exploded in popularity so gaming class graphics cards are in greater demand than they have ever been. When I first got into PC gaming, the first high end card I bought was a Geforce 2 Ultra which had an MSRP of $499 at the time. That was the most elite graphics card back then, but nowadays, that's what midrange cards are valued at.

Times change and the prices have gone up for several reasons, most notably demand, scarcity, increased R&D and manufacturing costs, and a monopolistic market that favors raw performance and quality over price/performance.

 

[VirtualLarry]

It won't be long now until we finally reach the GPU equivalent of- Now, all restaurants are Taco Bell.

 

[Carfax83]

Gamers are not Upgrading to these cards. They are keeping older cards.

Newegg's best selling GPU is an RTX 4080, and my local Microcenter is sold out of RTX 4080s so people are definitely buying them.

A lot of pro AMD people were hoping that Nvidia video card prices would crash post mining era, but that hasn't occurred. To be fair it did temporarily, but then corrected itself fairly quickly. A lot of pro AMD people were hoping that the RTX 4080 would not sell well but that hasn't occurred either.

This suggests demand for these products is still high.

 

[Saylick]

Newegg's best selling GPU is an RTX 4080, and my local Microcenter is sold out of RTX 4080s so people are definitely buying them.

A lot of pro AMD people were hoping that Nvidia video card prices would crash post mining era, but that hasn't occurred. To be fair it did temporarily, but then corrected itself fairly quickly. A lot of pro AMD people were hoping that the RTX 4080 would not sell well but that hasn't occurred either.

This suggests demand for these products is still high.

Or that supply is limited.

Yeah yeah, Nvidia paid for a bunch of wafers that they have to use, but there's other avenues where Nvidia can make and sell products besides RTX 4080s and 4090s. If I were JHH, I too would only offer limited supply of Lovelace to protect Ampere sales while selling as much server GPUs as possible. If JHH's words are true that Hopper is selling like hotcakes, and I have no reason to doubt him when it comes to enterprise GPU sales, then they can focus on ultra-high margin server products for a few quarters anyways.

 

[moonbogg]

The 4070Ti is yet another good card at a high price. The reason the mining flood didn't happen is because Nvidia kept price/performance the same or even went backwards this generation. There was no 70 class card for $500 that performed like a 3090. If there was, then the flood would have been huge. Nvidia stopped that by simply making the new cards so expensive that old cards held their value. The only problem I see is that Nvidia and AMD can't move enough product at these prices. There's no way the mainstream market is paying $1000 for a 4070Ti, and that's about what they cost after tax etc. The Asus tuf is already $850 so the Strix will probably be a clean $1000. The 4070Ti is a little faster than a 3080 and is also about $200 more expensive on average. Very strange indeed.

 

[In2Photos]

The 4070Ti is yet another good card at a high price. The reason the mining flood didn't happen is because Nvidia kept price/performance the same or even went backwards this generation. There was no 70 class card for $500 that performed like a 3090. If there was, then the flood would have been huge. Nvidia stopped that by simply making the new cards so expensive that old cards held their value. The only problem I see is that Nvidia and AMD can't move enough product at these prices. There's no way the mainstream market is paying $1000 for a 4070Ti, and that's about what they cost after tax etc. The Asus tuf is already $850 so the Strix will probably be a clean $1000. The 4070Ti is a little faster than a 3080 and is also about $200 more expensive on average. Very strange indeed.

Good points. I think I saw that the Strix is going to be $950 and the Strix OC is $1050.

 

[MrPickins]

RT may have been a no go for past generations, but for Lovelace, RT will likely be possible with midrange products provided DLSS 2.xx or 3 is also turned on.

And I understand your preference for open standards, but the average consumer doesn't care about that. They just want it to work, and they also care about the quality and overall experience, which favors DLSS over FSR.

Got anything to back that up, or is that just your perception?

When was the last time you saw an Nvidia advertisement on T.V? I can't even recall seeing one. You underestimate the intelligence of the average PC enthusiast or gamer. Most of their buying decisions are influenced by reviews on websites and YouTube.

Since when does marketing have to be on TV? I'm talking about the marketing points that Nvidia puts out (the same ones you're reiterating over and over here). And no, I don't think most average gamers do a ton of research. They see a few people's opinion on reddit or whatever and go for it.

Whether you like it or not, the misperception exists and has existed for a very long time now.

In large part to very vocal critics, such as yourself. You haven't even used an AMD card in years, but you're still quick to bad-mouth their current offerings. You're fueling that misperception.

In either case, I'm done derailing. Have yourself a nice day.

 

[Thunder 57]

Other than poor competition (thanks AMD), PC gaming has exploded in popularity along with the massive increase in video game popularity. It's no longer a niche hobby or pastime for tech savvy nerds. Even with all the issues associated with PC gaming, it's still better than console gaming overall.

Video games are now a bigger market than movies and music combined. The biggest entertainment sector by far. Sorry, but the days of relatively inexpensive graphics cards are likely over forever.

What's aged better, the RX 480/580 8GB or the 1060 6GB or *shudder* 3GB? What was wrong with RDNA2? People never gave it a chance because of all the NVIDA cheerleaders and their megaphones on the Internet. Funny how they all want Intel to succeed now but they don't even mention AMD. You are quick to praise NVIDIA for drivers or features like DLSS 3 but haven't tried the competition in almost 15 years. When 80+% if the market owns your brand's products, they are going to get a lot of positive PR.

In the CPU world AMD finally turned the tide by competing and beating Intel all while people were tired of Intel's artificial segmentation and pricing nonsense. NVIDIA is not immune. They are getting a lot of flak in reviews this time around so hopefully we get a more even split in the market. A near monopoly is not healthy.

Newegg's best selling GPU is an RTX 4080, and my local Microcenter is sold out of RTX 4080s so people are definitely buying them.

A lot of pro AMD people were hoping that Nvidia video card prices would crash post mining era, but that hasn't occurred. To be fair it did temporarily, but then corrected itself fairly quickly. A lot of pro AMD people were hoping that the RTX 4080 would not sell well but that hasn't occurred either.

This suggests demand for these products is still high.

Why do you keep parroting that? It's bunk. I read on another forum why, I think Tomshardware, but I don't care enough to dig it up. Check out Amazon's top 50 which features no 4080's and tell me if that still sounds plausible.

On a pro AMD forum such as this one, I don't really expect to get traction in changing minds.

I agree. The 4070 Ti isn't $1K, nor will the RTX 4060/ 4060 Ti be $1K. The 4060 series will sell more than any of the high end cards and should be more powerful than what's in the XSX and PS5 while having the Lovelace feature set.

I don't know why you think I claimed that high end is the only option. What language did I use to make you think this?

I was just saying that PC gaming has exploded in popularity so gaming class graphics cards are in greater demand than they have ever been. When I first got into PC gaming, the first high end card I bought was a Geforce 2 Ultra which had an MSRP of $499 at the time. That was the most elite graphics card back then, but nowadays, that's what midrange cards are valued at.

Times change and the prices have gone up for several reasons, most notably demand, scarcity, increased R&D and manufacturing costs, and a monopolistic market that favors raw performance and quality over price/performance.

Since when is the x60 series ever been "high end"? That just a step above the x50 series. Also, I can play the price game. The Geforce 3 Ti200 launched at $200. The 8800GT was practically the only card that made sense and cost $200-250. Prices have skyrocketed in the past 2-4 generations, and it is not all because of inflation and costlier boards.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Well heck I've been getting downvoted for stating my opinion (by weak asses that don't want to debate) but my goal isn't to change minds so I don't care whether people agree with me or not. It seems to me that just having a contrary opinion is enough for people to downvote you.

Gotta love that herd mentality

I downvoted you for the moronic comment that AMD hasn't provided any worthy competition when AMD has the only cards it makes any sense to buy in the $200 to $700 range either because the Nvidia card is complete trash for the price (RTX 3050 that performs like a 1660 Super from 2019) or is VRAM gimped so will age badly (RTX 3060 Ti / 3070 / 3070 Ti). Haven't seen a 3080 for $700 in a while and that's the lowest end Nvidia card that's decent.

Also I was the first to downvote you for that reply.

 

[Carfax83]

Got anything to back that up, or is that just your perception?

DLSS is objectively superior to FSR because it has higher adoption rate, been around for longer, uses A.I and machine learning, has less artifacts and ghosting. There are lots of comparisons all over the internet.

Using A.I and machine learning is a big advantage that DLSS has over FSR.

Since when does marketing have to be on TV? I'm talking about the marketing points that Nvidia puts out (the same ones you're reiterating over and over here). And no, I don't think most average gamers do a ton of research. They see a few people's opinion on reddit or whatever and go for it.

You can believe what you want, but people aren't as ignorant as you think. It's not exactly hard to find GPU reviews whether on YouTube or on websites. If they are tech savvy enough to build a gaming PC, they are tech savvy enough to research these products.

In large part to very vocal critics, such as yourself. You haven't even used an AMD card in years, but you're still quick to bad-mouth their current offerings. You're fueling that misperception.

In either case, I'm done derailing. Have yourself a nice day.

Yeah, people like me are to blame for no one wanting to buy AMD's crappy video cards

It's ironic that I can't even recall ever telling anyone that wanted to buy an AMD graphics card to buy an Nvidia one instead. Apparently just stating my opinion is enough to sway ignorant buyers towards Nvidia

 

[Carfax83]

What's aged better, the RX 480/580 8GB or the 1060 6GB or *shudder* 3GB? What was wrong with RDNA2? People never gave it a chance because of all the NVIDA cheerleaders and their megaphones on the Internet. Funny how they all want Intel to succeed now but they don't even mention AMD. You are quick to praise NVIDIA for drivers or features like DLSS 3 but haven't tried the competition in almost 15 years. When 80+% if the market owns your brand's products, they are going to get a lot of positive PR.

I'll try their products when they make them faster and more feature rich than the competition. I'm not going to charity buy their crap just because they are the underdog.

A near monopoly is not healthy.

Now this I agree with. Nobody likes monopolies, but in order to break a monopoly, a competitor has to have compelling products. AMD's video cards are not compelling products compared to Nvidia's offerings.

Why do you keep parroting that? It's bunk.

It's easy to verify this yourself you know, you don't have to take my word. But since you're unwilling to verify it for yourself here:

Desktop Graphics Cards | Video Cards - Newegg.com

Since when is the x60 series ever been "high end"? That just a step above the x50 series.

I think you need to reread my statement. I never said the xx60 series was high end. I said that it would outsell the high end cards because midrange cards are more affordable.

High end typically starts around the xx70 mark.

Also, I can play the price game. The Geforce 3 Ti200 launched at $200. The 8800GT was practically the only card that made sense and cost $200-250. Prices have skyrocketed in the past 2-4 generations, and it is not all because of inflation and costlier boards.

Does it matter why they've gone up? All I know is that those days are over and they won't be coming back I wager.

 

[insertcarehere]

You keep saying that, and it may be true on the high-end of cards, but where most people buy (midrange-upper midrange) AMD has been the better perf/$ recently.

Define Perf/$. Because any metric which weighs Ray-tracing significantly (many in this forum don't but that's opinion at this point) and the perf/$ advantage evaporates quickly.

From recent marketshare data Nvidia has been able to retain significantly more percentage of sales than AMD has, so clearly they are doing something right to attract customers despite supposed inferior performance.

Well that's the problem when a design is shared between pro and consumer products. Even if you could buy a less cut due for $2000 or $2500, that's still far less than the professional and data center customers will pay.

The flip side of this is that if Nvidia made a pure gaming card, they could probably offer similar performance for far fewer transistors. That would allow for a smaller die with lower defect rates and lower cost.

Agreed, although GA102 and AD102 both are in plenty of professional use GPUs so no difference there.

 

[Ranulf]

The same people hoping that the RTX 4080 would crater in demand and thus price (how did that turn out eh?) are the same people that are going to be disappointed when the RTX 4070 Ti sells well and holds its value.

You just don't get it. The graphics market is essentially a monopoly, and so Nvidia can charge these exorbitant prices for these luxury products knowing full well that there are many consumers that will still buy them. AMD has not provided worthy competition for a long time now. The fact that an RTX 4080 is the bestselling GPU on Newegg at MSRP (and above it) and that my local Microcenter has sold out of RTX 4080s tells me everything I need to know about the current GPU market, and AMD is nearly irrelevant. Only Intel can return balance back to the GPU market, but that won't be for several years unfortunately.

The RTX 4000 series are extremely advanced cutting-edge graphics cards with killer feature sets. And while many of you like to make fun of DLSS 3 being "fake frames" and what not, it is extremely useful when games are CPU bound; which unfortunately happens too frequently these days due to unskilled developers thinking they can tackle low level APIs. And like I said in the RTX 4080 thread about not underestimating Nvidia's ability to optimize and refine through driver updates, Nvidia has already been working to improve DLSS 3's quality. I personally can't tell the difference between when it is on and off in the few games that I've tried, so to me it's worthy of being taken seriously rather than mocked and derided.

What does it say about the gpu makers that they are relying on "fake frames" and techs like dlss (1 + 2 not fake 3) and fsr? AMD did this with some of their chart numbers on the 7900 cards and Nvidia just called the 4070ti faster than a 3090ti... with rt overdrive/dlss 3.0 on. But muh 160 fps! Witch please, give me the raw performance numbers. Oh, wait...they show stagnant price/perf or worse.

Oh, also I've heard from too many sources that 4080s are still mostly on shelves in NA and Europe given their prices to ignore it over what you saw at a local MC. To top it off, even LTT in their usually milquetoast reviews pointed out that their user poll showed 60%+ of their respondents dont use RT. Linus even brought up the console price comparison.

But I thank you. You just might convince me to give Intel and the Arc 770 a shot.

 

[MrPickins]

DLSS is objectively superior to FSR because it has higher adoption rate, been around for longer, uses A.I and machine learning, has less artifacts and ghosting. There are lots of comparisons all over the internet.

Using A.I and machine learning is a big advantage that DLSS has over FSR.

The comparisons I have seen make it a wash between the two, and I don't really care which has been around longer. What I care more about is that a huge number more cards will be able to run FSR than DLSS.

You can believe what you want, but people aren't as ignorant as you think. It's not exactly hard to find GPU reviews whether on YouTube or on websites. If they are tech savvy enough to build a gaming PC, they are tech savvy enough to research these products.

You've been on too many forums. The vast majority of people I run into in games or on Discord buy prebuilt gaming rigs and barely know what's inside them. Those are the kinds of buyers easily swayed by marketing and bandwagons.

Yeah, people like me are to blame for no one wanting to buy AMD's crappy video cards

It's ironic that I can't even recall ever telling anyone that wanted to buy an AMD graphics card to buy an Nvidia one instead. Apparently just stating my opinion is enough to sway ignorant buyers towards Nvidia

Yes exaxctly like you. I haven't ever seen you say that outright, but I've seen you bash AMD with hyperbolic, and frankly ignorant, statements about AMDs offerings often, though.

Define Perf/$. Because any metric which weighs Ray-tracing significantly (many in this forum don't but that's opinion at this point) and the perf/$ advantage evaporates quickly.

From recent marketshare data Nvidia has been able to retain significantly more percentage of sales than AMD has, so clearly they are doing something right to attract customers despite supposed inferior performance.

As I said earlier, RT is currently a non-starter on midrange hardware. And as for market share, their brand is undeniably stronger, even if the hardware isn't necessarily.


Back to the topic at hand, the 4070TI isn't a terrible GPU, IMO, but it needs to drop $100 in price at least, and more than 12GB of RAM would really help its longevity.

 

[Cableman]

Are there any 4070ti models that are 280mm or shorter? My case won't fit much longer than that. I checked most models and the Gigabyte Eagle seems to be the shortest at 301mm.

 

[Heartbreaker]

The comparisons I have seen make it a wash between the two, and I don't really care which has been around longer. What I care more about is that a huge number more cards will be able to run FSR than DLSS.

I've seen HWUB and Digital Foundry compare them a few times, and each time DLSS has the edge. On top of that you can run both DLSS and FRS on NVidia cards, so as a consumer, the NVidia cards get have the advantage here.

As I said earlier, RT is currently a non-starter on midrange hardware. And as for market share, their brand is undeniably stronger, even if the hardware isn't necessarily.

RT is NOT a non-starter on Midrange card, with DLSS/FRS. Especially since it's tunable in many games.

Back to the topic at hand, the 4070TI isn't a terrible GPU, IMO, but it needs to drop $100 in price at least, and more than 12GB of RAM would really help its longevity.

Needs to drop for what? Reality is that even at $799, those models will sell out, and/or get bought up by scalpers. Perf/$ beats the rest of the ADA parts, plus the 7900XT, and the 7900XTX is only a little better.

It would be nice if they dropped by another $100, and the scalpers didn't then buy them all up, but that's a fantasy on both fronts.

 

[beginner99]

2) Protect Ampere sales so that they can clear out channel inventory

I keep hearing this but 3080 and up are almost unavailable here and the few that are are growly overpriced, 3080s for $900, 3090s for $1400.
I'm not seeing any inventory issue at all. (and same for AMD 6800 XT and up)

 

[Carfax83]

I downvoted you for the moronic comment that AMD hasn't provided any worthy competition when AMD has the only cards it makes any sense to buy in the $200 to $700 range either because the Nvidia card is complete trash for the price (RTX 3050 that performs like a 1660 Super from 2019) or is VRAM gimped so will age badly (RTX 3060 Ti / 3070 / 3070 Ti). Haven't seen a 3080 for $700 in a while and that's the lowest end Nvidia card that's decent.

Also I was the first to downvote you for that reply.

You can buy whatever you want, I don't care. But apparently, a lot of people aren't interested in buying AMD GPUs despite them being much cheaper so something is obviously amiss. I have to admit I don't really look at the low end to midrange stuff so it's possible you may be right.

That said, the Lovelace offerings so far seem well equipped VRAM wise, much better than Ampere in that regard.