4070TI reviews thread

[BFG10K]

NVIDIA France Accidentally Reveals GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Specs

With less than a week to go until the official launch of the GeForce RTX 4070 Ti, NVIDIA France has gone and spoiled things by revealing the official specs of the upcoming GPU. The French division of NVIDIA appears to have posted the full product page, but it has since then been pulled. That...

www.techpowerup.com

First official performance leak. A perfect opportunity to highlight the fraud pushed by nVidia with DLSS.

Performance looks fantastic, right? Look again, at the smallprint - 4070 is using frame generation.

I said exactly this would happen as soon as DLSS 3.0 was announced. 2560x1440 is a lie given it's actually ~1080p due to legacy DLSS. Since nVidia got away with it, the next step is frame interpolation lies. It's "faster", yo!

Adjusting for frame generation (i.e. halve the 4070's bars), it's actually barely faster than the 3080 in MFS, and slower in Warhammer 40K. All this from a card that will likely cost more.

Customers not seeing the smallprint and/or not understanding DLSS are having systematic fraud perpetuated on them.


Reviews

MSI GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Gaming X Review

MSI's GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Gaming X comes with a large triple-fan, triple-slot thermal solution that runs at whisper-quiet noise levels with low temperatures. In terms of performance the new card is able to match last generation's flagship, the RTX 3090 Ti, and offers new features like DLSS 3...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Heartbreaker]

Why is not liking the 4000 series considered melting down lol?

No but claiming they should sell for $400 is a delusional meltdown. People need to live in reality, not their fantasies.

 

[NIGELG]

Continue to make excuses for and defend corporations.

Midrange cards should be less than 500 bucks or else the consoles will be more appealing.

 

[blckgrffn]

Continue to make excuses for and defend corporations.

Midrange cards should be less than 500 bucks or else the consoles will be more appealing.

I am waiting for $999 Pro Consoles. You might laugh, but I think they would sell out in reasonable volume.

(I would consider buying one... of each flavor.)

 

[Heartbreaker]

Midrange cards should be less than 500 bucks or else the consoles will be more appealing.

What is "midrange"? That seems more determined by price than a name on the box. If you want to define midrange as costing between $400 and $500, then fine, there will be $400 to $500 midrange cards. Note that MOST PC gamers don't need cards this powerful. The #1 card on Steam HW Survey is the GTX 1650.

More appealing to who? You really don't speak for anyone but yourself. If a console is more appealing. Buy a Console.

 

[NIGELG]

Appealing to sane people who don't want to be screwed over by Corporations.

But keep defending their pricing instead of seeing where things are heading.

 

[linkgoron]

What is "midrange"? That seems more determined by price than a name on the box. If you want to define midrange as costing between $400 and $500, then fine, there will be $400 to $500 midrange cards. Note that MOST PC gamers don't need cards this powerful. The #1 card on Steam HW Survey is the GTX 1650.

Or maybe PC gaming is so expensive that people are moving to consoles because they can't afford moving off from a GTX 1650.

What can these users upgrade to using the same $149 that they bought the GTX 1650 for?

 

[Heartbreaker]

Appealing to sane people who don't want to be screwed over by Corporations.

So anyone buying a current generation card is insane?

 

[coercitiv]

One of the reasons why CPU have not had a dramatic increase in cost is core counts have not increased as of late and CPU have shrunken in size.

On the desktop AMD has barely shrunk their chiplets in size, Intel has considerably increased their monolithic die in size. In mobile we have no clear trend of shrinking. Intel's Alder Lake M is bigger than Tiger Lake was, for example.

I think cards are overpriced but I think 50 percent of it is too much Amphere inventory and the other 50 is the increased cost of production.

We can all agree cost of production is higher than a few years ago, but even your 50% is far away from what Nvidia and AMD are attempting to do here.

All that being said though, if GPU companies cannot or will not offer positive increase in price/performance gen over gen, the industry is as good as dead. The entire upgrade cycle was based on strong upgrades that propelled gaming industry advances. Now, using the Lovelace precedent, the 5070 Ti will cost $1100+, the 6070 Ti will be $1500+. It's a death spiral. Or a hoax.

Personally, I doubt Moore's law died in the labs, I think it was butchered in Excel. I'm patiently waiting for the 2023 postmortem.

 

[NIGELG]

So anyone buying a current generation card is insane?

I have a 3070 so it's my segment in GPU'S. I actually prefer AMD but that's another strory and they are just as bad.

I don't expect the **70 series card to remain at 500 bucks but don't expect me to pay a huge increase (75% INCREASE?) for this class of cards. I think 550 to 650 bucks is a good range.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

No but claiming they should sell for $400 is a delusional meltdown. People need to live in reality, not their fantasies.

I think Nvidia is pretty delusional pricing these chips so the cards sell at $800 to $900. The market seems to think so too, as usually a new highish end Nvidia release sells out the first day but there is still very widespread availability of this dumpster fire of a card.

 

[Aapje]

The less perf/$ increases, the less often people will upgrade. If upgrade cycles get long enough, it becomes a replacement market, where people generally don't bother to upgrade until their GPU dies. And games will stagnate with their requirements when fewer people upgrade, which means that there is less reason to upgrade anyway.

My analysis is that the industry is now pretending to still follow Moore's law, but failing. They lie about the gains for each new process and they pretend that they can release new production processes when they can't. Even TSMC did a paper launch of N3. The current 'production' N3B will just be used by Apple and is more of a beta test than a proper process release. N3E will be the real N3 release and it will be too late for Moore's law. Intel and Samsung have obviously been failing to deliver new production processes on time as well.

At a certain point the lies will catch up to them. If I were them, I would transition to 3-year release cycles, which also means that they have a lot more time to recoup R&D, so the prices can more easily be kept in check. But I think that it is a matter of every company waiting to see who will bail out first, while driving head on to the cliff, because the one who bails will get the bad press..

 

[jpiniero]

A death sprial is certainly possible.

 

[Aapje]

Wafer costs have increased substantially, and GPU's are typically much larger than CPUs, so will feel the pain of this more.

5 years ago: NVidia Gross Margins 59%, most recent Quarter 58%.
5 years ago: AMD Gross Margins 42%, most recent Quarter 46%.

This does not reflect companies enjoying a massive margin increase.

LOL. Those margins are still insanely high given the huge downturn in the market and the huge oversupply issues. And in no way is it a sign of companies struggling with high costs.

 

[Heartbreaker]

All that being said though, if GPU companies cannot or will not offer positive increase in price/performance gen over gen, the industry is as good as dead. The entire upgrade cycle was based on strong upgrades that propelled gaming industry advances. Now, using the Lovelace precedent, the 5070 Ti will cost $1100+, the 6070 Ti will be $1500+. It's a death spiral. Or a hoax.

The sky is falling! Again...

The "upgrade cycle" doesn't drive the game industry. The game industry could care less. Consoles have a 10 year lifespan and game companies love that, and again, the vast majority of PC gamers are on low end GPUs. If you want your game to have a wide market, it MUST run on low end HW.

There two ends of the PC game market serve different ends. The vast addressable market on low end HW, and Halo HW to demonstrate leading edge gaming on. Game companies will be demoing the bells and whistles, showing off new advances in effects, on an RTX 4090, but mostly selling games to buyers with something more like a GTX 1650 or GTX 1060.

Also one release doesn't make a pattern. Turing had negligible perf/$ gains, then bounced back in Ampere.

I'm having major deja vu from the Turing launches. I remember back then everyone acting like Pascal was the average release, when it was one the best ever. Someone back then posted a chart of GPU advances and they moved in fits and starts over time, not Pascal like jumps every release.

But sure this GPU release cycle signals the death spiral of PC gaming.

Thanks for making my point that some people having a melt down over this.

 

[linkgoron]

There two ends of the PC game market serve different ends. The vast addressable market on low end HW, and Halo HW to demonstrate leading edge gaming on. Game companies will be demoing the bells and whistles, showing off new advances in effects, on an RTX 4090, but mostly selling games to buyers with something more like a GTX 1650 or GTX 1060.

You defeat your own point when you show that basically the low-end is just completely void of options, except 4+ year old cards. When the lowest end card is now $249, and is barely better than a 4 year old $279 card, it's much easier to go the console route than the PC route. Current rumors place the 4050 at something like ~5% faster than the 3050 (a third of the 4070ti).

According to you, "most" gamers don't have any relatively modern GPU within their budget.

 

[coercitiv]

Thanks for making my point that some people having a melt down over this.

You seem confused by how reductio ad absurdum works. But hey, no rush, you have more than a few months to figure it out.

 

[lopri]

How come NV did not bother to make a FE card?

 

[lopri]

In any case, I just keep boycotting these. Eventually the prices will crash after maybe a blow-off style gouging.

 

[moonbogg]

Both companies figured they'd test the waters with 2021 prices

What is "midrange"? That seems more determined by price than a name on the box. If you want to define midrange as costing between $400 and $500, then fine, there will be $400 to $500 midrange cards. Note that MOST PC gamers don't need cards this powerful. The #1 card on Steam HW Survey is the GTX 1650.

More appealing to who? You really don't speak for anyone but yourself. If a console is more appealing. Buy a Console.

I did. I'm not upgrading my GPU anymore. I bought a switch for the kids and we all have a blast playing with that thing. I got extra controllers, so we have 4. As far as my own wants are concerned, I've been buying 2-way radio equipment. So much more value out there than spending a grand on a GPU to play the same stupid PC games I'm already able to play.

 

[Heartbreaker]

In any case, I just keep boycotting these. Eventually the prices will crash after maybe a blow-off style gouging.

I've been boycotting GPUs for over a decade, and doesn't seem to be causing the prices to fall.

 

[Stuka87]

How come NV did not bother to make a FE card?

This was originally a 4080. And they did make a 4080 FE. But as this got renamed to 4070Ti, they don't have an FE. A 4070 FE will come at some point when the standard 4070 launches.

 

[Heartbreaker]

This was originally a 4080. And they did make a 4080 FE. But as this got renamed to 4070Ti, they don't have an FE. A 4070 FE will come at some point when the standard 4070 launches.

I am missing the logic of this decision. If they were originally going to have a 4080 12GB FE, why would they not have an FE of the renamed card?

 

[Stuka87]

I am missing the logic of this decision. If they were originally going to have a 4080 12GB FE, why would they not have an FE of the renamed card?

They didn't have a 12GB FE, they had a 16GB FE. The point is they had a "RTX 4080 FE". Just the single reference. Its bad enough they tried to make two entirely different 4080's, making two 4080 FE cards would have been even more confusing. And my thinking is, if they had two different FEs, it would have made it more obvious that they were two entirely different cards.

 

[Heartbreaker]

They didn't have a 12GB FE, they had a 16GB FE.

Highlights one of the problems with the original naming. You didn't specify, so in this context, I though you meant they were going to have a 12 GB FE.

 

[PJVol]

Rollo, please relogin.

And yes, the CPU or gaming console market live outside of reality with their funny retail prices it seems.

Whereas the reality is where let's say company #1 has become too greedy, and the company #2's graphics dept. decided to follow #1 for the reasons unknown.