48÷2(9+3) =

[airdata]

so, is it safe to tell all the people who have insulted me and the other 2 voters to go (@*#&$ (@*&#$)(#*? or should I wait a little longer?

 

[Dr. Zaus]

because it is easier. At first glance it looks like an easy problem with an answer of 2. But once you start to really look at it, it becomes clear you can't just group it all together and divide by 24.

How the fuck is order of operations something you need to "really look at"?!

 

[Schfifty Five]

How the fuck is order of operations something you need to "really look at"?!

lol it's hilarious how worked up some people get.

Look, it's not really an order of operations issue. I think most people here (even those who answered 2) understand and know the order of operations.

However, when looking at that expression which is ambiguous and poorly written, it's very easy to group the 48 as the numerator term and the 2(9+3) as the denominator term resulting in the answer of 2.

 

[actuarial]

How the fuck is order of operations something you need to "really look at"?!

Like Dr. Pizza's example, nearly no one would conclude that:

4x²/2x = 2x³

Which is the correct answer under order of operations, and the exact same as this example.

 

[James3shin]

Multiplication does NOT have precedence over division. Use LEFT to RIGHT. Brackets are the only thing that takes precedence in this instance.

1. (9+3) = 12

Now since multiplication and division are within the same problem we must use LEFT to RIGHT because neither takes precedence over the other.

2. 48÷2 = 24

3 24(12) = 288

Works EVERY TIME without fail. Unlike PEMDAS.

 

[James3shin]

Like Dr. Pizza's example, nearly no one would conclude that:

4x²/2x = 2x³

Which is the correct answer under order of operations, and the exact same as this example.

This is not comparable because 4x² and 2x are functions. Dividing a function by another function would yield a new function, NOT a finite value.

f(x)/g(x) = f/g(x)

 

[HumblePie]

This is not comparable because 4x² and 2x are functions. Dividing a function by another function would yield a new function, NOT a finite value.

f(x)/g(x) = f/g(x)

Correct and functions are single terms. You treat the 2x not as 2*x because X isn't a number. So 2x is a single term as a function. That's why using algebra in this case can't be used as a proof.

Not to mention you can't substitute an equation for a parenthetical notation. Another math fallacy that Dr Pizza used. On top of that, you never write inline algebraic notations in the first place. you don't do a/bc. You do

a
---
bc


or

a
-- c
b


If you write an algebraic inline notation you have to use parens to combine terms for association. If you want to multiply b and c first then you have to write a/(bc) for it to be inline term that multiples b and c first. Otherwise it is treated as a/b*c. And you do standard order of operations.

And just for giggles you can try putting

3 / 2π

into wolframalpha and you will see what I just said.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=3%2F2π

 

[James3shin]

Correct and functions are single terms. You treat the 2x not as 2*x because X isn't a number. So 2x is a single term as a function. That's why using algebra in this case can't be used as a proof.

Not to mention you can't substitute an equation for a parenthetical notation. Another math fallacy that Dr Pizza used.

Well said! I have not seen Dr. Pizza's original example so I can't comment on it, but that
4x²/2x = 2x³ analogy was wrong.

 

[LoluMad]

Saw this link from a 'rival' technology forum and I am now convinced that out of all technology forums, AnandTech either has the most trolls, or is the worst at math. Congrats!

For the problem in question, I'll rewrite it to make solving it simplier:
48/2(9+3) = 48 / 2 * (9+3)

2(2) is the exact same as 2 * 2. Apparently this is pretty complex concept, but its how math works.

Now that the problem has been rewritten so it is easier to understand (not that it was hard to understand in the first place), you apply order of operations, with is the following: Inside parentesis, exponents, multiplication and division (both have the same precedence), addition and subtraction (both have the same precedence).

So you get the following:

48 / 2 * (9+3) = 48 / 2 * 12

Now here comes the really complicated part. WTF do I do if there is both multiplication and division? They are the same precedence so which comes first? The answer is the one that comes first from left to right. Pretty mind blowingly complex but somehow young kids are able to figure it out.

So you end up with the following:

48 / 2 * 12 = 24 * 12

Now there is just multiplication left so you get the following:

24 * 12 = 288

Also, if the parenthesis confuse you and order of operations is too hard to understand, you could always convert the problem from infix notation to postfix notation where remembering order of operations isn't necessary. This would result in the following:

1. 48 2 / 9 3 + *
2. 24 9 3 + *
3. 24 12 *
4. 288

I know its crazy that this turns into 288 as well but math is consistent like that.

If you still don't believe that the answer is 288, try creating a program to test it out for you. Compilers use the proper order of operations. Test out the following code:

[SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]#include[/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#a31515][SIZE=2][COLOR=#a31515]<iostream>[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]using[/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]namespace[/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2] std;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]int[/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2] main()[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]{[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]cout << 48/2*(9+3);[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]return[/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2] 0;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]}[/SIZE]

I know this is crazy and complex, but that c++ code outputs 288.

I hope your minds are blown and you all now understand pretty basic mathematical concepts. If you don't, then don't comment on something that you know nothing about as it just makes you look like an idiot.

 

[SandEagle]

Saw this link from a 'rival' technology forum and I am now convinced that out of all technology forums, AnandTech either has the most trolls, or is the worst at math. Congrats!

For the problem in question, I'll rewrite it to make solving it simplier:
48/2(9+3) = 48 / 2 * (9+3)

2(2) is the exact same as 2 * 2. Apparently this is pretty complex concept, but its how math works.

Now that the problem has been rewritten so it is easier to understand (not that it was hard to understand in the first place), you apply order of operations, with is the following: Inside parentesis, exponents, multiplication and division (both have the same precedence), addition and subtraction (both have the same precedence).

So you get the following:

48 / 2 * (9+3) = 48 / 2 * 12

Now here comes the really complicated part. WTF do I do if there is both multiplication and division? They are the same precedence so which comes first? The answer is the one that comes first from left to right. Pretty mind blowingly complex but somehow young kids are able to figure it out.

So you end up with the following:

48 / 2 * 12 = 24 * 12

Now there is just multiplication left so you get the following:

24 * 12 = 288

Also, if the parenthesis confuse you and order of operations is too hard to understand, you could always convert the problem from infix notation to postfix notation where remembering order of operations isn't necessary. This would result in the following:

1. 48 2 / 9 3 + *
2. 24 9 3 + *
3. 24 12 *
4. 288

I know its crazy that this turns into 288 as well but math is consistent like that.

If you still don't believe that the answer is 288, try creating a program to test it out for you. Compilers use the proper order of operations. Test out the following code:

[SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]#include[/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#a31515][SIZE=2][COLOR=#a31515]<iostream>[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]using[/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]namespace[/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2] std;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]int[/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2] main()[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]{[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]cout << 48/2*(9+3);[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]return[/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2] 0;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]}[/SIZE]

I know this is crazy and complex, but that c++ code outputs 288.

I hope your minds are blown and you all now understand pretty basic mathematical concepts. If you don't, then don't comment on something that you know nothing about as it just makes you look like an idiot.

lol, u mad? nice first post though

 

[LoluMad]

lol, u mad? nice first post though

Thanks qt!

And no, I'm not mad at all

 

[busydude]

For the problem in question, I'll rewrite it to make solving it simplier: 48/2(9+3) = 48 / 2 * (9+3)

LOL.. that is the **ONLY** part that's causing the confusion.

 

[dighn]

12 pages? seriously? I thought atot was better than this.

 

[LoluMad]

LOL.. that is the **ONLY** part that's causing the confusion.

No, everyone should know that 2(2) = 2 * 2. The only part that is causing confusion is that no one knows what to do when you have to multiply and divide. The stupid PEMDAS 'tricks' people into thinking that multiplication (M) comes before division (D) but they actually share the same level of precedence. Multiplication and division are one in the same, just like addition and subtraction are the same. I.E. subtration is just adding a negative number 2-2 = 2 + (-2), and division is just inverse multiplication. 9 / 3 = 9 * (1/3).

 

[busydude]

No, everyone should know that 2(2) = 2 * 2. The only part that is causing confusion is that no one knows what to do when you have to multiply and divide. The stupid PEMDAS 'tricks' people into thinking that multiplication (M) comes before division (D) but they actually share the same level of precedence. Multiplication and division are one in the same, just like addition and subtraction are the same. I.E. subtration is just adding a negative number 2-2 = 2 + (-2), and division is just inverse multiplication. 9 / 3 = 9 * (1/3).

Duh.. I voted for 288, and I think that is the right answer if we assume 2(2) = 2*2. I know what you are trying to explain though, and yeah that has caused a lot of confusion.

 

[LoluMad]

Duh.. I voted for 288, and I think that is the right answer if we assume 2(2) = 2*2. I know what you are trying to explain though, and yeah that has caused a lot of confusion.

There is no assumption necessary. You don't assume 2(2) = 2 * 2. 2(2) most definitely IS 2 * 2. Math is not ambiguous.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

I once carefully pointed out how fucking wrong over half of this fucking board is about this fucking subject to my motherfucking shithead professor; making him look like a stupid sack of shit that didn't know crap about the statistics he was trying to teach.

... He didn't appreciate it and got me booted from my Ph.D. program because of it.


In retrospect, i'm happy to submit to all sorts of poor math, hell i'll say the sun doesn't shine and the moon is made of cheese at the new program I'm starting: just give me the fucking degree.

Sometimes you have to give up on fighting for what's right so that you can keep from having the liars and idiots murder you.

Also: math is not a fucking democracy!

 

[Locut0s]

I once carefully pointed out how fucking wrong over half of this fucking board is about this fucking subject to my motherfucking shithead professor; making him look like a stupid sack of shit that didn't know crap about the statistics he was trying to teach.

... He didn't appreciate it and got me booted from my Ph.D. program because of it.


In retrospect, i'm happy to submit to all sorts of poor math, hell i'll say the sun doesn't shine and the moon is made of cheese at the new program I'm starting: just give me the fucking degree.

Sometimes you have to give up on fighting for what's right so that you can keep from having the liars and idiots murder you.

Also: math is not a fucking democracy!

Actually SOME of math IS a democracy. The parts of math that are a democracy are those parts where something is done by convention where there are two possible methods of interpreting a statement. Interpretation A leads to one answer and B leads to a different one. There is nothing right or wrong, logical or illogical about A or B we just need to chose one or the other. Sometimes neither one is codified in stone as the correct interpretation.

 

[Schfifty Five]

There is no assumption necessary. You don't assume 2(2) = 2 * 2. 2(2) most definitely IS 2 * 2. Math is not ambiguous.

Order of operations isn't the problem here.

The confusion likes with 2(9+3) and how it is seen by some as a single term in which case results in the answer 2. If you don't consider it as a single term, then the answer of 288 is pretty simple.

 

[Locut0s]

Order of operations isn't the problem here.

The confusion likes with 2(9+3) and how it is seen by some as a single term in which case results in the answer 2. If you don't consider it as a single term, then the answer of 288 is pretty simple.

And there are no hard rules in math that say this should or should not be seen as a single term.

 

[SSSnail]

so, is it safe to tell all the people who have insulted me and the other 2 voters to go (@*#&$ (@*&#$)(#*? or should I wait a little longer?

You'll be waiting for a pretty damn long time, I think pretty much until stupid people abolish the current mathematical rules and operators and create their own by feelings and what they think is right. Because you know, what they think is always right.

 

[Locut0s]

You'll be waiting for a pretty damn long time, I think pretty much until stupid people abolish the current mathematical rules and operators and create their own by feelings and what they think is right. Because you know, what they think is always right.

The thing is that there isn't a HARD rule in math about whether to treat 2(9+3) as one term or not. Even math profs are not in 100% agreement whether to treat this as one term or not 100% of the time.

 

[Kev]

What's even more interesting than the interpretation of whether the expression is right or wrong is how vitriolic some of you nerds are about a math problem. I can only imagine what types of social failures some of you are in real life.

 

[SP33Demon]

Saw this link from a 'rival' technology forum and I am now convinced that out of all technology forums, AnandTech either has the most trolls, or is the worst at math. Congrats!

For the problem in question, I'll rewrite it to make solving it simplier:
48/2(9+3) = 48 / 2 * (9+3)

2(2) is the exact same as 2 * 2. Apparently this is pretty complex concept, but its how math works.

Now that the problem has been rewritten so it is easier to understand (not that it was hard to understand in the first place), you apply order of operations, with is the following: Inside parentesis, exponents, multiplication and division (both have the same precedence), addition and subtraction (both have the same precedence).

So you get the following:

48 / 2 * (9+3) = 48 / 2 * 12

Now here comes the really complicated part. WTF do I do if there is both multiplication and division? They are the same precedence so which comes first? The answer is the one that comes first from left to right. Pretty mind blowingly complex but somehow young kids are able to figure it out.

So you end up with the following:

48 / 2 * 12 = 24 * 12

Now there is just multiplication left so you get the following:

24 * 12 = 288

Also, if the parenthesis confuse you and order of operations is too hard to understand, you could always convert the problem from infix notation to postfix notation where remembering order of operations isn't necessary. This would result in the following:

1. 48 2 / 9 3 + *
2. 24 9 3 + *
3. 24 12 *
4. 288

I know its crazy that this turns into 288 as well but math is consistent like that.

If you still don't believe that the answer is 288, try creating a program to test it out for you. Compilers use the proper order of operations. Test out the following code:

[SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]#include[/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#a31515][SIZE=2][COLOR=#a31515]<iostream>[/COLOR][/SIZE]
[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]using[/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]namespace[/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2] std;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]int[/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2] main()[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]{[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]cout << 48/2*(9+3);[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]return[/COLOR][/SIZE][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2] 0;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]}[/SIZE]

I know this is crazy and complex, but that c++ code outputs 288.

I hope your minds are blown and you all now understand pretty basic mathematical concepts. If you don't, then don't comment on something that you know nothing about as it just makes you look like an idiot.

Excellent first post.

 

[infoiltrator]

Drat all Batty math geeks issue is make it unambiguous for people not using math for years. Playtime!
Ask "What is the significance of power rating (watts) on audio speakers?"
Ask " Are people who use offensive language in public (written or spoken) resentful of being classified as dumb or socially unskilled? language impaired?"