4770k or 3930k

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Face2Face

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2001
4,100
215
106
I'm sorry, I don't want to appear pedantic, but:

1) He's using SSAO
2) He didn't get into a big firefight in a demanding story mission or in a Trial of the Rakyat with 10+ enemies on screen, everything burning down and explosions.

Your video doesn't prove much. I get almost double those FPS with my system in those condition. That's not what I'm debating.

No worries, still just puzzled. Well I guess you will see when you get the 2011 setup. I hope you see some improvements.
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,582
2,150
146
It would be interesting to baseline a 2600K with some new games (to keep within the SB IPC), then pit that result vs LGA 2011 i7-3820 & 3930K to see if it is the improved memory and PCIe bandwidth of LGA 2011 that bring the most to the table, or if it is purely the two extra cores. It's probably already been done somewhere.
 

RUN4Y0URL1F3

Member
Jan 16, 2013
61
0
0
It would be interesting to baseline a 2600K with some new games (to keep within the SB IPC), then pit that result vs LGA 2011 i7-3820 & 3930K to see if it is the improved memory and PCIe bandwidth of LGA 2011 that bring the most to the table, or if it is purely the two extra cores. It's probably already been done somewhere.

Moonbogg can probably help with that...
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,582
2,150
146
I haven't run across any platform comparisons using Titan SLI. With Tri-SLI, the need for X79 is obvious, but so far it seems the thinking is the 2 Titans are not going to saturate the bus on a 1155 system. These tests were performed with a quad core 3820 X79 system and display fairly good consistent results, which makes me think the extra memory channels and PCIe lanes are helping performance, but obviously two puzzle pieces are missing.
 

RUN4Y0URL1F3

Member
Jan 16, 2013
61
0
0
I haven't run across any platform comparisons using Titan SLI. With Tri-SLI, the need for X79 is obvious, but so far it seems the thinking is the 2 Titans are not going to saturate the bus on a 1155 system. These tests were performed with a quad core 3820 X79 system and display fairly good consistent results, which makes me think the extra memory channels and PCIe lanes are helping performance, but obviously two puzzle pieces are missing.

Wandering in the jungle I can get around 100 FPS with my TITANs using a Z77. What worries me are the minimum FPS, which are not taken into account by many reviewers. I easily go in the 50s in huge firefights during the story missions. I'd also like to know what part of the game was actually tested in the review.
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
Wandering in the jungle I can get around 100 FPS with my TITANs using a Z77. What worries me are the minimum FPS, which are not taken into account by many reviewers. I easily go in the 50s in huge firefights during the story missions. I'd also like to know what part of the game was actually tested in the review.

....do you not read reviews like those on HardOCP?
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,684
5,420
136
If you're looking down the road, I think that you have to consider how the PS4 and xbox one will influence the need of more cores. If the games made for those will benefit from hyper threading and more cores.
 

BrightCandle

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
4,762
0
76
There are two clear trends which are hard to ignore.

On the one hand Intel is pushing further and further IPC improvements in their cores and SB to haswell is a notable increase even if its not dramatically better. They are pushing IPC for a reason, most software isn't really benefiting from many cores and the reason is its hard/impossible to multithread the software and show performance improvements.

The second trend is this year a lot of games have been showing marked improvements in mutlithread performance. The 3930k all of last year was almost always slower than a 2600k (let alone the 3770k) because it was down on clock speed and yet this year its showing slightly higher performance in the grand majority of games.

We are moving past 4 cores now, but the gains are normally pretty moderate so far. Investing in an old technology for the future seems odd but of the two choices SB-E is still the more forward looking with its increased memory bandwidth and 6 cores. If they were the same price it wouldn't be an easy decision, but because SB-E is still really expensive I would choose a 4770k today.
 

RUN4Y0URL1F3

Member
Jan 16, 2013
61
0
0
....do you not read reviews like those on HardOCP?

I do. That's why I said "many reviewers" and not "all reviewers".
However, I find HardOCP reviews a bit limited in a sense that they don't test a wide array of GPUs in game reviews. Not as wide as other reviews at least.
 

wand3r3r

Diamond Member
May 16, 2008
3,180
0
0
There are two clear trends which are hard to ignore.

On the one hand Intel is pushing further and further IPC improvements in their cores and SB to haswell is a notable increase even if its not dramatically better. They are pushing IPC for a reason, most software isn't really benefiting from many cores and the reason is its hard/impossible to multithread the software and show performance improvements.

The second trend is this year a lot of games have been showing marked improvements in mutlithread performance. The 3930k all of last year was almost always slower than a 2600k (let alone the 3770k) because it was down on clock speed and yet this year its showing slightly higher performance in the grand majority of games.

We are moving past 4 cores now, but the gains are normally pretty moderate so far. Investing in an old technology for the future seems odd but of the two choices SB-E is still the more forward looking with its increased memory bandwidth and 6 cores. If they were the same price it wouldn't be an easy decision, but because SB-E is still really expensive I would choose a 4770k today.

+1

Very good points. I think multithreading may just start to "become standard" with the new consoles.

Whether it will be at launch, or in a year or possibly 2 before they can start to squeeze out all of the performance possible remains to be seen.
 

RUN4Y0URL1F3

Member
Jan 16, 2013
61
0
0
There are two clear trends which are hard to ignore.

On the one hand Intel is pushing further and further IPC improvements in their cores and SB to haswell is a notable increase even if its not dramatically better. They are pushing IPC for a reason, most software isn't really benefiting from many cores and the reason is its hard/impossible to multithread the software and show performance improvements.

The second trend is this year a lot of games have been showing marked improvements in mutlithread performance. The 3930k all of last year was almost always slower than a 2600k (let alone the 3770k) because it was down on clock speed and yet this year its showing slightly higher performance in the grand majority of games.

We are moving past 4 cores now, but the gains are normally pretty moderate so far. Investing in an old technology for the future seems odd but of the two choices SB-E is still the more forward looking with its increased memory bandwidth and 6 cores. If they were the same price it wouldn't be an easy decision, but because SB-E is still really expensive I would choose a 4770k today.

I agree.
 

Dave3000

Golden Member
Jan 10, 2011
1,391
93
91
There are two clear trends which are hard to ignore.

On the one hand Intel is pushing further and further IPC improvements in their cores and SB to haswell is a notable increase even if its not dramatically better. They are pushing IPC for a reason, most software isn't really benefiting from many cores and the reason is its hard/impossible to multithread the software and show performance improvements.

The second trend is this year a lot of games have been showing marked improvements in mutlithread performance. The 3930k all of last year was almost always slower than a 2600k (let alone the 3770k) because it was down on clock speed and yet this year its showing slightly higher performance in the grand majority of games.

We are moving past 4 cores now, but the gains are normally pretty moderate so far. Investing in an old technology for the future seems odd but of the two choices SB-E is still the more forward looking with its increased memory bandwidth and 6 cores. If they were the same price it wouldn't be an easy decision, but because SB-E is still really expensive I would choose a 4770k today.

I don't agree that the 3930k is almost always slower than a 2600k last year, unless they were benchmarking without turbo boost turned on. A 2600k should be around the performance of a 3930k on apps utilizing up to 4 cores and the 3930k should beat the 2600k by a good amount on apps that utilize more than 4 cores if turbo boost is enabled on both chips. Maybe the review you saw that the 3930k was almost always slower than the 2600k, turbo boost was disabled on both chips during testing, so yes I could see how the 2600k would beat the 3930k on apps that were using 4 cores or less if that were the case as the 3930k has a base clock of 3.2GHz and the 2600k has a base clock of 3.4GHz.
 

RUN4Y0URL1F3

Member
Jan 16, 2013
61
0
0
I switched from 3770k to 3930k. No changes whatsoever in games like Far Cry 3 and Hitman Absolution. I'm extremely disappointed.
 

WhoBeDaPlaya

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2000
7,413
401
126
4770K is just waaay too cheap to ignore.
My decision was a little more difficult due to scoring a 980X on Craigslist for < $200 (drop-in upgrade on the 1366 would be nice). Sold it on eBay instead for mucho $$$ and got a free 4770K setup instead
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
20,894
3,247
126
i got laughed at when trying to compare my gulftown to a 4770...
everyone was saying its not the same class... yada yada yada...

you really wanna compare a 3930 to a 4770? :X

anyhow the 4930 is coming soon...
That should be comparable to the 3930.
 
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tweakboy

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2010
9,517
2
81
www.hammiestudios.com
I know for DAW. Sonar X2 shows you up top how usage is on each core, it would love 2 more cores and 4 extra threads. The 3820 I have now is crunching thru Sonar ,, I havent even seen 20 percent CPU usage yet on a project...... Anyhow so I knew about Ivy E and how my mobo would support thru bios. I got that BIOS upgrade from ASUS that makes it compatible with Ivy E. So ya with 2011 you need a bios update and can you sexy 6 core 12threads 22nm Ivy... Ill be set for 10 years at least ,,, come on now!!!!!!!
 

RUN4Y0URL1F3

Member
Jan 16, 2013
61
0
0
So you're still getting dips in GPU utilization? Is your setup running in PCIe 3?

I'm running PCI-E 3. In Far Cry 3 as soon as there is some action GPU usage goes down to 40-50% and FPS are in the 50s. If I activate MSAA 8x GPU usage goes at 70% and FPS stay the same!
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,637
3,095
136
I'm running PCI-E 3. In Far Cry 3 as soon as there is some action GPU usage goes down to 40-50% and FPS are in the 50s. If I activate MSAA 8x GPU usage goes at 70% and FPS stay the same!

Sorry to hear that. I had the same disappointment. There is a benefit to having a lot of GPU overhead though. When a lot of stuff happens on screen, the GPUs load up and FPS stays constant. If your GPUs were maxed out, then you would see FPS drop. Its a poor consolation, I know. But at least its one way to look on the bright side.
If you switched to Haswell, you would see maybe a 10fps increase if you are dipping to 50 now. So you would dip to 60. That's not very exciting and not enough for me to tear my rig apart. As mentioned before, to fix your bottleneck, you would need about 50% more CPU performance at the least. That's not going to happen my friend, so acceptance is the key to being happy with your CPU. Its basically the best you can do right now. You can clock the crap out of it, but even then its just not enough.
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,582
2,150
146
I'm running PCI-E 3. In Far Cry 3 as soon as there is some action GPU usage goes down to 40-50% and FPS are in the 50s. If I activate MSAA 8x GPU usage goes at 70% and FPS stay the same!

I'd sure love to see you CPU utilization graph during the slowdowns you describe. Sounds like Far Cry 3 is not using the extra cores.
 
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