50% off EAS Myoplex, MetRx, ProLab whey, Ironman Bars $0.50, etc.

[Hoeboy]

been about 2 weeks and i just got my order. they shipped everything but the protein powder that i ordered. o wells. we'll see how long it'll take them to finally ship the thing that i really wanted.

 

[cremefilled]

elSmoko, IMO www.testosterone.net is the best bodybuilding magazine around, online or print. It is free, and every single back issue is available online. Start reading it, and try some back searches for something like "soy protein" (which they definitely don't recommend). It takes some time to get clued in to things, like any pursuit, but that's the lowest-b.s. information outlet in the industry. Still, keep in mind that they are trying to sell you supplements...

misc.fitness.weights is the Usenet group to follow. Of course, that is an open bazaar of diverging opinions, so you have to know how to read intelligently. Use deja.com/usenet to do searches.

 

[elSmoko]

cremefilled, WhiteStuph,
thanks for your responses. I'm reading up on testosterone.net and I think I'm going to start doing whey... a bit more research first. I think I've got to decide on a better program for weigh lifting before I concern myself with the protein suppliments. That site makes soy sound weak, so I'm going to avoid it for now. I'll update you guys with results

- ElSmoko

 

[Hoeboy]

i went out and bought twinlab meal replacement thingie. one packet is 300 calories and 47g of whey protein. i also bought some whey protein supplement. one scoop is 20g of protein. i mixed it all in a blender with some creatine and some milk and it came out thicker than my other protein drinks. i had trouble gulping it down and felt like throwing up. i know this is the kind of stuff i want in terms of calories and protein but is there anyway to make this taste a bit better and make it go down a little bit smoother?

 

[cremefilled]

Twinlabs makes kind of nasty tasting MRPs, IMO. You're right--they are too thick to start with, and that's before adding in all the other stuff that you do. Try it with just water instead of milk, as milk protein makes drinks "foamy." (Milk is used as a thickener in cooking--e.g., in puddings.) MRPs don't necessarily taste great with additional protein either--they begin to taste like cake mix.

Hope that helps, and keep in mind that Twin makes probably the thickest MRPs, so another brand might work better. (One that is definitely not thick is Champion's Nutrimet.)

 

[Hoeboy]

ah too late now. i was trying to save 5 bux. i was about to buy METRx o wells. no pain no gain.

 

[WhiteStuph]

actually, i was wondering if there was a way to avoid all the foaminess in my protein drinks.. no matter what i use (usually OJ + protein + creatine), sometimes water + protein.... my drinks are always foamy and i feel like i'm wasting a lot of protein sitting in that foam, because it's completely undrinkable.. any ideas?

 

[Hoeboy]

yeah and those foam, when they thicken, are a b*tch to clean

 

[tboner]

"no matter what i use (usually OJ + protein + creatine), sometimes water + protein.... my drinks are always foamy"


Well you did not say how you are mixing them, but if you use a shaker, you can minimize foaming but NOT shaking your drink into pulp. You can also wait until the foam has settled (takes a long time) or you use another product that does not foam up (MYOPLEX and DESIGNER PROTEIN have never foamed up on me, well maybe for a second or two but that don`t count).

 

[elSmoko]

so I ended up buying some designer whey protein for way too much money...
I've been working out thrice a week (arms/back, chest/shoulders, legs/abs) and consuming a oj shake of it directly after I drop the weights, as someone suggested. I started this week, so i've had 3 workouts behind me. what i need to know is what should I do about lunch (due to my schedule, when I'm done working out, Its about 12, and I'm hungry for some tuna ;P )... and how often do I consume the stuff? everyday, or only those 3 days per week that I work out? thanks for your input guys and gals

- ElSmoko

 

[billandopus]

elSmoko, I applaud you in working out.

Please check out these resources for info about anything working out.

On Usenet: misc.fitness.weights An excellent, excellent newsgroup. I'd go there first for any questions. You've got the pros there.

Check out the MFW FAQ which is very good too.

Here

As for you questions i'll try and answer them here:



<< consuming a oj shake of it directly after I drop the weights >>



An oj shake? What's that?

A smart way of ingesting your protein and kcals/nutrition is to have your protein shake ready to gulp down pretty much right after you finish working out. On your way to the car ... whatever.

Actually, if you intend on using Creatine eventually then I would suggest on workout days to have a serving of Creatine 1 hour before working out, at the end of your workout and then wait 15-20 minutes or so and then down a shake and then 15-20 mins later have a full meal. Something to that effect. You are doing three things here. You are introducing the Creatine during times of high absorption and bodily needs. Same with the protein shake after working out. Then the meal tops it off with a general nutritional profile a short time afterwards.

Getting into the gym and working out is one thing. But to do it well is to be prepared. Being prepared sucks if you are lazy or not motivated ... like I am at this moment with a wife and kid.

What I did for years was have this lifestyle.

During the nighttime I would make enough protein drinks to last me a day or two. I would use my powder, mix in a blender with water (not milk for me because I want to stay away from the extra calories and sugars and carbs). Instead I would mix in maybe 1/8 chocolate milk of the total volume to make it taste nice and not nasty.

Don't worry about chocolate milk. For working out it's fine and it's profile is similar to regular milk. If you are in a dieting phase I would cut the milk and just use h20.

I have Nalgene bottles that you can get at any decent outdoor store. I use either the half liter or the 1.5 liter bottles. They are very scum resistant and that's important because over time your protein bottle can get very gross. Especially if you are using milk fluids to mix.

I put the protein drink in the Nalgene bottles in the fridge. I usually worked out it the morning or right after work in the afternoon. I take my bottle to the gym and consume right after working out. When I get home and shower and all that then dinner is ready and that's when I consume my regular meal.

For the day I usually have a shake with breakfast or for a coffee break. I have lunch and if I have any left over not earmarked for working out or if it's not a workout day i'll have another one in the afternoon. I do my workout thing and then I have another shake let's say around 8-8:30 or so. Last thing I eat is a shake. Don't get into the habit of consuming high glycemic index foods like breads and all that - especially before bedtime. It's a double whammy because it's high in carbs which fills up your body when you don't need it - converts into fat. Also, the high glycemic index ensures a higher propensity to fat conversion than normal. When you go to sleep you don't need the extra energy. Snacking at night while nice to do is not good for you if you want to look like those guys in the magazines ... unless you have a particular bodytype or metabolism.

You should always keep your protein relatively high and your total caloric intake a bit higher than your maintenance levels. Considering that you beginning to work out that if you are consistent (ie: you're still working out after one to two months) your metabolic fire will increase and you will need to be more consistent with your intake and the quality of your intake.

You can tone it down on non-workout days but you still have to make sure that you are consuming enough. With regards to Creatine some people just take it on workout days. That's fine. But if you are consistent with your diet then that will do you more good than you realize.

The whole working out process to get your body stronger and better looking is like math or physics.

You have to be consistent and keep up with it otherwise you won't do well. It's all cumulative. Working out for a couple of weeks and then falling off the wagon for another couple of weeks won't help. Here and there workouts will just keep your body guessing and sore as heck. If you fall into this trap then you either have to shape up or do something else with your time ... like concentrating with school. I probably shouldn't say that because any kind of exercise is good for you. All i'm saying is that if you want to progress with working out then you have to keep at it.

Sorry about the lecture. Hope this helps and you can email me if you have any other questions.

Bill

 

[cremefilled]

elSmoko, here is a _great_ article on general bodybuilding nutrition:
mesomorphosis

I highly recommend looking through the rest of the site as well.

Bill_n_Opus, thanks for your very lengthy and thoughtful reply. This forum, despite its reputation to scared newbies, is full of helpful people.

 

[billandopus]

Thanks cremefilled, I actually read my post again. I wrote it on the fly and didn't really preview it. Actually, it's got some good ideas but it's kind of meandering. Hope there's something people can derive from it.

I should walk the walk cuz i'm getting fat as heck from my normal self. The wife is starting to complain. Oops!

 

[elSmoko]

yes thank you both... bill_n_opus, I'm trying to disect all the information (often conflicting) that I've read and heard. I was told that you should drink milk because the amino acids constrict your muscles and make you less able to finish those harder final reps because your muscles get too tight. What i've been doing is mixing orange Juice and the designer protein, and drinking it right after I get back from the gym. When I get more time and get used to this routine, I'll start bringing it in a bottle so I can drink it right after I drop the weights. I've been working out those 3 different muscle groupings rotating every second day... I don't know if I should step it up or what. So you say I should be drinking the protein shakes three times a day? Should I be drinking it on days off also?
cremefilled, I'm reading this article now, it seems informative. thanks buddy!
heres to the invention of the bench press

- ElSmoko

 

[billandopus]

Well, it really depends on a few things. First off, are you going to be consistent in your workouts and are you serious? If you are then you should really make sure that you are getting in enough protein and general calories to enable your body to maintain a general anabolic state. That is - building of muscle mass.

If your bodily needs are more than what you give it then your body has to derive some energy from somewhere and unfortunately the first place that your body gets energy is through the catabolization of muscle tissue.

Given this concept you should determine what your caloric needs are given your body type (meso/endo/ectomorph) Generally you should consume anywhere from .8 to 1.5 grams of protein per pound of lean bodyweight as a general rule. Probably higher for some individuals but not less for most actively lifting men. So, if you weigh 200lbs and your lean muscle mass is say, 150lbs then you should consume at least 150 grams of protein per day for maintenance and for building. You should experiment to find out your optimum balance is.

You should also &quot;eat&quot; or spread out your meals to 5-6 times a day in order to be in postive nitrogen balance. It's been awhile since I talked about nitrogen balance but it's important and I would advise you to look it up/search for it. I'd be talking out the side of my neck so I won't go there if I can't remember the finer points.

So, the main concept is this:

Make sure you eat enough! and smart enough! (not all at one sitting and not McDonalds all the time)

The secondary concept is this:

On workout days make sure you manipulate your consumption of calories and protein to reflect a workout day. ie: that means higher intake. Remember what we talked about earlier about taking protein and calories right after a workout and such? That's what i'm talking about.

On non-workout days you don't have to go nuts on protein drinks and such but as long as you maintain more than required cal levels then you are okay.

Additionally, generally speaking: it is better to have a consistently higher level of protein consumption/intake rather than the quality of protein taken. That is: some people are snobs about what kind of powders they take and all that. Myoplex this and Prolab that. It's really not what brand but how much you take on a consistent basis that will make the most difference to your body. Quality of protein nowadays in powders are very high. Then you are really looking for bang for the buck and low sugars/carb formulations. Taste as well, of course.

So, on workout days let's say that you lift in the morning, then i'd do something like this:

-shake right after waking up (thermogenics if you want to buzz you for lifting)
-wait an hour or so
-workout(don't forget to warmup and then stretch afterwards)
-then another shake right after lifting
-get home from gym and make breakfast
-go to school, work, whatever
-lunch
-shake in afternoon
-dinner
-shake in evening let's say 8pm or so
-sleep lots

So, that's what ... four shakes? That should top you over 160grams of protein right there.

This may be an extreme example for your body type and size ... or maybe not. It's expensive to do this as you will go through powder like mad. Especially if you are lazy and unprepared like myself then you tend to rely on powders for protein ... which is not really a good thing.

However, at the height of my lifting I was 235lbs at 5'7&quot; at maybe 12% BF or maybe even lower. I was consuming lots and lots of calories and protein every day and I was getting sick of making shakes. I couldn't handle the strictness of the lifestyle as I like my junk food and all.

Plus, I have a easily triggered gag reflex which makes protein drink consumption more and more difficult after awhile when you start getting bored with the stuff. Not a good combo.

Enough about me.

To sum up:

Eat more and consume more during workout days.
A bit less on non-workout days but make sure that you spread out the cals and protein.
Get lots of sleep.
If you are using supplements like Creatine, Glutamine, Thermogenics then you have to make sure you manipulate these products properly to get the full benefits from them. Actually, you should make sure you have a good base before touching this stuff - is my belief. Do some research first.
Using techniques like having dry powder (one serving) in a Nalgene bottle ready to add warm water (to mix) and then cold water (to make it easier to wash down) or having serving(s) handy in your school/gym bag will make it easier to maintain a good diet.

What else? Oops, have to go. Hope this helps. Again, any questions you can email me. Good luck.

 

[cremefilled]

elsmoko, as you note, there is lots of conflicting information out there. bill_n_opus knows what he is talking about, and I think I do too, so let me give you some of my own perspective on the protein issue. You will run across a spectrum of beliefs that range from &quot;40-50 g/day satisfies the US RDA and is all you need&quot; all the way up to 500, 700, or even more g/day. I would say that a mainstream, consensus educated bodybuilding perspective is that one gram/day per lb. of bodyweight is sufficient. The scientific literature on the subject that I have seen (and I've read a fair amount) usually comes up with a figure of between 1.4 &amp; 1.7 g/day/kg. bodyweight for athletes (200 lbs.=88 kg). So a 200 lb. weight training athlete might need roughly 140 g of P. Try a websearch under Peter Lemon, as he is probably the world's foremost expert (or at least the most published in peer review journals) on the subject. He agrees with those 1.4/1.7 findings.

Some variables that could change the amount of P needed could include: a need to make a crash weight gain (making a weight goal for football); a teenager who is physically maturing as well as putting on muscle; someone in a detrained condition who is trying to quickly revert back to trained form (it's much easier to &quot;regain&quot; lost muscle than to initially put it on); someone who is &quot;juicing&quot; (not orange juice!) or otherwise consuming anabolic substances (perhaps one of the new topical andro sprays); someone who is risking a high degree of catabolism/muscle breakdown (two-a-day gym splits, football practice, etc.). You get the idea: if you want to put on a bunch of lean weight quickly--which is unfortunately not realistic for most people, at least for extended periods--then by all means, increase protein consumption. Or...if you are 230 lbs. of mostly lean weight at 5'7&quot;, you obviously have some serious muscle mass that needs maintenance (man, was that natural, bill_n_opus!?).

I personally subscribe to the moderate 1.4-1.7g/day/kg. camp, but I think that higher amounts can be beneficial for some people. I agree completely with the comments about spreading out smaller meals throughout the day, and with the importance of keeping the body fed with quality protein throughout the day (e.g., right after waking up and right after a workout).

So, as with everything in life, you've got to weigh the competing arguments, perform your own internal &quot;dialectic,&quot; synthesize the data, and come up with what works well for yourself. I would caution that if you start trying to achieve really high protein levels, the expense, inconvenience, and taste will eventually lead to burnout (been there, done that). All things in moderation. Bodybuilding is something that should be pursued for life, as it is a fantastic form of exercise, probably the best for fighting the onset of time.

Edit: I had mixed up kg. and lb. initially, but it is corrected now.

 

[billandopus]

<< Or...if you are 230 lbs. of mostly lean weight at 5'7&quot;, >>



Yes, it does sound like i'm lying big time doesn't it? Or at least exaggerating ...

I'm looking back at what I wrote and I may be a tiny bit optimistic. At my best I was 227 at 5'7&quot; at around that 12-13 percent BF. Maybe a bit less BF. I wish I know how to post a pic so I could show you. 235 is a bit high but not too far off.

At that time I was eating like a madman. It's amazing how your body can respond to continuous training and proper dieting techniques. I'm very lucky to a certain degree. I inherited a very powerful lower body from my dad's side. People would always ask me what I did for legs and I would say &quot;Nothing ... save for the occassional squats/power sled/sissy squats&quot; I have been teased goodnaturedly for my lower body. When I was a kid somebody told me that I walked like I &quot;had a carrot up my ass&quot; like those bodybuilders do. All my sweatpants (because that's what I mainly wear) have massive holes in the thigh/crotch area because of the constant rubbing they endure. That really sucks. I always have to get them patched and my wife hates doing it.

I also have all the prerequisite stretch marks on my lats and my bis and some on my delts. Those suck as well. Ask the wife. She hates them

Anyways, no steroids though. Can't stand needles and all that crazy stuff. Too expensive too and it wasn't like I was going to compete. Dieting is tough enough to look good in the summer.