Question 5,000 Sqft home, best router/ap

tnatt

Junior Member
Apr 26, 2023
2
0
6
Hello Everyone, Looking for some advice. I have a 5000 sqft home, it has cat 5 wiring throughout and gigabit internet through Fios.

I'd like to replace my Eero system with something more stable, it doesn't play well with our phones, is miserable outside, and since the house is hard wired have no need for mesh.

I was looking into the Ubiquiti Dream Router + the Ubiquit long range indoor/outdoor access points but it looks like the dream router won't allow me to take full advantage of the gigabit internet. Is that true, if so, what would folks recommend?

In order of importance:
- Signal strength/stability both inside and in our 1/2 acre backyard
- Speed
- Ease of setup
- Cost (anything under $1k is fine, less better of course but the other priorities are more important)

Any help would be appreciated
 

Tech Junky

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2022
3,534
1,188
106
I use Zyxel because it's a good price and performance combo. With the nwa210ax I have corner to corner coverage in 1300sq ft and lan speed of 1.5gbps using the Intel ax411 card in my laptop. I'm not sure what they're rated for on max area but, I'd imagine 2 of them would cover you pretty well. For outdoors maybe get a 3rd and position it close to the window where you want coverage. They're typically $150 on Amazon. To get these speeds though you'll need 2.5gbps back to the router. Otherwise they'll be just shy of gigabit. There are newer models though as well but, you trade off certain things for different options.

The first thing to do though is download WiFi analyzer on your phone to check which channels are in use and signal strength.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,063
437
126
Well first thing is that for something like this, you want to separate things and not use an all-in-one type device. You really want your own dedicated router/firewall, probably a real network switch (so you can supply network to all the drops in the home), and wireless access points to handle your wireless needs.

So lets talk router/firewall. In my eyes, there are really only a couple choices, pfSense or OPNsense. Personally I am using pfSense because I use the pfBlockerNG plugin which is probably the most powerful and useful firewall system you will find for protecting your home network, monitoring both incoming and outgoing data, and blocking based on industry standard blacklists (configurable by you). A lot of people know and are familiar with things like having your own DNS server like PiHole to stop ads and adware, think of pfBlockerNG as taking it to another level. Malware, spyware, and viruses/worms can get around PiHole by simply encoding the IP addresses into their code so that they do not need to do a DNS lookup (and get dropped by a pihole). That same method won't work on pfBlockerNG as not only is it dropping the DNS lookups like pihole, it also places firewall/routing rules in place to prevent the traffic from going in or out to the sites' IP addresses, blocking all methods of communication. Both of these can be run either on a ready made appliances from the main providers or they can be downloaded and run on your own hardware (as a virtual machine, or dedicated computer). I personally run on a Dell SFF 9020 which I picked up cheap used/off-lease and tossed in a small SSD and a compatible network card (in my case I used a Mellanox ConnectX-3 VPI dual port 40/56 gbps card that I connect to my switch at 40gbps and am using a router-on-a-stick design right now, but I could make it a normal router by connecting the other port, however the PCIe bus can not handle sending that much data to the card for both ports to be active at 40gbps, so it would limp to about 28gbps both ports used if I remember correctly). Total cost about $250 at the time if you don't mind buying used.

You sound like you really a hooked on the ubiquiti systems. I mean, they are a nice solid interface, but are really outclassed by other hardware at much cheaper prices (think of them as the Apple of network gear). But you can still go with them for their access points. You will probably need a minimum of 2 and probably closer to 4 or 5 if you want full coverage of everywhere in the house at the highest speed and your backyard (that might be difficult depending on the walls of your home and/or the ability to place an access point near a larger window facing your backyard). I personally have a smaller house, and am using just a single wifi router (a Netgear Nighthawk R9000) that I flashed with DD-WRT and put into access point mode. The reason I went for this is that it supports connecting at 10gbps with a SFP+ port and allows me to run multiple VAP (virtual access points, which is what the "guest network" is on your typical home router, this way I can separate the internet of things devices (like wifi controlled lights, my smart hub that connects to zigbee and zwave devices, etc) from my production network(s) and guest network(s) for added security and isolation).

For network switch, well, you are pretty much limited to gigabit with CAT5. Personally I like a fully managed L3 switch somewhere. To keep it cheap you can get a Brocade ICX6450, but they are true enterprise gear. While they have a web-interface, you really need to know the console for some things, especially initial setup. The console command line interface is running FastIron OS, which is 90-95% similar to CISCO IOS, so there are lots of help out there (youtube videos, etc), but you will need to do some work. For not wanting to do work, get a non-managed dumb switch, but you won't be able to setup and configure VLANs for networking segmentation or routing rules, access control rules, etc., for security...
 

tnatt

Junior Member
Apr 26, 2023
2
0
6
Well first thing is that for something like this, you want to separate things and not use an all-in-one type device. You really want your own dedicated router/firewall, probably a real network switch (so you can supply network to all the drops in the home), and wireless access points to handle your wireless needs.

So lets talk router/firewall. In my eyes, there are really only a couple choices, pfSense or OPNsense. Personally I am using pfSense because I use the pfBlockerNG plugin which is probably the most powerful and useful firewall system you will find for protecting your home network, monitoring both incoming and outgoing data, and blocking based on industry standard blacklists (configurable by you). A lot of people know and are familiar with things like having your own DNS server like PiHole to stop ads and adware, think of pfBlockerNG as taking it to another level. Malware, spyware, and viruses/worms can get around PiHole by simply encoding the IP addresses into their code so that they do not need to do a DNS lookup (and get dropped by a pihole). That same method won't work on pfBlockerNG as not only is it dropping the DNS lookups like pihole, it also places firewall/routing rules in place to prevent the traffic from going in or out to the sites' IP addresses, blocking all methods of communication. Both of these can be run either on a ready made appliances from the main providers or they can be downloaded and run on your own hardware (as a virtual machine, or dedicated computer). I personally run on a Dell SFF 9020 which I picked up cheap used/off-lease and tossed in a small SSD and a compatible network card (in my case I used a Mellanox ConnectX-3 VPI dual port 40/56 gbps card that I connect to my switch at 40gbps and am using a router-on-a-stick design right now, but I could make it a normal router by connecting the other port, however the PCIe bus can not handle sending that much data to the card for both ports to be active at 40gbps, so it would limp to about 28gbps both ports used if I remember correctly). Total cost about $250 at the time if you don't mind buying used.

You sound like you really a hooked on the ubiquiti systems. I mean, they are a nice solid interface, but are really outclassed by other hardware at much cheaper prices (think of them as the Apple of network gear). But you can still go with them for their access points. You will probably need a minimum of 2 and probably closer to 4 or 5 if you want full coverage of everywhere in the house at the highest speed and your backyard (that might be difficult depending on the walls of your home and/or the ability to place an access point near a larger window facing your backyard). I personally have a smaller house, and am using just a single wifi router (a Netgear Nighthawk R9000) that I flashed with DD-WRT and put into access point mode. The reason I went for this is that it supports connecting at 10gbps with a SFP+ port and allows me to run multiple VAP (virtual access points, which is what the "guest network" is on your typical home router, this way I can separate the internet of things devices (like wifi controlled lights, my smart hub that connects to zigbee and zwave devices, etc) from my production network(s) and guest network(s) for added security and isolation).

For network switch, well, you are pretty much limited to gigabit with CAT5. Personally I like a fully managed L3 switch somewhere. To keep it cheap you can get a Brocade ICX6450, but they are true enterprise gear. While they have a web-interface, you really need to know the console for some things, especially initial setup. The console command line interface is running FastIron OS, which is 90-95% similar to CISCO IOS, so there are lots of help out there (youtube videos, etc), but you will need to do some work. For not wanting to do work, get a non-managed dumb switch, but you won't be able to setup and configure VLANs for networking segmentation or routing rules, access control rules, etc., for security...
Thank you for the in depth response. I'll take a look about building my own firewall/router- I have a few extra PCs purchased within the last 5 years which seem like they would be up for the task.

Not hooked on ubiquiti, but it did seem like a good mix between consumer ease of use, with stability or commercial (my office uses it and we've never had issues).

Great callout on the impact of the Cat 5 cables, I guess without rewiring some of the core components I'll be stuck to gigabit speeds regardless. I could fix that for some of the access points but not all (without turning this into a much bigger project).

The managed network switch sounds above my skill grade.


One question for you:
You mentioned you are running a Nighthawk 9000.

How would that flashed with DD-WRT combined with a few accesspoints compare to ubiquiti or the eero I have now?
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,063
437
126
Well the R9000 is an older Wifi-5, but like I said, I use it because of DD-WRT (there is only experimental support for Wifi-6 routers with OpenWRT, and no support yet for them in DD-WRT). That said, I don't think there are many wifi access points with SFP+ connections for 10gbps support, either, so that is probably one of the big things that it does over the ubiquiti or eero accesspoints. As DD-WRT, the router is also running linux, which allows me to do almost complete customization, which is how I have WAPs for my IoT devices, etc. The R9000 also has 3 separate radios, so I can dedicate different radios to different duties to isolate network services (so I don't have a 5GHz radio sharing 802.11a/n/ac to support any A, N, or AC networks all the while that cuts the speed of the network to run at the slowest common denominator, so even though it supports AC devices, it won't run faster than what A, or N can support). So I have a 5GHz AC-only network and a 5GHz A/N network, and a 2.4GHz b/g/n/ac for legacy stuff. All of those have a production net, IoT net, and guest network, so in reality, if you were to scan at my home you would see 9 networks coming from just this one access point, all VLAN tagged on 3 VLANs (production, IoT, and guest) and supporting DHCP ranges on each of those ranges. With those firewall rules to prevent IoT and guest VLANs from communicating to the management of the R9000, and the VLANs passed over to my network switch over the SFP+ port with ACL rules to prevent IoT and Guest from communicating to the other VLANs. That is the thing that the ubiquiti or eero's can't do.
 
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