420 music :)

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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,112
30,500
136
Wow....just wow.

Are you preparing your kids for jobs which will ask them if they have ever tried any illegal substances?

Are you ok with just deciding laws because you think you are doing it better than many out there?

Holy fuck at stoner mentality.

And you give me hard times because I just like women and cars.
I'm with you Alky, I prefer to get hammered and beat the shit out of my step-children. :thumbsup:
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
hard to do research when the drug in question is classified as sch 1.

Agree, there is no way in hell pot should be a sch 1, implying it's more dangerous than heroin or meth is laughable and sadly many a tax dollar is wasted keeping convicted pot users in jail..
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
I'm actually fairly tied to California's medical marijuana program and I know children that use marijuana every day. It's legal too. Blows your mind huh? Edible marijuana has been shown to reduce or even completely stop certain kinds of seizures. As research progresses and legalization continues marijuana and it's drugs(thc and cbd) will be the number one most prescribed medicine in America, outside of maybe antibiotics, for good reason. If you have any other questions that don't involve the word "bro" or "jelly" you can PM me and I will do my best to answer you thoughtfully and truthfully.

People use Oxycodone legally everyday too.
 

BudAshes

Lifer
Jul 20, 2003
13,934
3,229
146
People use Oxycodone legally everyday too.

Yes this is an excellent point alky. Many people using Oxycodone should really be using marijuana instead. It is much less addictive and the side effects for long term use are much more palatable.
 

Wyndru

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2009
7,318
4
76
I'm actually fairly tied to California's medical marijuana program and I know children that use marijuana every day. It's legal too. Blows your mind huh? Edible marijuana has been shown to reduce or even completely stop certain kinds of seizures. As research progresses and legalization continues marijuana and it's drugs(thc and cbd) will be the number one most prescribed medicine in America, outside of maybe antibiotics, for good reason. If you have any other questions that don't involve the word "bro" or "jelly" you can PM me and I will do my best to answer you thoughtfully and truthfully.

I always thought marijuana was proven to stunt mental (social) development in young adults.

I'm not doubting you, I just thought that most in the medical field agreed that it wasn't safe for consumption until adulthood. Has this changed recently?
 

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,721
3,128
136
Mellow-
Weird-

Triple Mania II - Crash Worship

whoa, not often you come across someone familiar with Crash Worship. to this day they are still the greatest live show i have ever seen, fortunately twice before they broke up.

thanks for stirring up those memories.
 

BudAshes

Lifer
Jul 20, 2003
13,934
3,229
146
I always thought marijuana was proven to stunt mental (social) development in young adults.

I'm not doubting you, I just thought that most in the medical field agreed that it wasn't safe for consumption until adulthood. Has this changed recently?

It's all a matter of risk management. Obviously you shouldn't give your children any drugs unless absolutely necessary. I didn't use marijuana until I was an adult and I would never recommend anyone that has not fully matured using it unless there is a great need. For example there is a child who is 9 years old that can't go through a day without having several seizures. He went on the normal medications and most didn't work and others completely ruined his life. He now eats a marijuana brownie twice a day and can go to school and do normal kid things without suffering seizures. Could there be side effects? No doubt, but no matter what drug he is put on there are side effects and at least this way he gets a childhood that would otherwise be robbed from him.
 

mnewsham

Lifer
Oct 2, 2010
14,539
428
136
I always thought marijuana was proven to stunt mental (social) development in young adults.

I'm not doubting you, I just thought that most in the medical field agreed that it wasn't safe for consumption until adulthood. Has this changed recently?

actually its only recently that has been shown to possibly be true, I believe it was last year when a study came out showing that prolonged use during the 12-17 year old age group showed an average decrease of 5-10IQ points compared to non pot smokers later in life.

I am trying to find the study, but cant seem to locate it right now using my poor googlefu.
 

SphinxnihpS

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2005
8,368
25
91
whoa, not often you come across someone familiar with Crash Worship. to this day they are still the greatest live show i have ever seen, fortunately twice before they broke up.

thanks for stirring up those memories.

I saw them one time at The Empty Bottle in Chicago. The owner had several special rules for them.

1. No setting the building on fire.
2. No setting their equipment on fire.
3. No setting themselves on fire.
4. No setting the audience on fire.
5. No live animals.

I think I still have a few patches of skin where the powdered sugar/blood/confetti/goo has never washed off.D::awe:

Definitely one of the more exhilarating and viscerally sensual shows I have ever seen. Would definitely hang out with those guys.

btw, you're the first person I have met online that will admit to this knowledge.
 
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destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
actually its only recently that has been shown to possibly be true, I believe it was last year when a study came out showing that prolonged use during the 12-17 year old age group showed an average decrease of 5-10IQ points compared to non pot smokers later in life.

I am trying to find the study, but cant seem to locate it right now using my poor googlefu.

The IQ decrease may or may not be the only impact on youth; if there is any other impact, it's also stunted growth in the prefrontal cortex. The prefrontal cortex typically doesn't even finish developing until the mid 20s, and it's possible it's final "shape" and function is impacted by frequent marijuana consumption in important growing years.

Which is also roughly the same age group you mentioned.

In case anyone isn't aware: the prefrontal cortex is the last section of the brain to reach full maturity. Most importantly, it's the "decision-making center".


I absolutely believe marijuana should be legalized. However, I have also come to the conclusion that it should come with an age stipulation. I haven't decided which age is more appropriate, 18 like tobacco, or 21 like alcohol.
 
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mnewsham

Lifer
Oct 2, 2010
14,539
428
136
The IQ decrease may or may not be the only impact on youth; if there is any other impact, it's also stunted growth in the prefrontal cortex. The prefrontal cortex typically doesn't even finish developing until the mid 20s, and it's possible it's final "shape" and function is impacted by frequent marijuana consumption in important growing years.

Which is also roughly the same age group you mentioned.

In case anyone isn't aware: the prefrontal cortex is the last section of the brain to reach full maturity. Most importantly, it's the "decision-making center".

links to studies showing this connection, everything i have seen warns about under 18 use, and several studies showed no change for users starting at 20 vs 30 in long term use.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
links to studies showing this connection, everything i have seen warns about under 18 use, and several studies showed no change for users starting at 20 vs 30 in long term use.

only a stoner would think kids and drugs mix.
 

Wyndru

Diamond Member
Apr 9, 2009
7,318
4
76
actually its only recently that has been shown to possibly be true, I believe it was last year when a study came out showing that prolonged use during the 12-17 year old age group showed an average decrease of 5-10IQ points compared to non pot smokers later in life.

I am trying to find the study, but cant seem to locate it right now using my poor googlefu.

That's strange, my wife said this was something discussed in her adolescent psychology courses in college 10 years ago. Maybe it was just theory at that time and not proven.
 

mnewsham

Lifer
Oct 2, 2010
14,539
428
136
That's strange, my wife said this was something discussed in her adolescent psychology courses in college 10 years ago. Maybe it was just theory at that time and not proven.

Yeah they have been saying it for years, but they finally got a little bit of a real connection just in the past year or two. Still, 5-10 IQ points is still small enough of a difference to not really matter in the end, but I still refuse to smoke with people under 18 for that reason.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
126
only a stoner would think kids and drugs mix.

IIRC, you don't have kids.
But would you drink in front of them? Feel like you had your life ruined by parents drinking in front of you? Perhaps even including you in drinking once you got older?
Other parents drinking around/with their children?


What makes everything kind of worse is a sort of closeted approach. Go hide and smoke, then play with kids. It's depressing, really.
But most people have no qualms about having a few drinks while watching TV and/or playing with the kids. Equally depressing, however, would be to go hide and slam a few shots from a flask and then returning to play with the kids.
Part of the whole experience with children is demonstrating acceptable and appropriate behavior. They can also read between the lines and also see when lines have been crossed (as they get a little older). They'll see when a few drinks/tokes is fine, but all of a sudden when Dad is sloshed/stoned and creating a negative impression, it's remembered as a positive learning experience (a negative experience), a lesson learned.


links to studies showing this connection, everything i have seen warns about under 18 use, and several studies showed no change for users starting at 20 vs 30 in long term use.

If you are seriously interested in it, google: prefrontal cortex youth adolescent marijuana impact effect

That should point you in decent direction toward some study/research data.
I just don't have the time at this moment to actually take a stroll through the internet looking for the full study data (I might be able to access jstor, might, and could copy some articles if they exist - otherwise, some study data might be available). I hate linking to articles that merely quote/reference study data, I prefer the actual peer-reviewed data.

I didn't want to leave you hanging on that front before I made another post.

I don't feel it makes a case against legal marijuana in the slightest, but it does add further conviction to a point regarding limited access to youth (perhaps prescription-only for those under 21 or 18, legally available at the tobacco counter or in the pharmacy after that?)

The point of that data I am discussing might actually be the cause for any degrade in IQ points compared to the baseline. What I've read discusses lowered attention span, heightened impulsiveness, etc; essentially, hallmark problems that typically result in lower intelligence due to worse performance on the education front. Which would be among the many possible implications of a degradation, if you will, of the prefrontal cortex. Really, it just "grows wrong", it "maladapts" ... they are finding the teenage/youth brain isn't as resilient as once thought. It adapts, and can recover, but with frequent/persistent use, it can also adapt "wrong", or in other words it maladapts. They are seeing the same thing with prescription amphetamines for ADD/ADHD - the brain is actually adapting, but with an outcome nobody is really looking for as an ideal adaptation.

In short, we do need to be careful about what chemicals the youth ingest, and it's a good idea to keep the message out there, but dressed up better than the DARE-type message.
But that shouldn't have an impact on what adults consume. Broad research now concludes the "keep it out of the hands of children" approach is actually best for many things, but it also demonstrates that such restrictions on adults are rather pointless, or should be kept the way they are today (depending on the specific item of discussion).
 
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