4870X2 vs GTX280 Poll

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: jaredpace
66 / 18. Looks like this poll will show the 4870x2 being favored 4 to 1 soon.

76/22 now...

Too bad the polls are anonymous. I'd like to see how many people who voted for either will actually buy one. It's easy to support ATI's $500+ card when you can't actually buy it yet.

Although it is interesting to see the dislike for NVIDIA... A year ago, they were the company with the card no one could beat, now they're the company that has to drop prices on their flagship for it to sell. It's not all due to tech either... The GTX 280 itself is a great card, but NVIDIA has given it a poor image with the initial pricing... If it had come out at as it is priced today, no one would have whined nearly as much, even with the $300 4870 performing as well as it does. The X1800XT was the same way... That card was a tad bit pricey for what you got, but it really was an awesome card that didn't get its due credit because of ATI's lateness to market. It's all a matter of timing, pricing, and consumer perception.

Much of this is shaped by review sites, and it looks like ATI might be playing the mind share game pretty well this round. The early release of the 4850 and the month early pre-release previews of the 4870X2 show they are working the review sites to hurt NV sales (effectively, apparently). I think they can only get away with the pre-release thing now because the previous paper launches are a distant memory. I think if they do it too often, it will wear thin.

I was anonymous till I read your post . I voted along time ago . I voted neither . As I have no need to buy any ATI cards until the r800. THE question was which would you buy. I ain't buying.

Ya NV has screwed up alot . Lets take alook at all the small piecies that has turned us away from nv.

Mind you there is little proof. But here goes .

1) MS Vista DX10 release. Somebody went to MS and cried but we don't have shaders that can do that. SO DX10.1 was removed from Vista only to be replaced later in sp1 updater. This can be proved by the early DX10 wqhite papers. DX10.1 specs were in the orginal DX10 specs. WHO cried . Who can't do DX10.1. :camera:

2) Dx10.1 was removed from the game AC I wonder if a company that can't do DX10.1 had anything to do with it . :disgust:

3) Getting an intel chipset deal and than not allowing sli on intel chipsets:evil:

4). Not doing anything for 1 1/2 years just small upgrades.

5) HIGH PRICING :|

6) Focus groups that piss all off.:music:

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1

I was anonymous till I read your post .

I haven't voted yet.

Originally posted by: nitromullet
Where's your "both" option?

I wasn't kidding...

 

[Acanthus]

both cards are just too pricey for me to care at this point. I usually run a high end card but the 9600GT suits me just fine this time around.

Unless i want to go shell out $500 on a display so i need one...

 

[MichaelD]

The 4870X2 looks to be the kickass card of the year. But it's power requirements and price put it out of consideration for me. I'd have to upgrade my PS to run it so that would be another $250 or so on top of the cost of the card.

When the X2 hits the etailers' shelves, it should drive down the price of the regular 4870...that's what I'll be getting. So tempting to just buy it now...but isn't that always the case?

 

[ddogg]

4870X2 hands down although power consumption and heat is a slight concern to me.

 

[Soubriquet]

I am glad to see all the confidence in the 4870x2, maybe it will get some of the HS/F companies to start taking the ATIx2 seriously, ditto game devs will have to support them too and who knows maybe even some patches for games that currently cant use them, that would be nice... if AMD/ATI did something about advancing on those two issues there would be no reason not to get 4870x2 I can think of.

 

[zerogear]

GTX 280 (because I own one already)

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: jaredpace
66 / 18. Looks like this poll will show the 4870x2 being favored 4 to 1 soon.

76/22 now...

Too bad the polls are anonymous. I'd like to see how many people who voted for either will actually buy one. It's easy to support ATI's $500+ card when you can't actually buy it yet.

Although it is interesting to see the dislike for NVIDIA... A year ago, they were the company with the card no one could beat, now they're the company that has to drop prices on their flagship for it to sell. It's not all due to tech either... The GTX 280 itself is a great card, but NVIDIA has given it a poor image with the initial pricing... If it had come out at as it is priced today, no one would have whined nearly as much, even with the $300 4870 performing as well as it does. The X1800XT was the same way... That card was a tad bit pricey for what you got, but it really was an awesome card that didn't get its due credit because of ATI's lateness to market. It's all a matter of timing, pricing, and consumer perception.

Much of this is shaped by review sites, and it looks like ATI might be playing the mind share game pretty well this round. The early release of the 4850 and the month early pre-release previews of the 4870X2 show they are working the review sites to hurt NV sales (effectively, apparently). I think they can only get away with the pre-release thing now because the previous paper launches are a distant memory. I think if they do it too often, it will wear thin.

I was anonymous till I read your post . I voted along time ago . I voted neither . As I have no need to buy any ATI cards until the r800. THE question was which would you buy. I ain't buying.

Ya NV has screwed up alot . Lets take alook at all the small piecies that has turned us away from nv.

Mind you there is little proof. But here goes .

1) MS Vista DX10 release. Somebody went to MS and cried but we don't have shaders that can do that. SO DX10.1 was removed from Vista only to be replaced later in sp1 updater. This can be proved by the early DX10 wqhite papers. DX10.1 specs were in the orginal DX10 specs. WHO cried . Who can't do DX10.1. :camera:

2) Dx10.1 was removed from the game AC I wonder if a company that can't do DX10.1 had anything to do with it . :disgust:

3) Getting an intel chipset deal and than not allowing sli on intel chipsets:evil:

4). Not doing anything for 1 1/2 years just small upgrades.

5) HIGH PRICING :|

6) Focus groups that piss all off.:music:

What about #7? How do you feel about the pricing now? (GTX 260 and 280 didn't launch any higher than 8800GTS GTX did. come to think of it, I remember paying $400 for a 6800GT after launch. ATI had just as pricey counterparts e.g. X800XT/PE)
And #8, any thoughts on Physx?

 

[Nemesis 1]

Well Keys on the pricing I feel NV was trying to screw alot of people till AMD forced them to be more honest . Its not like NV said hay people we feel good about ya. So were lowering our prices.

Physics sounds great as long as the cpu does it. not the GPU which is suppose to be rendering.


As for ATI /NV prices since the R700 came out . I posted a link about ATI/NV fixing pricies. Looks like AMD put a stop to it. Because AMD didn't do it ATI/NV did. So AMD is coming clean . Funny how that works out isn't it?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Well Keys on the pricing I feel NV was trying to screw alot of people till AMD forced them to be more honest . Its not like NV said hay people we feel good about ya. So were lowering our prices.

Physics sounds great as long as the cpu does it. not the GPU which is suppose to be rendering.


As for ATI /NV prices since the R700 came out . I posted a link about ATI/NV fixing pricies. Looks like AMD put a stop to it. Because AMD didn't do it ATI/NV did. So AMD is coming clean . Funny how that works out isn't it?

Pricing: It's called, long awaited for competition. Look how affordable AMD cpu's are now because of Intel? AMD prices were very high until C2D hit the streets. I just bought 2 Athlon X2 CPU's and mobos to set up systems for my kids. Cheap stuff, thanks to Intel. Competition. AMD finally has some competitive products after a long time, and this will always force competitors prices down. I know you know this, but do not know why I have to explain it to you. Go figure.

Physics: As long as the CPU does it at 1/8th the speed you mean? Yeah, I can see how that is desirable.
The GPU IS rendering and handling physics. And it's doing it well. I can't see how you have given much thought to this automatically preferring a much slower solution. Ageia came out with their PPU becuase the CPU could not handle such physics. They saw a potential market for it. Albeit a bit premature.
Now Nvidia GPU's can handle the physics and rendering all by themselves.

 

[RussianSensation]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

What about #7? How do you feel about the pricing now? (GTX 260 and 280 didn't launch any higher than 8800GTS GTX did. come to think of it, I remember paying $400 for a 6800GT after launch. ATI had just as pricey counterparts e.g. X800XT/PE)

Can you still justify paying $150-200 extra over 4870 when GTX 280 is inferior with 8AA, and actually losses in some games? IMO, a card that costs $150-200 extra should be superior in every game. And with 4870X2 on the horizon, even if you hated CF, at the very least you would be tempted to try it out. GTX 280 is still bad value.

And #8, any thoughts on Physx?

The problem is that we need majority of gamers to have the hardware capable enough to run PhysX and provide smooth gameplay at the same time for developers to consider developing for it. It's hard to imagine anything under GTX280 can do that. Although for a temporary time GTX 280 is far more advanced than most games require so it would be nice to have this option

 

[ManWithNoName]

Originally posted by: MichaelD
The 4870X2 looks to be the kickass card of the year. But it's power requirements and price put it out of consideration for me. I'd have to upgrade my PS to run it so that would be another $250 or so on top of the cost of the card.

When the X2 hits the etailers' shelves, it should drive down the price of the regular 4870...that's what I'll be getting. So tempting to just buy it now...but isn't that always the case?

I don't think you'll need to spend $250 on a PSU. I just picked up this Corsair 750TX with +12V rail @ 60a for $119. I think it would work fine for you even with a whopping 4 Terabytes worth of HDs you own. Review stated it could also deliver 900W of power at 80% efficiency.....

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/505/1

http://www.buy.com/prod/corsai...loc/101/206178325.html

I guess you were probably looking at a 1000W model.

 

[jamesbond007]

For those looking to buy a 4870 now, NewEgg has the ASUS Radeon 4870 for $275 shipped after $30 MIR! (free s/h)

Text

I personally didn't want to upgrade to a new PSU just yet, so I opted for the single 4870. Additionally, I'm a casual gamer, but do enjoy Crysis and other newer games on my 24" panel, so the performance was needed.

 

[bobsmith1492]

I got a 4850 a week ago and it's treating me well with Oblivion so far.

 

[OCGuy]

Just picked up the Superclocked EVGA 280 for $449 @ the Egg. I guess I can thank ATi for that one...that card would total over $700 two weeks ago.

 

[imported_mauers]

Voted for 4870X2. Although my 4850 runs all the games I play well enough.

 

[SickBeast]

Both cards are beyond what I would ever pay for a graphics card...however if I had to choose one of them, it would be the 4870X2. At the same price as the GTX280 it's a better card pretty much across the board.

It's going to be interesting to see how nVidia responds to the current situation. AMD has them beat at $150, $300, and $450. If they start selling the 9800GTX at $100, things could get interesting. Otherwise, they need to drop the GTX260/GTX280 prices even more. Realistically the GTX260 should be 25% cheaper than the 4870, and the GTX280 should cost 10-15% more than it ($350 maximum).

 

[nanaki333]

4870x2. i actually had a gtx 280 and didn't even open it before i sold it. i bought it before i actually read reviews and was disappointed that it wasn't any better than my gx2. i think the gx2 can hold out a bit longer. i get whatever is on top at the time. i'm not brand loyal by any means.

 

[lamere]

4870x2 - i already have a 4870 and plan on getting an x2 or maybe another 4780 single, dont know yet.
ATi's driver team doesnt abandon old games like nvidia's. i got ahold of some classics system shock 2 and theif 2 recently, and while you have to go on the net and get a community written fix to make the games play, (that MAY work, its not guaranteed) when i got my 4870 i loaded them up and off i went, no real issues or rendering crashes. there's some minor stuttering here and there but thats in every game i've played so far, probably due to the hotfix drivers being betas and not official. at least i hope so!

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation
Can you still justify paying $150-200 extra over 4870 when GTX 280 is inferior with 8AA, and actually losses in some games? IMO, a card that costs $150-200 extra should be superior in every game. And with 4870X2 on the horizon, even if you hated CF, at the very least you would be tempted to try it out. GTX 280 is still bad value.

Yeah, nVidia carried the same 8x Anti Aliasing issue from the geForce 8 series. Even in lots of game scenarios with high resolutions, the single HD 3870 was able to match or outperform the 8800GTX at 8x. Considering that the HD 3870 does Anti Aliasing with Shaders, now the HD 4870 which uses Hardware to resolve Anti Aliasing will increase it's advantage. (Even though using Custom Filters has a greater impact in performance on the HD4XXX series than on the HD3XXX series, don't know exactly why, but seems that the HD3XXX series has a better decompression data path for it in the shaders)

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Pricing: It's called, long awaited for competition. Look how affordable AMD cpu's are now because of Intel? AMD prices were very high until C2D hit the streets. I just bought 2 Athlon X2 CPU's and mobos to set up systems for my kids. Cheap stuff, thanks to Intel. Competition. AMD finally has some competitive products after a long time, and this will always force competitors prices down. I know you know this, but do not know why I have to explain it to you. Go figure.

That's true, but ATI could have gone the route of Nvidia and priced their boards astronomically high to match Nvidia's pricing structure in order to maximize their profits, but they didn't. Instead, they opted to release their cards at a price point that put them within reach of the average gamer while obviously still providing an acceptable profit.

Nvidia seems to enjoy gouging their customers. Remember those $750 7800GTX's? Now we have the $650 GTX280's that, a few weeks later, miraculously sell for $450 when faced with direct competition. Nvidia obviously could have chosen to set the GTX280 price at $450 upon initial release. But instead, they opted to suck as much money as possible out of their customers.

And what did it gain them? A small profit from those few willing to actually pay that much and general angst and animosity from the enthusiast community at large for trying to pull it off. Oh, and let's not forget a huge surge of people ordering ATI cards intead.

Yes, Nvidia, that worked well.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: Creig
That's true, but ATI could have gone the route of Nvidia and priced their boards astronomically high to match Nvidia's pricing structure in order to maximize their profits, but they didn't. Instead, they opted to release their cards at a price point that put them within reach of the average gamer while obviously still providing an acceptable profit.

That's possible, ATI probably could've priced this generation of parts at a higher price point based on performance alone, but perhaps they realized consumers had absolutely no confidence in their products and wouldn't spend beyond a certain point for them. If you look at both of their past two launches before RV770, prices were quickly slashed because the parts could not compete in the segment they were priced. By pricing low this time around and coming out with a part that exceeded expectations they've reversed that role and put NV on the defensive.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Both cards are beyond what I would ever pay for a graphics card...however if I had to choose one of them, it would be the 4870X2. At the same price as the GTX280 it's a better card pretty much across the board.

It's going to be interesting to see how nVidia responds to the current situation. AMD has them beat at $150, $300, and $450. If they start selling the 9800GTX at $100, things could get interesting. Otherwise, they need to drop the GTX260/GTX280 prices even more. Realistically the GTX260 should be 25% cheaper than the 4870, and the GTX280 should cost 10-15% more than it ($350 maximum).

Well again, prices aren't going to scale linearly based on performance. You're always going to have to pay more for the high-end and in this case, more for single-GPU vs. multi-GPU. If everything had to be linear and make sense, the 4870 shouldn't be priced at $300 and the X2 shouldn't be $500 based on 4850CF performance etc. etc.

 

[krnmastersgt]

I voted neither. Probably just gonna get a GTX+ or two and wait till Nehalem has become commonplace to upgrade my whole system, and I don't need cards for a res higher than 1920x1200 or so, hence my reason for not going any higher.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: chizowThat's possible, ATI probably could've priced this generation of parts at a higher price point based on performance alone, but perhaps they realized consumers had absolutely no confidence in their products and wouldn't spend beyond a certain point for them. If you look at both of their past two launches before RV770, prices were quickly slashed because the parts could not compete in the segment they were priced. By pricing low this time around and coming out with a part that exceeded expectations they've reversed that role and put NV on the defensive.

Oh, come on! No confidence? THAT'S what you're basing your argument on? If anything, it was Nvidia's OVERCONFIDENCE that their new 1.4 billion transistor flagship card would crush anything that ATI could come out with that led them to price them at $650.

Each new generation of card from both companies has an equal chance to shine or flop. One design error or miscalculation could doom either side to failure. I'm sure ATI knew exactly what performance level their cards had versus their Nvidia counterparts and could have easily priced them to match. But instead they chose to price them low enough so that the average gamer could afford them.

People look at benchmarks when purchasing video cards, not "confidence levels". Your argument is nothing but a smoke screen to deflect attention away from the fact that Nvidia tried to get overly greedy and it completely backfired on them.