48xx problems exist or?

[insurgent]

Hi guys, I've been searching this forum for 4850/4870 related problems because I'm planning on getting one. I prefer ATI (for this generation atleast) but I've been reading issues from supposed 48xx owners about problems related to heat, noise and drivers, these claims seem to be FUD but I want to be sure anyway. So, any owners here have issues with their new ATI cards or are the majority of the problems I read user error/ignorance/bs?

 

[Sylvanas]

Read the reviews, the 4xxx are excellent cards. People don't log on to forums to tell you everything is fine, they make a post if something is wrong- this gives you a disproportionate view of a product, it is still best to read reviews opposed to searching forums, there will always be complaints for anything.

 

[insurgent]

True, but the lack of reply by owners disputing these complaints are rare... I just want to make sure even though I have a feeling the supposed problems are blown out of proportion. The lack of complaints here made me more confident about getting these cards.

 

[Sylvanas]

Originally posted by: insurgent
True, but the lack of reply by owners disputing these complaints are rare... I just want to make sure even though I have a feeling the supposed problems are blown out of proportion. The lack of complaints here made me more confident about getting these cards.

You don't need to worry, not everyone is going to chime in with 'Actually I'm ok' . I'd suggest Visiontek 4800s for the Lifetime warranty if you have any problems.

 

[curtisbouvier]

I know one thing for sure, there's a bunch of nit pick issues that some people get annoyed by with ATI.

Alt tabbing is incredibly slow with a screen flicker, dragging videos around on your screen leave trails. CCC causes problems with people using G15 keyboards, macros are slow and delayed and don't always work in games.

With nvidia, the second you smash your windows key, windows is there ready to rock with no delay. Ati can be as much as 3 seconds before you can actually use yourdesk top after alt tabbing. depending on whether or not you have CCC installed. without CCC it's more like 1.2 seconds.

and when you alt tab with ATI, ventrillo / winamp will repeat once or twice which can get annoying if you alt tab regularly.

still a great card with killer performance for the buck. but me and my buddy both stuck with nvidia over that alt tab issue.

 

[ss284]

I can also attest to Ati having some weird issue when alt tabbing from 3D apps. The problem is even more apparent with two monitors. I like keeping vent and my IM program on my second monitor, and there are many flickering issues. I actually fixed it by changing the idle 2d memory clock to the 3d setting. But still, Ati needs to fix these little annoying issues.

 

[MarcVenice]

Erm, alt-tabbing isn't exactly smooth on my nvidia card either.

As for heat, the HD48x0's don't run hot, not hotter then most other videocards, the fan just doesn't spin fast enough. Easily fixed ...

 

[Foxery]

Quick Guide to getting your 4850/4870 up to and running

 

[curtisbouvier]

Originally posted by: MarcVenice
Erm, alt-tabbing isn't exactly smooth on my nvidia card either.

It probably depends on your setup to some extent.

Buddy and I went through the trouble of testing this on 7 different video cards with 4 different systems, over a 1 week time span to get to the bottom of it. that's how annoyed we were with the issue.

if a system from 2001, and 2003 can both alt tab instantly with no skipping in vent with a Geforce 4 Ti4200 and Geforce 6 light / AGP

then there is NO excuse for a brand spankin new Ati card to take 2-3 seconds to get into windows, we both think it's the drivers though, not the cards.


cards used were:

ATI x1900XT, 4870, r9800 pro

nvidia geforce GTX260, Ti4200, Geforce 6 series and 7 series.

each system / card setup had the latest drivers installed.

One system had an AMD Thunderbird 1.33 ghz with 512MB memory. alt tabbing was perfect with a geforce 6 AGP.

My buddy bought a brand new computer last week, it came with a 4870 so naturally after 6 years of alt tabbing instantly, which he does regularly, then going to a 3 second laggy screen flicker with vent skipping. we were both like wow wtf...

when we threw in the GTX260, every nitpick was completely solved and gone.

most people might not care about these smaller issues, but its definitely worth mentioning.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: curtisbouvier
I know one thing for sure, there's a bunch of nit pick issues that some people get annoyed by with ATI.

Alt tabbing is incredibly slow with a screen flicker, dragging videos around on your screen leave trails. CCC causes problems with people using G15 keyboards, macros are slow and delayed and don't always work in games.

With nvidia, the second you smash your windows key, windows is there ready to rock with no delay. Ati can be as much as 3 seconds before you can actually use yourdesk top after alt tabbing. depending on whether or not you have CCC installed. without CCC it's more like 1.2 seconds.

and when you alt tab with ATI, ventrillo / winamp will repeat once or twice which can get annoying if you alt tab regularly.

still a great card with killer performance for the buck. but me and my buddy both stuck with nvidia over that alt tab issue.

Alt+Tab is slow?
:Q




RotFL

my alt+tab is instant .. i get out of Crysis back to desktop in under a second .. with buggy Cat 8.7

- with my 8800GTX it is about the same ... i never really noticed the difference
:roll:

one thing i have noted .. there is evidently a new design for 4850 that has better cooling .. get that one or 4870 which seems to have no issues that i can find. i am now looking forward to adding 4870x2 for crossfireX-3

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: curtisbouvier
most people might not care about these smaller issues, but its definitely worth mentioning.

Certainly true, but to be fair, my 8800GTX had some quirks with alt-tab with 17x series and higher drivers and some games. Ultimately the work around I found was to use alt-enter instead of alt-tab, but I think it was a memory management/WDDM issue. But ya my GTX 280 is much better in this regard.

 

[Insomniator]

Haven't had any problems with my 4850 that I've had for about 2 months. Never did the fan fix or read any of the get your card up and running guide.. it worked fine out of the box.

I thought a 2-3 second lag when alt-tabbing was normal though? Always did that with my 6600GT and 9800PRO before it, no different with this card. XP and Vista for the 6600GT were the same. I'm getting 4 gigs of ram in soon so I'll see if that helps but I'm pretty sure that I've never seen instant alt-tabbing out of games other than... solitaire.

Hell the resolution has to change most of the time for me (SC, D2, WC3) and that alone would require a second or two.

 

[DaveSimmons]

My 4870 has been flawless for about 5 weeks now. The only thing I had to do was up the fan speed with a Catalyst profile. Not because of any problems, just because I prefer a temp of 60c idle over 80c idle.

 

[CP5670]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: curtisbouvier
I know one thing for sure, there's a bunch of nit pick issues that some people get annoyed by with ATI.

Alt tabbing is incredibly slow with a screen flicker, dragging videos around on your screen leave trails. CCC causes problems with people using G15 keyboards, macros are slow and delayed and don't always work in games.

With nvidia, the second you smash your windows key, windows is there ready to rock with no delay. Ati can be as much as 3 seconds before you can actually use yourdesk top after alt tabbing. depending on whether or not you have CCC installed. without CCC it's more like 1.2 seconds.

and when you alt tab with ATI, ventrillo / winamp will repeat once or twice which can get annoying if you alt tab regularly.

still a great card with killer performance for the buck. but me and my buddy both stuck with nvidia over that alt tab issue.

Alt+Tab is slow?
:Q




RotFL

my alt+tab is instant .. i get out of Crysis back to desktop in under a second .. with buggy Cat 8.7

- with my 8800GTX it is about the same ... i never really noticed the difference
:roll:

one thing i have noted .. there is evidently a new design for 4850 that has better cooling .. get that one or 4870 which seems to have no issues that i can find. i am now looking forward to adding 4870x2 for crossfireX-3

I didn't notice any difference with alt-tab itself, but 2D/3D resolution switching is often a lot slower on ATI cards in my experience and that can contribute to a slower alt-tab. Most people won't encounter this situation nowadays since LCDs usually stay the same resolution in both Windows and games. However, CRT users like me often run games at a higher resolution than Windows and the ATI drivers take longer to do this in some (but not all) games, especially when there is a big difference in the resolutions. I saw a fairly dramatic improvement in the loading times of several games when I switched to an Nvidia card recently.

 

[AmberClad]

I've never noticed any ALT-TAB lag with either my current card or my old 8800GTS.

 

[Aikouka]

Haven't had any issues with mine nor any of the things that others have reported. Although the CCC does seem to be slower to load than the nVidia control panel... if that bothers you. I could try creating some macros on my G15 to see if I have the problems mentioned there.

EDIT:

I also play games in windowed mode, so I don't really have alt-tab issues as I can just move my mouse out regardless.

 

[mancunian]

In short, if you don't buy one with a reference cooler, you'll have no problem.

The models available now with aftermarket cooling will have a new BIOS and sufficient cooling capabilities.

The 4800 chips are not hot chips when cooled correctly.

EDIT: no problem with Alt-Tab here either.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: mancunian
In short, if you don't buy one with a reference cooler, you'll have no problem.

The models available now with aftermarket cooling will have a new BIOS and sufficient cooling capabilities.

The 4800 chips are not hot chips when cooled correctly.

That applies to the 4850 but not the 4870.

The 4870 already has a good dual-slot cooler, it's just that vendors ship it with the default fan speed set for silence instead of cool running.

 

[Fattysharp]

The heat issue you hear about is not so much an issue but a preference. People want low numbers, but these cards are rated for a very high heat threshhold, and most people do not like to see a temp hitting in the low 80s which *was* common on load for the 4850 and the 4870 at launch. Changing the default fan profile brings these temp's down for those who do not like seeing the high temps. Also heats up you room rather quickly.

I also had an issue with that level heat on a part in my computer. I am running a diamond 4870, and the default settings had it idle around 70C and load in the low 80s.

Different brands are now releasing cards with modified bios' that adjust the fan settings better then they did at launch. Asus has an excellent bios that scales the fan to keep the chip at around 60C idle, and 70C on load. I flashed my Diamond with an Asus Bios and am loving the way it handles temps and the fan. I do not reccomend flashing your card unless you do a lot of research on it first, and even then think twice about it

Alt tabbing is not an issue for my machine. pretty much instant.

I would shop around, and get either the nvidia 260, or a 4870 depending on the prices you have available to you. both are preforming well and fairly closely together in price. If you have a specific game title you love, pick the card that preforms best for it.

If you do go with a 4870, i would suggest the visiontek for the warranty, or the the asus for the great bios and additional fan apps they supply.

**edited - First paragraph, Note, people want low heat to keep everything in their pc cool, even if the gpu is rated for high heat, some people worry about the rest of their parts while others do not. This is more of a concern for overclockers. Which is a good chunk of the people on these forums.

 

[mancunian]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
That applies to the 4850 but not the 4870.

The 4870 already has a good dual-slot cooler, it's just that vendors ship it with the default fan speed set for silence instead of cool running.

Indeed you are correct Dave, cheers for putting me right.

So I guess that should read do not buy a 4850 with reference cooling, the 4870 is ok as it is suffiently cooled with the reference design. If buying a 4850, get one with an aftermarket cooling solution.

At this point in time, a 4870 is a great buy and does not cost much more than its little brother.

 

[mancunian]

Originally posted by: Fattysharp
The heat issue you hear about is not so much an issue but a preference. People want low numbers, but these cards are rated for a very high heat threshhold, and most people do not like to see a temp hitting in the low 80s which *was* common on load for the 4850 and the 4870 at launch. Changing the default fan profile brings these temp's down for those who do not like seeing the high temps. Also heats up you room rather quickly.

While what you say is correct, most around here would agree that electronics operate less efficiently at higher temperatures and that heat is ultimately not good for such circuitry.

So you are correct, it is a preference. But it's a preference borne out of knowing that heat is generally a bad thing. The preference is to run your equipment at as low temps as possible. When I reduced my load and idle temps on my card by 50C, it was a good thing to do.


It was a case of install cooler, clock up card, monitor temps for a week or so, and forget about it.

 

[Canai]

Originally posted by: Sylvanas

Originally posted by: insurgent
True, but the lack of reply by owners disputing these complaints are rare... I just want to make sure even though I have a feeling the supposed problems are blown out of proportion. The lack of complaints here made me more confident about getting these cards.

You don't need to worry, not everyone is going to chime in with 'Actually I'm ok' . I'd suggest Visiontek 4800s for the Lifetime warranty if you have any problems.

Yup. Visiontek 4870 here, haven't had any problems after getting fan speed sorted out.

Originally posted by: ss284
I can also attest to Ati having some weird issue when alt tabbing from 3D apps. The problem is even more apparent with two monitors. I like keeping vent and my IM program on my second monitor, and there are many flickering issues. I actually fixed it by changing the idle 2d memory clock to the 3d setting. But still, Ati needs to fix these little annoying issues.

I've had a ton of problems with TF2 and alt-tabbing. Other games alt-tab fine, but TF2 takes forever to tab back into, and sometimes player models disappear after alt-tabbing, requiring a relaunch of the game. I don't think it's an ATi exclusive problem though, some of my clan mates have 9800- and 8800-series cards and have the same problems. I also had a similar experience with my x1900 AIW. Other games alt-tab without problem, CoD4, Crysis, GoW, Guild Wars, HL2 / Synergy, so I think it may be an Orange Box engine issue.

Originally posted by: mancunian

Originally posted by: Fattysharp
The heat issue you hear about is not so much an issue but a preference. People want low numbers, but these cards are rated for a very high heat threshhold, and most people do not like to see a temp hitting in the low 80s which *was* common on load for the 4850 and the 4870 at launch. Changing the default fan profile brings these temp's down for those who do not like seeing the high temps. Also heats up you room rather quickly.

While what you say is correct, most around here would agree that electronics operate less efficiently at higher temperatures and that heat is ultimately not good for such circuitry.

So you are correct, it is a preference. But it's a preference borne out of knowing that heat is generally a bad thing. The preference is to run your equipment at as low temps as possible. When I reduced my load and idle temps on my card by 50C, it was a good thing to do.


It was a case of install cooler, clock up card, monitor temps for a week or so, and forget about it.

I'm one of the people who runs everything as cool as possible all the time, and let fan noise be damned!!

 

[AmberClad]

Originally posted by: Canai
I've had a ton of problems with TF2 and alt-tabbing. Other games alt-tab fine, but TF2 takes forever to tab back into, and sometimes player models disappear after alt-tabbing, requiring a relaunch of the game. I don't think it's an ATi exclusive problem though, some of my clan mates have 9800- and 8800-series cards and have the same problems. I also had a similar experience with my x1900 AIW. Other games alt-tab without problem, CoD4, Crysis, GoW, Guild Wars, HL2 / Synergy, so I think it may be an Orange Box engine issue.

That is indeed a pretty well known problem with TF2. The huge delay in returning from ALT-TAB that is (ALT-TABing to desktop should still be instantaneous like any other game). Anyways, I experienced that with my 8800GTS, and I have no doubt that it'll still be a problem with my current card (unless Valve finally got around to fixing it).

 

[curtisbouvier]

I should have made that clear. my bad

ALT Tabbing is fine with Ati cards.

Alt tabbing in and out of full-screen Games however... is where the problem is.

normally you hit your windows key or alt tab out of your game, windows instantly appears, but windows is frozen for a few seconds followed by a flicker. (depending on drivers / game the delay can range from 1-3 seconds)

Sometimes theres a slight snap or pop that happens right when the flicker happens.

ventrilo skips if some one is talking right when you alt tab. sometimes winamp skips as well but that varries on whether or not you have a soundcard.

I would suggest some people with ATI go try this to see if that's the case with you guys.

 

[AmberClad]

Ok, I just tried that 10 times in a row with CoH and Winamp playing in the background. There is always one flicker when desktop is restored. But the restore is still instantaneous. Even with the flicker, the whole process still takes far less than one second. No skipping at any time in Winamp.

It sounds like your sequence is a several second freeze followed by a flicker.
I'm seeing an immediately jump to desktop, followed a split second later by a flicker, followed immediately by the desktop again.

So, out of curiosity, how much RAM do you have installed?