4K gaming: MOAR RAM NEEDED!!

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zebrax2

Senior member
Nov 18, 2007
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How is running the game in 1080 benefiting you having a 4K display? You either render the pixels or you don't, there is no substitute.

You render the UI in 4k. One of the nice benefits of having high PPI screens are that it improve readability of texts. Also i don't think AA affects 2d graphics in the UI so having a high resolution version of it would be nice as well.
 
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crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
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You render the UI in 4k. One of the nice benefits of having high PPI screens are that it improve readability of texts. Also i don't think AA affects 2d graphics in the UI so having a high resolution version of it would be nice as well.

Does this mean we are supposed to buy 4K screens so the UI can look nicer?
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
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That seems like the primary advantage. Much like the retina displays on iPhones and iPads. I assume when he says UI, he means the desktop.
 

njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,331
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More like more GPU needed. Even Titan SLI would have a lot of trouble running C3 Ultra. 4k displays might be around the corner, but our GPUs are still 2-3 generations away from being able to run that resolution.
 

2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
4,281
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I'll worry about 4K gaming when I get a 4K monitor that can do 4K at at least 60Hz at a reasonable price.
 

Lavans

Member
Sep 21, 2010
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I've been gaming at 4k for about a year now on a single GTX680. Downsampled via custom resolution on a 1080p monitor. One thing I can say is that if you don't use MSAA, or just limit yourself to 2xMSAA, then you can expect decent framerates across a lot of (current) games with little issue on high or max settings. Now that you can get GTX680 performance for $250, a 4k computer capable won't even break the wallet. Though I doubt that will hold true when the next generation of games hit in the coming year.
 

UaVaj

Golden Member
Nov 16, 2012
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lavans. which display are you currently rendering 4k (8.2MP)? if single 680 is enough for 4k for you. highly doubt you are playing high/max setting much less any msaa.

please post a youtube video showing bf3 with that single 680 on that 4k display on high/max setting with 2xmsaa. love to see the avg fps and min fps.
 

zebrax2

Senior member
Nov 18, 2007
973
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Does this mean we are supposed to buy 4K screens so the UI can look nicer?

Why not? People upgrade their GPUs all the time to play better looking games so why not upgrade your monitor so that your game could look better at very little performance loss.

You also don't usually use the your monitor for gaming only do you?
 

monster88

Member
Oct 30, 2012
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And textures still meant for 1080p gaming and 1 GB cards in those games. Roll in some 4k suitable texturing and even that quad Titan would scream to stay in double digit frame rates.

exactly. i'm playing crysis 2 with maldo 4.0 (4k textures) and at 4k resolution, and the game is completely rapping the vram in my 3gb 7970's topping out at 3.1 gb. 4 gb will be the best route to go for future games with such high res textures. 3 gb is just barely cutting it.
 
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monster88

Member
Oct 30, 2012
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Now that SMAA has come out there is no longer the need to do use SSAA and the huge memory footprint it needs, you can make use of all those extra shader cores to get pretty much the same quality.

Watch the 2nd half of the video I linked to and you'll see what I mean.

same quality? not a chance in hell.
 

UaVaj

Golden Member
Nov 16, 2012
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trisli titan could bearly get it done right - let alone a single 7970 or a single 680. lmfao.

until all you single gpu 4k gamer post solid youtube video evidence.

gonna call it BS and chill out from this this thread. until then. have fun convincing yourself it is all that!
 

Lavans

Member
Sep 21, 2010
139
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lavans. which display are you currently rendering 4k (8.2MP)? if single 680 is enough for 4k for you. highly doubt you are playing high/max setting much less any msaa.

please post a youtube video showing bf3 with that single 680 on that 4k display on high/max setting with 2xmsaa. love to see the avg fps and min fps.

My displays are 3x Acer H233H and 1x Vizio E421VO.

I don't have a youtube video of BF3 at 4k, nor do I have any desire of making one. BF3 has already been benched on a single GTX680 @ 4k on both high and ultra presets.

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2012/6/18/the-4k-graphics-card-shootout.aspx
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
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My displays are 3x Acer H233H and 1x Vizio E421VO.

I don't have a youtube video of BF3 at 4k, nor do I have any desire of making one. BF3 has already been benched on a single GTX680 @ 4k on both high and ultra presets.

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2012/6/18/the-4k-graphics-card-shootout.aspx

Those benchmarks basically show that high and ultra settings are not playable. For some, high might be barely playable, though I'd think medium settings would likely be enough.
 

Lavans

Member
Sep 21, 2010
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Those benchmarks basically show that high and ultra settings are not playable. For some, high might be barely playable, though I'd think medium settings would likely be enough.

~30fps is playable for me. IMHO, anything over 45 is a waste of hardware potential. Also, not all games are as graphically intensive as BF3, and not all future games will be either. By the time BF3 quality graphics becomes standard, or at least common with high profile games, we'll have cards that are twice the power, if not three times the power, of a single GTX680. Using one game to set an example of single card performance at 4k resolution does not paint a proper picture.
 

PrincessFrosty

Platinum Member
Feb 13, 2008
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www.frostyhacks.blogspot.com
This is a bit different as the jump to 3840x2160 is an epic one in comparison to any previous jump. Likewise, in the far future, the jump from 4k to 8k will be far greater than the jump to 4k.

On an absolute scale it's bigger sure.

But on a relative scale, 3840x2160 is only twice the resolution of 2560x1440, which is twice the resolution of 1920x1080, which is twice the resolution of 1280x720 etc etc...

This is nothing new, when 1080p came out it was the same kind of magnitude increase from 720p, technology does this all the time, HDD space, CPU speed, RAM size, they mostly all double in speed every X years leading to exponential growth
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
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~30fps is playable for me. IMHO, anything over 45 is a waste of hardware potential. Also, not all games are as graphically intensive as BF3, and not all future games will be either. By the time BF3 quality graphics becomes standard, or at least common with high profile games, we'll have cards that are twice the power, if not three times the power, of a single GTX680. Using one game to set an example of single card performance at 4k resolution does not paint a proper picture.

I don't consider 30 FPS playable, especially when talking about average, where the lows are much lower, I'd think for most people 40 FPS is about the lowest average that is playable.

That said, for myself, 60 FPS is the minimum average I play a game at. 80 FPS or higher is ideal. I get simulator sickness until I average over 80 FPS, though 60 FPS is not bad, as it takes 30-60 minutes before I start to feel nausea at that rate.
 

Lavans

Member
Sep 21, 2010
139
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On an absolute scale it's bigger sure.

But on a relative scale, 3840x2160 is only twice the resolution of 2560x1440, which is twice the resolution of 1920x1080, which is twice the resolution of 1280x720 etc etc...

This is nothing new, when 1080p came out it was the same kind of magnitude increase from 720p, technology does this all the time, HDD space, CPU speed, RAM size, they mostly all double in speed every X years leading to exponential growth

Except 1080 didn't instantly jump from 720. Most people were gaming at 1280x1024, if not 1680x1050, just a year or two prior to 1080 taking the scene. In fact, I remember playing Half Life, Unreal Tournament, Counter Strike, Lineage 2, and World of Warcraft at 1920x1440 on my old radeon 9800 Pro back in early 2000 on a 21" CRT.
 

Lavans

Member
Sep 21, 2010
139
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I don't consider 30 FPS playable, especially when talking about average, where the lows are much lower, I'd think for most people 40 FPS is about the lowest average that is playable.

That said, for myself, 60 FPS is the minimum average I play a game at. 80 FPS or higher is ideal. I get simulator sickness until I average over 80 FPS, though 60 FPS is not bad, as it takes 30-60 minutes before I start to feel nausea at that rate.

Fortunately, not everyone shares your opinion about 30 fps playability. But that's not the real issue here. Most game developers won't, or can't, invest the money required for graphics on or above the graphical standard that BF3 brings to the table. The games that do have those level of graphics simply need small tweaks and a slight overclock if the user desires more FPS. In fact, setting BF3 to high, but lowering the AO to SSAO or disabling it entirely, while overclocking the card by about 100-150mhz yeilds a nice jump in performance while maintaining a good portion of the graphical quality presented on the standard high preset. At 4k, ambient occlusion has a performance hit as big as MSAA, if not bigger.

I certainly hope your monitor is capable of an 80hz refresh rate or higher when you're being insistent on pushing beyond 60fps.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
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Most tech sites tend to share my opinion that 30 FPS average is not playable, or "barely playable". I also realize I have much higher requirements than most, which is why I mentioned 40 FPS as what most people consider playable, and seems to be shared by most review sites.

I'm also not so stuck with idea that you must play things at maxed settings for it to be good. So I still consider the 680/7970 playable on the 4k screen, but I'd never do it at high or ultra based on those benchmarks. I'd attempt medium and see how that goes.
 

Lavans

Member
Sep 21, 2010
139
0
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Most tech sites tend to share my opinion that 30 FPS average is not playable, or "barely playable". I also realize I have much higher requirements than most, which is why I mentioned 40 FPS as what most people consider playable, and seems to be shared by most review sites.

I'm also not so stuck with idea that you must play things at maxed settings for it to be good. So I still consider the 680/7970 playable on the 4k screen, but I'd never do it at high or ultra based on those benchmarks. I'd attempt medium and see how that goes.

Most tech sites also cater to the PC enthusiast. However, on this token, I'd like to cite a statement made in the 4k review of BF3 on a 7970/680.

Running Battlefield 3 at High settings at 4K resolution, the HD 7970 got an average FPS of 33 FPS with a minimum of 26 and a maximum of 45. At this resolution and these settings, there was absolutely no noticeable lag and the game played like butter. The GTX 680 didn't do much worse with an average frame rate of 30 FPS and a maximum of 45 and a minimum of 18. This also played smoothly for the most part, but there were a few instances where a short bout of lag could be noticed.

30fps can appear remarkably smooth as long as the frame latency/variance is relatively low, which isn't difficult to do. If looking at a 30fps source makes you nauseous, then you probably hate playing console games or watching movies/youtube. This is something that is extremely important to consider, since true 4k displays generally have a refresh rate of 30hz. Even if you had a video card that could push 100fps at 4k, it wouldn't make any difference if your refresh can't go that high.
 
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