5,000% Price Increase For Daraprim

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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Pharma hasn't duped me into anything. I don't take prescription drugs and never have. Maybe that is the big problem in society; believing that you need some sort of drugs to survive?

Ah, so the patients are the problem. Not a hedge fund guy buying a drug and jacking up the price 5000%. Yep, you aren't duped at all, it's pretty convincing.
 
Dec 10, 2005
24,457
7,393
136
I get your point, but our patent system is a little out of whack. They have 50 years to jew you on the price of a drug before competition can swoop in.

What if they made the patent (specifically for drugs) be good for only, say, 5 years. That is 5 years you can milk your profits dry on helpless people. After that, generics can swoop in and take a piece.

What does that do? It gives drive to keep being within those 5 year intervals (hence, R&D for the next drug). When you have a 50 year patent, you can milk that teet dry, and when those 50 years are up pay generic companies a few hundred mill to keep their generic equivalent from coming out for another 20 years.

They don't have fifty years on the patent. Drug patents last for 20 years, but they are filed in early development stages, leaving between 8 to 10 years where it is actually on the market making money.
 

alcoholbob

Diamond Member
May 24, 2005
6,271
323
126
No way in hell is the government going to go after the patients legally. It would be horrible PR for them, especially when the US manufacturer is actively ripping off sick people. No jury would convict a dying person just trying not to get ripped off. But even if they did in some bizarre scenario, it's not a controlled substance, so it would be a slap on the wrist.
So the worst that will happen is it will get seized at customs with near zero probability, if ordered for personal use. But 50x cost differential is more than enough to offset that risk. Not telling anyone what to do or not to do, but math is math. And don't tell me it would be "theft" or whatever bullshit you fell for.

Well I dunno about compassionate government officials...I mean you can get mandatory prison time just fishing off the coast and you happen to bring a lobster that's 1/4 of an inch too short. The federal register is like 500,000 pages long and you'd be surprised how serious government prosecutors are about applying the letter of the law and could care less about the moral implications of their actions.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Well I dunno about compassionate government officials...I mean you can get mandatory prison time just fishing off the coast and you happen to bring a lobster that's 1/4 of an inch too short. The federal register is like 500,000 pages long and you'd be surprised how serious government prosecutors could care less about the moral implications of their actions.

Prosecutors don't want to eat PR shit only to have a jury acquit and question their sanity. Drug companies don't want to bring attention to their rip offs either. They don't even prosecute erection pills, you think they are going to go after dying patients with AIDS? No chance. How many patients have been prosecuted for importing non-controlled drugs? What is the penalty if it's for personal use and substance is not controlled?

BTW, even the old price was a rip off. A quick search showed generics of these are selling for pennies a pill.

If you are a stickler for the rules, you can always just take a trip to Canada or Mexico in person for a lot less than a full treatment cost would be here.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,848
13,784
146
I get your point, but our patent system is a little out of whack. They have 50 years to *** you on the price of a drug before competition can swoop in.

What if they made the patent (specifically for drugs) be good for only, say, 5 years. That is 5 years you can milk your profits dry on helpless people. After that, generics can swoop in and take a piece.

What does that do? It gives drive to keep being within those 5 year intervals (hence, R&D for the next drug). When you have a 50 year patent, you can milk that teet dry, and when those 50 years are up pay generic companies a few hundred mill to keep their generic equivalent from coming out for another 20 years.



Interesting choice of words you use there. Care to explain?
This
 
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KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
29,701
43,969
136
i see the pc police have found this thread
 
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Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
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Sure, I had this crazy thing called a typo. I know. Crazy right?

Hey - next time you come around though, make sure to put on your siren.
https://youtu.be/Dit5s3Lntus?t=58s

Don't forget to do your SJW pledge song too!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDKYhkyL58Q

Admittedly I've heard that phrase used far more often by Jewish guys than non Jews. I'm having trouble understanding how you trained auto correct to insert Jew when you type screw.
Back to topic, its simply wrong to manipulate a market that involves medication to make a huge profit. I hope this guy gets investigated for his business practices.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
Well OP, here's a solution for you. If you think owning a drug company is such a slam dunk, do it yourself. You seem to believe that R&D is easy and getting a drug approved is a cakewalk, so there's nothing preventing you from doing it. Gather up a few scientists, invest a few billion into R&D and testing and if you're lucky in 10 short years maybe you'll have a competitor for Daraprim. Then you can sell it for whatever you like to prove how altruistic you are.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Well OP, here's a solution for you. If you think owning a drug company is such a slam dunk, do it yourself. You seem to believe that R&D is easy and getting a drug approved is a cakewalk, so there's nothing preventing you from doing it. Gather up a few scientists, invest a few billion into R&D and testing and if you're lucky in 10 short years maybe you'll have a competitor for Daraprim. Then you can sell it for whatever you like to prove how altruistic you are.

The drug was released in 1953. It's widely availabile for pennies around the world. This is the case of a financier gaming the US drug system to rip off Americans, not some heroic R&D development. If you want to be a sucker and defend him, go ahead, but you are a sucker.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
6
81
I get your point, but our patent system is a little out of whack. They have 50 years to *** you on the price of a drug before competition can swoop in.

What if they made the patent (specifically for drugs) be good for only, say, 5 years. That is 5 years you can milk your profits dry on helpless people. After that, generics can swoop in and take a piece.

What does that do? It gives drive to keep being within those 5 year intervals (hence, R&D for the next drug). When you have a 50 year patent, you can milk that teet dry, and when those 50 years are up pay generic companies a few hundred mill to keep their generic equivalent from coming out for another 20 years.
"Jew" is not a verb, and the usage is especially offensive in this context, as it implies that doing something as reprehensible as Martin Shkreli (the founder of the company which has followed this buy-and-jack-up-the-price-of-lifesaving-drugs "strategy" before) - a non-Jew - has done is somehow a "Jewish thing."
 
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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1408376?viewType=Print&viewClass=Print&
My understanding is basically it's an off patent generic drug, but that company for the time being has cornered the market on manufacturing it, simply because no foreign manufacturer has bothered getting US FDA approval up till now. By the time one does, at $50K per treatment, this scumbag, with cheers of useful idiots on this forum, would have ripped off enough patients to make back his purchase price. Unless people are smart and just import the foreign generic themselves.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
The drug was released in 1953. It's widely availabile for pennies around the world. This is the case of a financier gaming the US drug system to rip off Americans, not some heroic R&D development. If you want to be a sucker and defend him, go ahead, but you are a sucker.

Show me on this doll where the rich person touched you.

If you object to the way this worked out then you fix the system, not the guy who learned how to use it legally to his advantage. The purpose of business is to make money. Without that there's no incentive to invest billions into developing a new drug that might never work or get approved.

The problem with all you 20/20 hindsight whiners is that you're long on complaints and completely lacking in practical ideas. Rather than kvetching about what happened, use your infinite wisdom and come up with a solution. How do you convince companies to go down the long, winding and incredibly expensive, risk-filled road from idea to development to approval without the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Show me on this doll where the rich person touched you.

If you object to the way this worked out then you fix the system, not the guy who learned how to use it legally to his advantage. The purpose of business is to make money. Without that there's no incentive to invest billions into developing a new drug that might never work or get approved.

The problem with all you 20/20 hindsight whiners is that you're long on complaints and completely lacking in practical ideas. Rather than kvetching about what happened, use your infinite wisdom and come up with a solution. How do you convince companies to go down the long, winding and incredibly expensive, risk-filled road from idea to development to approval without the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow?

He bought a drug developed in 1953, and jacked up the price on it 50 fold. That is all. All this other stuff you are spewing about risk filled roads from idea to development is just big pharma propaganda used to justify ripping off Americans.
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,198
4
76
He bought a drug developed in 1953, and jacked up the price on it 50 fold. That is all. All this other stuff you are spewing about risk filled roads from idea to development is just big pharma propaganda used to justify ripping off Americans.

It's so sad how people have this knee jerk reaction to defend the big pharma companies. Yes, it costs a lot of money to make a drug and get it approved, but this company didn't do any of that. It reminds me of the company with the Hep C cure. Did they discover it? Nope. Did they do the testing and get it approved? Nope. Did they buy the company that did and jack the price up to $100k per treatment? They sure did!
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
The great thing about capitalism is that anyone is free to develop a drug that provides the same relief and sell it at less then cost.

Why hasn't anyone in here come up with such a drug yet? Peeps are waiting.

Government has made it prohibitively expensive, arguably for good reason, so you can't necessarily blame this on Capitalism. In our global trade economy true capitalism would allow us to purchase much cheaper versions of the drugs from India and other countries but the big lobbyists have made sure that we can't do that.

The drug market in the US is far from an example of capitalism.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Let's say a power utility jacked up prices 50 fold. The same crew of apologists would be saying, what are you complaining about, just build your own power plant if you think it's so easy. Health care should be treated as a public utility, and regulated just as tightly.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,329
126
No way in hell is the government going to go after the patients legally. It would be horrible PR for them, especially when the US manufacturer is actively ripping off sick people. No jury would convict a dying person just trying not to get ripped off. But even if they did in some bizarre scenario, it's not a controlled substance, so it would be a slap on the wrist.
So the worst that will happen is it will get seized at customs with near zero probability, if ordered for personal use. But 50x cost differential is more than enough to offset that risk. Not telling anyone what to do or not to do, but math is math. And don't tell me it would be "theft" or whatever bullshit you fell for.

I know people who get controlled substances (they are actually prescribed them) for much cheaper overseas. Even with controlled substances if it gets caught in customs the only thing that happens is you get a "love letter" from customs. Basically a letter saying they seized a package that was being sent to you. Some of the places they order from will even reship it for free if you send them a copy of the "love letter" but even if you lost 1 out of 10, depending on the drug/s at least, you still come out way cheaper.
 
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