Question 4070ti vs 7900xt

[Cableman]

It's time for me to upgrade my aging GTX1070 and I am trying to decide between the 4070ti and the 7900xt. The card will be bought through my employer ($900 is my hard limit) so those are my two options. I have a 4k 144hz monitor that I haven't been able to drive properly with the 1070.

I read and watched all the reviews I could find. The cards are basically the same price. The 7900xt beats the 4070ti in raster pretty much in every game. The weakness of the 7900xt seems to be RT, but it doesn't seem to be as bad as I expected. There are even games where it beats the 4070ti even with RT on. The 2 worst cases I saw were Control and Cyberpunk 2077. The one variable I'm not sure about is DLSS vs FSR - do we expect FSR to gain similar traction to DLSS? Is the 7900xt missing any features?

So overall, the two are priced the same (in practice), the 7900xt is faster without RT and just a bit slower with RT on. Is there a reason to consider the 4070ti over the 7900xt?

 

[VirtualLarry]

This one though there's no way you're making 30 fps feel like 60 fps inserting fake frames to make it look 60 fps.

We need a term like "Frame Agency", to describe the ability to control the game / characters per frame. For example, two input cycles per frame, would be a frame agency of 2.0. Ideally, it would be always 1.0 or higher. With DLSS 3.0, it would be 0.5, would it not? (One interpolated frame per actual input/display frame cycle.)

Or is this too simplistic a way to look at it.

 

[Khanan]

I think DLSS3 is for mid range GPU users and lower, you surely don’t need it at 1440p or lower which is probably the typical res of the 4070 Ti. 4090 and 4080 users don’t need it either, there’s so much performance at hand, why would they, or why should they use it.

 

[Heartbreaker]

DLSS is the only upside 4070 Ti has, RT perf is barely better, and everything else a downside. Even the high efficiency of Ada is lost on the 4070 Ti due to stock high clocks that are beyond the sweet spot to try and match 7900XT. A usual praxis

You also get CUDA, Still better media encoding, and $100 lower price, which puts them about equal in raster perf/$.

Considering that NVidia cards usually sell at a premium price over AMDs, this is acutally most even matchup of any AMD NVidia comparison. It's selling at about parity just based on the perf/$ in raster, and you get the NVidia ecosystem advantages as a bonus.

Plus DLSS still has a slight edge ignoring the DLSS 3 fake frame crap, plus any game that only works FRS 2, also works on NVidia, so it benefits from having both systems.

IMO, AMD needs to drop the price of the 7900XT by at least $100 to compete with the 4070 Ti. A card that most here seem to think is a terrible value, so I'm not sure what that makes the 7900XT.

Or as Steve from HWUB said: On that note, the Radeon 7900 series' pricing by AMD was so dumb, they've once again managed to make Nvidia look good.

 

[Cableman]

$100 lower price

That's mostly not the case, though. It's hard to find a 4070ti at $800, it really is at least $840 in most cases. And the 7900xt is currently $880 at BestBuy. That's a $40 price difference. They are basically at price parity (MSRP doesn't matter).

 

[Heartbreaker]

That's mostly not the case, though. It's hard to find a 4070ti at $800, it really is at least $840 in most cases. And the 7900xt is currently $880 at BestBuy. That's a $40 price difference. They are basically at price parity (MSRP doesn't matter).

It's not hard to find one at $800. Forum users have been gleefully pointing out the shelves are full of them(as proof that no one wants them), including the $800 models.

Even Newegg still has $800 stock today.

Are you a human?

www.newegg.com

 

[Khanan]

You also get CUDA, Still better media encoding, and $100 lower price, which puts them about equal in raster perf/$.

AMD has HIP so the upside of CUDA is limited and non existent for gamers anyway.
Better media encoding? Not since months, not since Radeon updated their stuff. Nvidia fans sound like a broken record.

FSR 2 is competitive with DLSS as well. It’s the typical Nvidia Fan arguments here

Also your “arguments” don’t make any sense. Allegedly better stuff you mentioned doesn’t increase performance in raster nor in anything else. The 7900XT will eat the 4070 Ti alive in Raster. With OC the difference will be over 20%, the 7900XT is conservatively clocked while the 4070 Ti is right at the edge.

 

[Heartbreaker]

AMD has HIP so the upside of CUDA is limited and non existent for gamers anyway.
Better media encoding? Not since months, not since Radeon updated their stuff. Nvidia fans sound like a broken record.

FSR 2 is competitive with DLSS as well. It’s the typical Nvidia Fan arguments here

The delta isn't as large as it was before, but NVidia media encoders are still better, and DLSS still has the edge in the HWUB/DF testing, and of course NVidia can run both DLSS and FRS, so that is a very distinct advantage for wider game support.

CUDA, and Machine learning may not matter to you, but it does to others who might be interested in doing more with their cards that just gaming, and again, AMD priced to the point that this is just a free bonus for going NVidia.

Consider that NVidia cards typically outsell AMD significantly when AMD cards have a clear perf/$ advantage.

Here AMD is only running at perf/$ parity, making this their worse matchup in years.

If 4070 Ti is a slow seller at current pricing, 7900 XT is DOA at current pricing.

 

[Khanan]

The delta isn't as large as it was before, but NVidia media encoders are still better,

As a streamer myself I can tell you right now that the difference is so slim I wouldn’t care about it.

Standalone encoding, no streaming, the Nvidia encoder isn’t better at all, I heard quite the opposite actually.

On top, no serious streamer will use GPU encoding forever, it’s a cheaper solution if you have inferior equipment. Nothing Nvidia brings to the table for streamers is really important, as serious streamers aren’t dependent on anything they provide.

Here AMD is only running at perf/$ parity, making this their worse matchup in years.

There’s no “parity” if I can get a way better chip with way more vram for only 100$ more, that’s not how Performance To Price works. And I will be overclocking as well and make that smaller distance a big one. The 4070 Ti overclocks for 5% gain which is in the ballpark of “you can skip that”.

 

[Heartbreaker]

There’s no “parity” if I can get a way better chip with way more vram for only 100$ more, that’s not how Performance To Price works. And I will overclocking as well and make that smaller distance a big one. The 4070 Ti overclocks for 5% gain which is in the ballpark of “you can skip that”.

If overclocking is your defense. You lost, and if you weren't so deeply biased you would know it.

This is first AMD card positioning that I can remember, that didn't clearly beat NVidia in simply perf/$.

You can try to pretend that the NVidia ecosystem advantages don't matter, but what ever reasons you want to come up with, NVidia vastly outsells AMD even when at the typical deficit in perf/$.

How do you think it's going to go at perf/$ parity.

I'm betting AMD drops price $100 soon.

 

[Khanan]

If overclocking is your defense. You lost.

Not really, as my main argument isn’t about overclocking but stock pricing. Easy W

Im not pretending anything. I’m a long time Nvidia user who owned 90-95% Nvidia cards his lifetime. The difference is I’m fair and not a fan, like other people here. My arguments are easy to read and understand, and anyone neutral will get it.

The price to performance of 7900XT is way way better than 4070 Ti as I geta taste of the big chip of AMD vs the midrange chip of Nvidia, a big “no thanks”. Nvidia has 1 interesting card for people without limits and that’s the 4090, on other price points I’d prefer AMD, it’s that easy.

 

[NIGELG]

For someone who hasn't bought a GPU in ten years you really seem to be pushing the Nvidia agenda.

I am a 3070 owner by the way and that card was a great value at MSRP.

The 4070 Ti and the AMD 7900XT are both overpriced for what you get. Most reviewers agree except for the Pro Nvidia ones.

 

[Heartbreaker]

The 4070 Ti and the AMD 7900XT are both overpriced for what you get. Most reviewers agree except for the Pro Nvidia ones.

Overpriced vs what? What people fantasize they should get? They are still better perf/$ than last generation.

I admitted this is a poor generation, like Turing was. But surprise the world doesn't give you what you want.

But in this new generation, head to head comparison I made valid points that haven't been countered.

Please show me the last card that AMD sold perf/$ parity with NVidia.

If the rhetoric on this forum was to be believed, AMD would be selling the majority of GPU cards. Reality is starkly opposite to that.

If AMD is going to sell, it needs to have perf/$ advantage, and the 7900xt doesn't have that.

The 7900XT has another reason beyond NVidia why it's pricing makes no sense: The 7900 XTX.

The XT is only $100 less than the XTX, and has significantly worse perf/$ than the XTX.

You really need biased clouded thinking, to conclude the price for the XT makes any sense.

The XT needs $100 price cut, to compete with the 4070 Ti and to make any sense compared to the XTX.

That's just to fit sensibly into the current generation.

Beyond that you can argue the whole new generation sucks, but sure, just like the Turing generation...

 

[Khanan]

Overpriced vs what? What people fantasize they should get? They are still better perf/$ than last generation.

That’s also a typical Nvidia fan argument. It’s literally 1:1 what Jensen said himself, that prices got higher for whatever bullshit reasons and we have to accept that Moores law is dead. 😂 Well at AMD you still get the big chip for the almost same price and a GPU better than the 4080 for 200$ less. Nvidias bluff has been called

If for Nvidia alone, 4070 would cost 1000$ now and fans would still defend it.
Next Gen 5070 would cost 1200 then. 😂

Man i wish people would stop drinking the coolaid. This will make things worse for all of us.

 

[Heartbreaker]

That’s also a typical Nvidia fan argument. It’s literally 1:1 what Jensen said himself,

If you think prices went up because Jensen's BS reasons, why are AMD's just as bad?

 

[Khanan]

If you think prices went up because Jensen's BS reasons, why are AMD's just as bad?

Bad yes but still a bit better. That they are “just as bad” is not true in my opinion.

 

[kondziowy]

If anyone think that he/she needs 4070Ti, I recommend buying Nintendo Switch and playing 540~720p games. You will find more joy than you had for the last 5 years on PC. And the desire to buy a 4K gaming card will disappear.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Bad yes but still a bit better. That they are “just as bad” is a Nvidia fan cope.

As I pointed out, and you seem to be living in denial of. 7900XT is has equal perf/$ with the 4070 Ti, so yes it's just as bad.

Ranting about other peoples bias while exhibiting your own is a bad look.

 

[Khanan]

If anyone think that he/she needs 4070Ti, I recommend buying Nintendo Switch and playing 540~720p games. You will find more joy than you had for the last 5 years on PC. And the desire to buy a 4K gaming card will disappear.

I’m glad I’m on 1440p and no desire for 4K at all. HDR is great, 4K is unnecessary extra sharpness. Get a monitor for super hdr not for 4K. Also skipping this Gen completely.

Ranting about other peoples bias while exhibiting your own is a bad look.

Not really. I like AMD more but I’m not a AMD user so this will make it even.
- 20 GB vs 12
- High OC vs 5% joke
Are we in an average user forum? Didn’t think so. OC is part of the conversation. Stock pricing the 7900XT is only 5% ahead, advanced user pricing the 7900XT has way more value after OC and the higher vram is useful for various things as well.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Not really. I like AMD more but I’m not a AMD user so this will make it even.

That much is obvious. To the point you can't admit 7900xt is poorly priced both against NVidia competitor and against 7900XTX.

Of the new generation cards. The 7900XTX has the best relative position, while the 7900XT has the worse.

XT really needs $100 price correction, before we get into the can of worms (AKA fantasy) were people think the whole generation needs a 50% price cut.

 

[Khanan]

That much is obvious. To the point you can't admit 7900xt is poorly priced both against NVidia competitor and against 7900XTX.

Of the new generation cards. The 7900XTX has the best relative position, while the 7900XT has the worse.

XT really needs $100 price correction, before we get into the can of worms (AKA fantasy) were people think the whole generation needs a 50% price cut.

Not really, against the XTX yes, against the 4070 Ti not at all, this is the big chip with way higher resources against the mid sized of Nvidia. 😂 I’m done here, my arguments get ignored while people use other things against me. Enjoy your false opinion, bye

Quite obvious I was talking to a fan. He has no business calling me out for anything. I’m trying to be neutral at least.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Not really, against the XTX yes, against the 4070 Ti not at all, this is the big chip with way higher resources against the mid sized of Nvidia.

Why should/would the consumer care about, how big the chip is? The consumer cares about results.

😂 I’m done here, my arguments get ignored while people use other things against me. Enjoy your false opinion, bye

Quite obvious I was talking to a fan. He has no business calling me out for anything. I’m trying to be neutral at least.

LOL! Go look in a mirror.

 

[NIGELG]

Not really, against the XTX yes, against the 4070 Ti not at all, this is the big chip with way higher resources against the mid sized of Nvidia. 😂 I’m done here, my arguments get ignored while people use other things against me. Enjoy your false opinion, bye

Quite obvious I was talking to a fan. He has no business calling me out for anything. I’m trying to be neutral at least.

But he stated in a thread that he hasn't bought a card in 10 years. So maybe the prices don't affect him (It doesn't mean he is not a modern GPU user.).

But he sure seems to be pushing pro Nvidia performance per dollar, Moore's law nonsense. I am always wary of people who defend high unreasonable pricing set by corporations.

It makes me ask the question ''What is their agenda?"

The 33% hike in the MRSP of the ##70Ti is justified by the Pro Nvidia fans. Does that follow inflation, cost of raw materials and marketing or is that just monopolistic greed from Nvidia and desperation by AMD to match prices? I have a 3070 so how much will a 4070/7800XT upgrade cost me?

 

[Khanan]

But he stated in a thread that he hasn't bought a card in 10 years. So maybe the prices don't affect him (It doesn't mean he is not a modern GPU user.).

But he sure seems to be pushing pro Nvidia performance per dollar, Moore's law nonsense. I am always wary of people who defend high unreasonable pricing set by corporations.

It makes me ask the question ''What is their agenda?"

The 33% hike in the MRSP of the ##70Ti is justified by the Pro Nvidia fans. Does that follow inflation, cost of raw materials and marketing or is that just monopolistic greed from Nvidia and desperation by AMD to match prices? I have a 3070 so how much will a 4070/7800XT upgrade cost me?

The pricing of AMD at least remotely makes sense. These 7 chips (MCM) aren’t that cheap to produce, 20-24GB vram isn’t cheap either. It gets compared to a ridiculous and small x70 sku and then called “overpriced” despite being way better if you tune it. Of course they want you to buy the XTX and you can for just 100 more, the x70 is factually competing with both if you can get the XTX for msrp. Nvidias trying to pull an Apple but the difference is Nvidia ain’t special. I can easily replace my 2080 Ti with a XTX I won’t miss anything, not quite true for my phone

And yea if I didn’t say it yet, Nvidia fans are beyond reasonable, doesn’t really matter what you say. Some of them will also pretend that they are neutral, but the bias is there. It’s either that or Anti-AMD hating, AMD has to be the “cheap company” sell their high end sku for 800$ despite it being clearly clearly better. 😂

Business tips like those from unreasonable people would put AMD quickly out of business or where they started 10 years ago and more. Low prices and negligible margins. This then means AMD would lose so much money they could as well exit the GPU business? That’s what you want fans? Then Nvidia will Price the x90 at 3000$ next and the mid range gpu at 1500$. 100% . And we are forced to buy low end stuff then, for 500$. 😂 Fans.

Next after that then PC is (ironically) back to being ultra niche (or dead) and I’m back to being a consolero after over 20 years. Bet on it. Nvidia doesn’t give a f. They will bleed it dry

 

[Heartbreaker]

But he sure seems to be pushing pro Nvidia performance per dollar, Moore's law nonsense. I am always wary of people who defend high unreasonable pricing set by corporations.

How is talking about perf/$, pro NVidia, when NVidia almost always loses that comparison?

For once AMD doesn't clearly win that comparison, and it's biased to point it out? Really that only points to bias on your side.

AMD and NVida have broadly similar pricing in this new generation. Any defense or attack on this generations pricing isn't biased against one company or the other, it applies to both.

The real bias in this thread is the inability to admit AMD priced the 7900XT poorly relative to other cards of this generation (without getting into the pricing of the whole generation from both companies).

 

[NIGELG]

How is talking about perf/$, pro NVidia, when NVidia almost always loses that comparison?

For once AMD doesn't clearly win that comparison, and it's biased to point it out? Really that only points to bias on your side.

AMD and NVida have broadly similar pricing in this new generation. Any defense or attack on this generations pricing isn't biased against one company or the other, it applies to both.

The real bias in this thread is the inability to admit AMD priced the 7900XT poorly relative to other cards of this generation (without getting into the pricing of the whole generation from both companies).

I have posted that BOTH AMD and Nvidia's prices suck in this generation where mining is no longer a factor.