480 GTX: 275 watt TDP?

[BenSkywalker]

Because Fermi is normal in terms of high expense, power consumption, and manufacturing difficulty with what is a regular day for Nvidia

It falls pretty much perfectly in line, yes. If the 275W TDP is the actual final number it will be the second most power hungry card from nV and third most when you factor in ATi. Its' manufacturing issues are not out of place at all given their move to a new build process- look at the timeframe between 4770 ramping and when- at some point in the future- they can produce and sell parts at their launch MSRP in terms of the 58xx series. Manufacturing difficulty again if everything we hear is accurate nV will be shipping A3 spins to retail, that isn't out of line for them. Outside of them launching later then the competition, everything else seems to be in place for a normal nV launch. Obviously we have to wait to see performance numbers, but all else checks out(btw- based on their financials they have spent less getting Fermi into production then they did G80, G92 or G200).

Fermi isn't a trend, it's a turning point. Nvidia is running into the exact same problem Intel ran into with Prescott.

So you are going on record saying that the GTX480 will be slower then the 285GTX, that is a very bold statement; but of course that must be true for your above quote to be accurate.

 

[Schmide]

Did you read my post out of context?...the poster I was replying to was stating twice the wattage usage, whereas I was simply stating for the same compute power, you would need twice the ati cards...nothing to do with gamers!

The non clock adjusted numbers. We'll know when they hit the streets.

ATI 5870

# Processing power (single precision): 2.72 TeraFLOPS
# Processing power (double precision): 544 GigaFLOPS

Fermi (no single precision numbers)

Double precision performance in the range of 520GFlops - 630 GFlops

So other than the event/error handling and ecc memory the cards are kind of 1 to 1.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

In that article Charlie is talking about putting four Fermi Tesla's in a 2U case? But when I look at the newegg server case selection, 2U doesn't look that large.

What am I missing here?

Look at the S1070. It's a 1U server rack with 4 full GT200 GPUs. And NVidia is planning 2 more models with Fermi GPUs, S2050 and S2070.

 

[cbn]

Look at the S1070. It's a 1U server rack with 4 full GT200 GPUs. And NVidia is planning 2 more models with Fermi GPUs, S2050 and S2070.

That is impressive.

So we are talking a very high power density with these HPC racks.

Can anyone tell me why Nvidia doesn't use dual GPU cards (Tesla equivalent to 295 GTX) for this purpose? There must be a downside right?

 

[ronnn]

Did you read my post out of context?...the poster I was replying to was stating twice the wattage usage, whereas I was simply stating for the same compute power, you would need twice the ati cards...nothing to do with gamers!

Nope, I wasn't discussing gamers either. Just salespeople and fans.

 

[3DVagabond]

Did you read my post out of context?...the poster I was replying to was stating twice the wattage usage, whereas I was simply stating for the same compute power, you would need twice the ati cards...nothing to do with gamers!

GTX-480 and HD5870 are gaming cards though.

 

[thilanliyan]

Power hungry? GT200 used less power at load and idle than RV770, despite the bigger size.

Umm...what? Which cards are you talking about?
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd5850_11.html#sect0

 

[cbn]

Umm...what? Which cards are you talking about?
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd5850_11.html#sect0

Yep, I always remember RV770 having a terrible idle to full load ratio, but the peak power usage was usually lower than GTX 2xx.

HD58xx is a different story, Idle power consumption is less than half of what my HD4870 uses.

 

[taltamir]

Yep, I always remember RV770 having a terrible idle to full load ratio, but the peak power usage was usually lower than GTX 2xx.

HD58xx is a different story, Idle power consumption is less than half of what my HD4870 uses.

when it works right.. AMD has a lot of issues with their idle power saving methods not working as it should.

Anyways, I am going to wait for a reliable source like anandtech... but if it really is 275 watt there is no way in hell I am buying one.

 

[OCGuy]

Well it looks like ATI has won this round.

.....

Statements like this drive people away from these forums to....[H]ow should I put it?. More mature forums.

 

[cbn]

when it works right.. AMD has a lot of issues with their idle power saving methods not working as it should.

Do you have any links? That is the first time I have heard about ATI have problems with Evergreen idle power saving features.

 

[taltamir]

Do you have any links? That is the first time I have heard about ATI have problems with Evergreen idle power saving features.

are you kidding, you haven't heard of it?

Also, obviously I have links, I walk around with a pocketful of links to everything I know.[/sarcsam]

No I don't have links, I could search for some real quick, it will go easier because I remember specific instances.

Lets see, I recall when I bought my 4850 its power play didn't work.. took me a while to learn exactly what was wrong, I fixed it by modifying its bios...
A 5 minute search revealed this thread I wrote:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=196072
At the time both nvidia and ATI had problems with their coolers being underpowered for the task, or not properly applied, etc... still do AFAIK. But ATI had messed up the BIOS implementation of power play.
That was the first time I came across ATI messing up their power efficiency systems.

As far as CPUs go, the AMD cpus lose a ton of performance from their power saving features according to an article from anandtech back in the day... but lets stick with video cards. Obviously one occurrence is not enough, so lets look up a few more.

Ok, I found the most RECENT ATI power saving feature messup:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3743&p=2
That one is brand new too. I recall a few more vague betweel 2008 (my first link) and 2010 (second link), but I don't have all night to search for them. I already spent about half an hour on it.

 

[Schmide]

(grasping) taltamir? WTH? 5000 series 7w difference on a slave card? (/grasping)

We know the 4000 series power saving sucked because they couldn't power down the memory, but we're not talking about them.

 

[Lonyo]

So you are going on record saying that the GTX480 will be slower then the 285GTX, that is a very bold statement; but of course that must be true for your above quote to be accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_d

 

[akotlar]

The non clock adjusted numbers. We'll know when they hit the streets.

ATI 5870

# Processing power (single precision): 2.72 TeraFLOPS
# Processing power (double precision): 544 GigaFLOPS

Fermi (no single precision numbers)

Double precision performance in the range of 520GFlops - 630 GFlops

So other than the event/error handling and ecc memory the cards are kind of 1 to 1.

Right, they're equal for DP computing needs. Too bad Fermi has ~1/2 the SP performance. Fermi is 1/2 rate for DP, Cypress is 1/4

 

[dug777]

He calls Jen Hsun Huang "Dear Leader". What's up with that? I'll tell you. It's a total lack of respect and a total presence of contempt.

That's a funny thing to get your panties in a knot over.

Certainly rather more light hearted than suggesting someone is mentally ill and then laughing about it and trying to pretend that you didn't when someone suggests it wasn't entirely appropriate.

You say he's got something to hate Nvidia about? I don't know the background, but I can't imagine that it's more ridiculous than the reason that you appear to have for having such a huge problem with Charlie, which is because he's mean about your favourite GPU firm that gives you products to test...

More broadly, the answers to much of this debate will become clear soon enough, in the meantime we're just spinning wheels in here

 

[DominionSeraph]

Nvidia is running into the exact same problem Intel ran into with Prescott.

The Pentium 4 was designed in the boardroom. Intel thought it could be crafty and kill the resurgent AMD by pushing a proprietary memory format and with marketing pushing their empty gigahertz.

This doesn't apply to Fermi. Instead of narrowing the design scope, Nvidia has broadened it into an entirely different market. They're not hyping gamer-centric features.

Nvidia is looking to dominate GPU computing while still being in the (tiny) computer gaming, (huge) OEM, and (huge) console gaming markets. So what if they lose 6 months of the PC enthusiast market?

ATI fanbois might like to think that Nvidia is in a personal struggle against them, but it's not. It doesn't care about you at all. Get over it.


Ahhh... coping mechanisms. I really don't see why people go through the bother. I find it much less taxing to just be awesome rather than trying to cope with inferiority.

 

[Keysplayr]

That's a funny thing to get your panties in a knot over.

Certainly rather more light hearted than suggesting someone is mentally ill and then laughing about it and trying to pretend that you didn't when someone suggests it wasn't entirely appropriate.

You say he's got something to hate Nvidia about? I don't know the background, but I can't imagine that it's more ridiculous than the reason that you appear to have for having such a huge problem with Charlie, which is because he's mean about your favourite GPU firm that gives you products to test...

More broadly, the answers to much of this debate will become clear soon enough, in the meantime we're just spinning wheels in here

"Dear Leader" usage is an indicator. I don't personally care, Dug, but it is very telling of the level of contempt Charlie has for Nvidia. Very, very high. I can assure you, my "panties" aren't in a knot.

And Dug, whether or not I think Charlie is mentally ill, is my opinion, whatever that may be.
And by the way, I never used the term mentally ill. You guys did. I said it was a sickness. The level of hate he has for Nvidia. And he should definitely find a way to make peace with that IMO. Although I think that is an impossibility. He gets far too many web hits to stop now. The only thing that "might" end his tirades is if in the end, he gets so much information wrong (yet to be seen), that nobody would take him even half seriously any longer.

I've explained the "Huge" problem I have with Charlie. Whether or not you choose to read and absorb those reasons is entirely up to you. Whether you accept those reasons or not is also entirely up to you. I don't really mind either way.

 

[dug777]

"Dear Leader" usage is an indicator. I don't personally care, Dug, but it is very telling of the level of contempt Charlie has for Nvidia. Very, very high. I can assure you, my "panties" aren't in a knot.

And Dug, whether or not I think Charlie is mentally ill, is my opinion, whatever that may be.
And by the way, I never used the term mentally ill. You guys did. I said it was a sickness. The level of hate he has for Nvidia. And he should definitely find a way to make peace with that IMO. Although I think that is an impossibility. He gets far too many web hits to stop now. The only thing that "might" end his tirades is if in the end, he gets so much information wrong (yet to be seen), that nobody would take him even half seriously any longer.

I've explained the "Huge" problem I have with Charlie. Whether or not you choose to read and absorb those reasons is entirely up to you. Whether you accept those reasons or not is also entirely up to you. I don't really mind either way.

I can assure you that I have read and absorbed your reasons, and I don't mean to be difficult for the sake of it

You are entitled to your opinion, but I don't personally find it acceptable to accuse people of mental illness (implicitly or otherwise, I certainly wasn't the only one to read your posts that way) without any basis other than your layman's assessment and personal views of his opinions, and I certainly don't think it's acceptable to laugh about it.

That is all.

Moving on from that specific issue, my thoughts go something like this; you have a reason of sorts to 'hate' Charlie; and Charlie clearly has a reason of sorts to 'hate' nvidia. In this instance I cast no aspersions on those reasons.

In that circumstance, are you any better than him for posting contemptfully and abusively about him for hurling abuse and contempt at nvidia?

Personally I think you have made some excellent points about his inaccuracies, but I think they would come accross more forcefully and effectively without that baggage being evident in your posting.

My 2c at the end of the day I suppose

 

[Keysplayr]

I can assure you that I have read and absorbed your reasons, and I don't mean to be difficult for the sake of it

You are entitled to your opinion, but I don't personally find it acceptable to accuse people of mental illness (implicitly or otherwise, I certainly wasn't the only one to read your posts that way) without any basis other than your layman's assessment and personal views of his opinions, and I certainly don't think it's acceptable to laugh about it.

That is all.

Moving on from that specific issue, my thoughts go something like this; you have a reason of sorts to 'hate' Charlie; and Charlie clearly has a reason of sorts to 'hate' nvidia. In this instance I cast no aspersions on those reasons.

In that circumstance, are you any better than him for posting contemptfully and abusively about him for hurling abuse and contempt at nvidia?

Personally I think you have made some excellent points about his inaccuracies, but I think they would come accross more forcefully and effectively without that baggage being evident in your posting.

My 2c at the end of the day I suppose

first bold ^ : Neither do I. Who was laughing about it again?

second bold ^ : Ahhhhhhh, now you're getting it. Sorry for posting that way, but as you can see, it was to convey (in part) a point which you have struck solid gold on.
Thank you for getting it.
Charlie would be much more "effective" without that baggage being evident in his posting.

I still think he needs some sort of closure though.

 

[dug777]

first bold ^ : Neither do I. Who was laughing about it again?

second bold ^ : Ahhhhhhh, now you're getting it. Sorry for posting that way, but as you can see, it was to convey (in part) a point which you have struck solid gold on.
Thank you for getting it.
Charlie would be much more "effective" without that baggage being evident in his posting.

I still think he needs some sort of closure though.

I think we're agreed on most things, and maybe I misconstrued your response to Marc's post

Like I said, this thread (and indeed most of the threads in this forum at the moment), are just wheel spinning while we wait for the NDA to lift and for Anand and his ilk to give us the straight dope on performance, price, power and purchaseability

 

[Keysplayr]

I think we're agreed on most things, and maybe I misconstrued your response to Marc's post

Like I said, this thread (and indeed most of the threads in this forum at the moment), are just wheel spinning while we wait for the NDA to lift and for Anand and his ilk to give us the straight dope on performance, price, power and purchaseability

I agree that we agree. Wheel spinning, burning rubber, etc. I can't wait for all this to go public. I'm not alone by a longshot. Soon enough. 11 days to go.

 

[yh125d]

Maybe he is nuts, I have no idea. But I know this hate campaign isn't really what you would call "normal". A dose of reality might help.

I'm pretty sure that you see that he runs amok with contempt in his posts in semi-accurate link threads. He could get his points across perfectly well without all that crap. But, since it is "semi-accurate", he has a convenient excuse to immediately dismiss anything and everything Charlie says. So externally, he seems to have quite a large problem with Charlie. Actually, Large is an understatement.

Understand something folks, whether Keys is hiding deep-seated fanboyism or not isn't the problem I have with him, it's the way he comes across. He is 100% biased against Charlie and 100% pro Nvidia. If he ever has anything negative to say about NV, he does it very mildly and throws in a comparison of Charlie and how many levels of magnitude more inaccurate his articles are.
He posts basically the same i-hate-charlie posts in every SA thread. What's up with that? I'll tell you. It's a way to deflect negative attention from nvidia by helping turn it into a charlie flame thread.

If keys didn't later post something saying roughly on the lines of "lol j/k ", would we be any more likely to recognize him as trolling for threads he could flame charlie in while subtly propping up nvidia?

I think this version is at least "semi-accurate", and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who feels that way

 

[Keysplayr]

Looks like I struck a nerve, YH?
LOL go ahead, knock yourself out.
I'd appreciate if you would correct my quote though. When people read it, they might think that I actually said them. That would be intentionally misleading. We don't want any of that, now do we?

 

[yh125d]

More deflection from keys. How unexpected.


And no it wouldn't be intentionally misleading. I specifically referred to "this version", suggesting it had been edited. Nice try though. Completely moving away from your anti-charlie vendetta (which has striking similarities to his anti-NV one)


I wish people would just stop posting Charlie articles. The fanboys could still go to his site and read up, you wouldn't get your panties in a twist because he insulted your "dear leader", and the rest of us would have less posts dripping with fanboy drivel from charlie, yourself, or whoever else