Question 4070ti vs 7900xt

[Cableman]

It's time for me to upgrade my aging GTX1070 and I am trying to decide between the 4070ti and the 7900xt. The card will be bought through my employer ($900 is my hard limit) so those are my two options. I have a 4k 144hz monitor that I haven't been able to drive properly with the 1070.

I read and watched all the reviews I could find. The cards are basically the same price. The 7900xt beats the 4070ti in raster pretty much in every game. The weakness of the 7900xt seems to be RT, but it doesn't seem to be as bad as I expected. There are even games where it beats the 4070ti even with RT on. The 2 worst cases I saw were Control and Cyberpunk 2077. The one variable I'm not sure about is DLSS vs FSR - do we expect FSR to gain similar traction to DLSS? Is the 7900xt missing any features?

So overall, the two are priced the same (in practice), the 7900xt is faster without RT and just a bit slower with RT on. Is there a reason to consider the 4070ti over the 7900xt?

 

[Stuka87]

FSR 2 is being packaged into a lot of new games instead of DLSS. The reason is FSR/FSR2 work for nVidia, AMD, and Intel. So the developer puts the time in to implement one solution that works everywhere. Instead of spending twice as much time to implement DLSS and FSR, or just DLSS where they alienate a bunch of users. But many DLSS only games are backed by nVidia, so chance are they don't care.

I think something to consider is the amount of memory between the two cards. One has 12GB, and one has 20GB. And if you look through yesterdays benchmarks, the 4070Ti looks like its already being limited at 4K in some games due to only having 12GB. So while the 4070Ti may be slightly faster in RT, RT is also very memory hungry. So long term, it may end up being a lot slower with RT on because of memory limitations. So with you having a 4K display, I think a 12GB card is going to limit you down the road.

If you do decide to go with the 7900XT, the PowerColor HellHound and XFX Speedster are both better than the reference card for the same price. Though the XFX is a bit loud with the base fan curve, it does stay very cool.

For the 4070Ti, there isn't a reference card. But many of the AIB cards are $840-$850. So slightly cheaper than the 7900XT. But its also slower (up to 20% in raster for some games).

So, you must choose. But choose wisely

 

[Heartbreaker]

FSR 2 is being packaged into a lot of new games instead of DLSS.

Some additional perspective. More games have DLSS than FSR 2, and I see no evidence that is changing anytime soon, so advantage for a NVidia card.

An even bigger advantage. If you have NVidia card, you can use both DLSS and FSR2, so you have a significant advantage when it comes to scaling technology.

For the 4070Ti, there isn't a reference card. But many of the AIB cards are $840-$850. So slightly cheaper than the 7900XT. But its also slower (up to 20% in raster for some games).

Ah, yes the ever useful "up to". Here is the actual:

Nvidia GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Review

The GeForce RTX 4070 Ti is the same as the 'unlaunched' 12GB RTX 4080, but thankfully we're also getting a discount to $800, potentially making the RTX...

www.techspot.com

Starting with the 1440p data, here's our 16 game average. Based on everything we just saw, the GeForce RTX 4070 Ti is slightly slower than the 7900 XT on average, though it's just 4% slower which is very close for these two GPUs.

At 4K, the GeForce RTX 4070 Ti was 7% slower than the 7900 XT

There are several $799 models though it would have helped to act quick to get those, but if you have a Microcenter you might still get lucky.

At 7% slower and about 11% less expensive than the 7900 XT, the 4070 Ti has better perf/$ and noted in the review.

So better bang:buck even on raster, DLSS and FSR 2 support, better RT support... So yes choose wisely...

 

[SteveGrabowski]

AMD also has RSR that can be forced if FSR isn't supported. It looks pretty good for upscaling 1800p to 4k on Elden Ring on my 6700 XT, certainly better than just straight 1800p rendering. Performance is close enough though that the RT capabilities of the 4070 Ti vs the 20GB on the 7900 XT would make it a tough choice between the two for me. If you don't care about RT I'd go 7900 XT all the way, but 4070 Ti is a strong enough card that I wouldn't write off RT like I did when deciding between the 6700 XT vs 3060 Ti. Plus 4070 Ti doesn't have an insultingly low amount of VRAM like 3060 Ti / 3070 / 3070 Ti do.

 

[nurturedhate]

If you plan on keeping it as long as you did the 1070 I'd go w/ the larger vram and wider memory bus, usually those cards age better.

 

[Leeea]

The card will be bought through my employer ($900 is my hard limit) so those are my two options.

What sort of work apps are you going to use?

or is just for gaming? - if it is just gaming the 7900xt is the better choice, it is not even close. Most games are raster, and the superior memory capacity and bandwidth are going to age better.


If you have work apps, that might change things. But if your getting by with a gtx1070 those might not matter. May want to check compatibility lists though depending on what your running.

 

[Mopetar]

If you plan on keeping it as long as you did the 1070 I'd go w/ the larger vram and wider memory bus, usually those cards age better.

Definitely something to consider. Although NVidia generally does better in RT, I don't think that 12 GB of VRAM is going to be enough for 4k once we get three or so years down the road. I wouldn't be as concerned with the bandwidth given that Lovelace has a very large L2 cache that's somewhat similar to infinity cache and alleviates the need for a wider bus to a degree. The size of the memory will eventually become an issue though.

 

[fleshconsumed]

I'd go with AMD. There is high chance 12GB will start showing its age in another two years. 20GB XT will age a lot more gracefully than 12GB 4070Ti. To be honest, asking $800 for 12GB in 2023 is pathetic.

 

[dacostafilipe]

Ah, yes the ever useful "up to". Here is the actual:

Ah yes, those that only poste a single part of a really long review. Here's some nuance:

In short, the RTX 4070 Ti is 8% faster than the 7900 XT with ray tracing enabled, but 17% slower with it disabled.

The RTX 4070 Ti was on average 7% faster with RT, but 13% slower without RT enabled.

Go read the review, because those quotes without context don't tell the hole story.

I don't know what's worse, "up-to" or cherrypicking ...

 

[Heartbreaker]

Ah yes, those that only poste a single part of a really long review. Here's some nuance:

Go read the review, because those quotes without context don't tell the hole story.

I don't know what's worse, "up-to" or cherrypicking ...

LOL! Thats rich.

I quote the 16 Game average raster performance difference.

You accuse me of cherry picking, and respond by quoting the performance difference in ONE game.

It seems like you don't understand what Cherry Picking means.

 

[Mopetar]

I'd go with AMD. There is high chance 12GB will start showing its age in another two years. 20GB XT will age a lot more gracefully than 12GB 4070Ti. To be honest, asking $800 for 12GB in 2023 is pathetic.

Only thing to watch out for if you did go AMD is the reference models that have a cooling issue.

Edit: Apparently this is not the case for the reference XT models. Thanks @Leeea for pointing this out.

Another option is a 3090 if you can get a deal or find a used one. The performance is similar to the 4070 Ti and it has twice the VRAM.

 

[Stuka87]

Some additional perspective. More games have DLSS than FSR 2, and I see no evidence that is changing anytime soon, so advantage for a NVidia card.

An even bigger advantage. If you have NVidia card, you can use both DLSS and FSR2, so you have a significant advantage when it comes to scaling technology.



Ah, yes the ever useful "up to". Here is the actual:

Nvidia GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Review

The GeForce RTX 4070 Ti is the same as the 'unlaunched' 12GB RTX 4080, but thankfully we're also getting a discount to $800, potentially making the RTX...

www.techspot.com

There are several $799 models though it would have helped to act quick to get those, but if you have a Microcenter you might still get lucky.

At 7% slower and about 11% less expensive than the 7900 XT, the 4070 Ti has better perf/$ and noted in the review.

So better bang:buck even on raster, DLSS and FSR 2 support, better RT support... So yes choose wisely...

These are the charts I was referencing.

 

[Leeea]

Only thing to watch out for if you did go AMD is the reference models that have a cooling issue.

Another option is a 3090 if you can get a deal or find a used one. The performance is similar to the 4070 Ti and it has twice the VRAM.

Only the XTXs, he is looking at a XT.

Apparently none of the XTs had the cooling issue on the reference models.

 

[VirtualLarry]

2:50 in video.

Also: 12:40 in video, he talks about Nvidia over AMD bias.

GTX 1660-ish cards selling for MORE than RX 6600 in Oz.

 

[xpea]

Go for the RTX 4070Ti. It's the best product overall.
Performance is very similar but:
- DLSS3 + Reflex are killer features, without any equivalent from AMD, especially if your CPU is not last gen, DLSS3 is game changer. More than 50 games are coming with DLSS3 in a short time. That's a big plus.
- Nvidia ecosystem is miles ahead of AMD. Anything out of gaming? Nvidia simply works. CUDA is still a big plus.
- Nvidia Studio is great. RTX Remix, Omniverse, Broadcast, the coming AI video upscaling. So much features with Nvdia.
- And of course, if you do a bit of productivity, everything will work immediately with Nvidia. You want to do some rendering with Blender? Well, Nvidia is so much faster that even a future 7950XTX will be far behind RTX4070 Ti. It's a no brainer. Only Nvidia is the objective choice

So my advice is simple. You do only gaming and you have a fast CPU (12 or 13th i5-7 gen Intel or Zen4), then it's pretty similar, and you won't go wrong with AMD or Nvidia. But if you want to do more than gaming and/or your CPU is not ultra fast, then Nvidia is by far the best choice

PS: 12Gb will never be an issue at 1440p.

 

[Cableman]

Great advice, thank you everyone!

I didn't consider the memory differences initially, but I do have a 4k monitor and keep GPUs for a very long time. I still have a significant game backlog, but 20gb VRAM will definitely help with future games.

I haven't even tried RT yet so I can't say that's a deciding factor. And the 7900xt seems more than sufficient at that (not too much of a difference).

Raster is definitely better with the 7900xt and it's scaling better at 4k, the 4070ti does great at 1440p, but drops off more at 4k. It seems like a memory bus issue and that with the lower amount of memory might become a bigger issue in the future.

I read some more about the overheating issues with AMD. Thank you for confirming that it's just the XTX, I am only interested in the XT. I didn't see any reports from XT owners about it, but I was still apprehensive. It also seems to be affecting limited batches (not enough liquid in the vapor chambers?) so hopefully it will be a complete non-issue soon.

The 7900xt reference models are significantly smaller than the 4070ti. That is actually a major consideration as my case is not huge. 276mm vs 305mm for the smallest 4070ti (Gigabyte).

DLSS 3 doesn't seem that great as of now. It's useful as a rather niche feature, working best at a limited set of frames (not too low, not too high). AMD has stated that they'll have their own implementation so we'll see. Either way, I am not that excited about frame generation. Nvidia using both DLSS and FSR is a plus though, it really does ensure that whatever the game engine has, it will work. I wonder if in the future this will become more like Gsync - I see little point in using DLSS over FSR in a game if FSR works for both GPUs.

Work-wise, I do Machine Learning and while CUDA has become synonymous with ML, OpenCL does work well with some fiddling. I don't think this is a deal-breaker. The extra memory, though, might be a plus.

So I've made a decision - I ordered a 7900xt (haven't used AMD in ages!) and went with the XFX reference model. Got a small discount too! It's arriving on Friday so I'm pretty stoked for a major GPU jump.

 

[Khanan]

DLSS is the only upside 4070 Ti has, RT perf is barely better, and everything else a downside. Even the high efficiency of Ada is lost on the 4070 Ti due to stock high clocks that are beyond the sweet spot to try and match 7900XT. A usual praxis

 

[SteveGrabowski]

DLSS 3 doesn't seem that great as of now. It's useful as a rather niche feature, working best at a limited set of frames (not too low, not too high). AMD has stated that they'll have their own implementation so we'll see. Either way, I am not that excited about frame generation. Nvidia using both DLSS and FSR is a plus though, it really does ensure that whatever the game engine has, it will work. I wonder if in the future this will become more like Gsync - I see little point in using DLSS over FSR in a game if FSR works for both GPUs.

Yeah DLSS 3 doesn't look very interesting. First thing everyone does when gaming on their TV is go and turn all that frame interpolation crap off. It looked pretty lousy in Hardware Unboxed's review of DLSS 3, and they only recommended it for the corner case of when you can render 120 fps but are on a 240 Hz monitor. Microsoft Flight Simulator looked horrific with DLSS 3 and the idea of having input that feels like half the framerate doesn't sound great either. I always expected DLSS upscaling to end up an awesome feature but don't have high hopes for frame interpolation being very interesting.

 

[poke01]

I always expected DLSS upscaling to end up an awesome feature but don't have high hopes for frame interpolation being very interesting.

As of now DLSS 3 is not great. Remember DLSS 3 will improve and Nvidia already is making improvements it will release to the public in the coming months.

 

[poke01]

276mm vs 305mm for the smallest 4070ti (Gigabyte).

Not true. Inno3D has a 297mm model which is the smallest 4070 ti.

INNO3D GeForce RTX™ 4070 Ti X3 OC | Inno3D - Graphics Cards

www.inno3d.com

Every millimeter counts.

For your use case I would go with the 7900 XT. I have a 7900 XT and also want to get the RTX 4070 Ti in the future for Blender and want to see how DLSS 3 develops.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

As of now DLSS 3 is not great. Remember DLSS 3 will improve and Nvidia already is making improvements it will release to the public in the coming months.

It's still fake frames that aren't going to make your control feel any smoother. Not really expecting much useful out of DLSS 3.

 

[poke01]

FSR 2 is being packaged into a lot of new games instead of DLSS

What? I see both being packaged. If not rarely one game has FSR2 but no DLSS2 and one game has DLSS2 but no FS2(This happens when AMD or Nvidia sponser a game).

For example Spiderman has both DLSS 2 and FSR2 even it was made for AMD consoles but they added DLSS and that was a very recent game( Mid 2022).

Most people outside here prefer to use both DLSS and FSR which Nvidia cards do but certainly DLSS 2 uptake is not slowing down nor rising up.

DLSS 3 tho we will many games use that this year. Same with FSR3.

 

[poke01]

It's still fake frames that aren't going to make your control feel any smoother. Not really expecting much useful out of DLSS 3.

When DLSS 1 launched it was bad. Now DLSS 2.1 looks good.

Sure it won't beat real frames but 6 years down the road it might save a GPU from going to the landfill.

Owen explains it wonderfully. I still rather have this tech(DLSS 3 and FSR 3) than not have it. It might also extend the life a GPU.

 

[poke01]

If you plan on keeping it as long as you did the 1070 I'd go w/ the larger vram and wider memory bus, usually those cards age better.

Agreed but for 192 bit memory bus and 504GB/s of bandwidth I thought it would be far worse to be honest, the 7900 XT which is the direct competitor of this card has a 320 bit memory bus with 800Gb/s bandwidth but the performance gap isn't that large.

It puts up a very strong fight for what it has.

I thought the 4070 ti would be far slower than the RX 7900XT. The one thing I have respect for Nvidia is that their micro-architectures for the most part are very efficient and powerful. (Fermi excluded).

The 4070 Ti could have been better at 4k if the memory bus was higher. This is firmly an 1440p at Ultra setings and will be forever. Yes it can do 4k but not at ultra settings.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

When DLSS 1 launched it was bad. Now DLSS 2.1 looks good.

Sure it won't beat real frames but 6 years down the road it might save a GPU from going to the landfill.

Owen explains it wonderfully. I still rather have this tech(DLSS 3 and FSR 3) than not have it. It might also extend the life a GPU.

While DLSS did indeed suck when it was launched, as a console gamer I have been playing games upscaled for years and figured it would be awesome eventually. This one though there's no way you're making 30 fps feel like 60 fps inserting fake frames to make it look 60 fps.