Nobody is calling for socialism. Quit being ridiculous. We have a duopoly here and abuses are possible.
How has this thread gone on so long? Who friggin cares that Nvidia makes a good profit? Good for them! That is what makes this country the best in the world.
There are plenty of countries around the world that practice socialism if that is what floats your boat.
We, in the general sense, think we need AMD, to keep competitor's prices from rising too much, which they have been known to do. So, AMD will be able to ride their money losing train right into backruptcy/liquidation, should it come to that. Those with financial interests are hoping that RR can pull them out (or make a good deal selling off parts of AMD, in which they make money back), but the company needs to be able to survive for a few more years, before any major changes he has made, good or ill, can be allowed to play out.Wow poor AMD, says they've been at as much as -36% margins. How do they even keep operating let alone make good cards?
Back on subject please everyone. This is about nvidia profits, not quality of life ranking among nations.
I do believe that nvidia should make good profits, but I would also support government subsidies, or whatever is necessary, to ensure competition and relatively low prices.
LOL, you would support government subsidies for a luxury product? You realize government subsidies come from taxes so the only people getting the subsidy are those who don't pay income tax. Have to love you redistribution of wealth people.
edit: My bad, I see you are from cali.
We, in the general sense, think we need AMD, to keep competitor's prices from rising too much, which they have been known to do. So, AMD will be able to ride their money losing train right into backruptcy/liquidation, should it come to that. Those with financial interests are hoping that RR can pull them out (or make a good deal selling off parts of AMD, in which they make money back), but the company needs to be able to survive for a few more years, before any major changes he has made, good or ill, can be allowed to play out.
Regardless of your political stance, your post is just disgusting. Aside from you completely misinterpreting his post, you resort to broad insults about an entire demographic of people. Tell us more about California. I do understand that old white racist men tend to despise it? Not that i'm implying you're anything like that. I will say you share more in common with FX1 than you realize, resorting to broad insults and rants instead of arguments with any substance.
Can this thread be locked before it goes full P+N status?
If consumers are willing to pay premiums for NV's products, then NV deserves the high profit margins. In my eyes, it seems the trend is more expensive GPUs from both camps in general. $400-500 mid-range with $700-1000 now reserved for flagship cards, or an increase from $250-300 and $500-650 we previously had.
That strikes me as somewhat insane. I remember when the HD4850 512MB was mid-range, and it was released at $200 retail. I paid $150 for mine, BB had a 25% off sale on VisionTek cards, the week before the card was supposed to be released. Some stores got the cards in early, and could be convinced to let you buy them.
I paid $190 ea for my Gigabyte WindForce GTX460 1GB OC cards.
That's the price range that I am comfortable paying. NOT $400-500. That's nuts. If video cards alone are going to cost as much or more than a high-end console, I'll switch to consoles.
And here I see people cheering for nvidia's records breaking margins and $1000+ GPU! (I need to work 3 months for that!)
I mostly agree, but you do have to take into account inflation--about 8% cumulative since 2008, and about 35% cumulative since 2000. That makes the $500-650 flagships of 2000 like $675-900 today, which makes the Titan seem less obscene.That strikes me as somewhat insane. I remember when the HD4850 512MB was mid-range, and it was released at $200 retail. I paid $150 for mine, BB had a 25% off sale on VisionTek cards, the week before the card was supposed to be released. Some stores got the cards in early, and could be convinced to let you buy them.If consumers are willing to pay premiums for NV's products, then NV deserves the high profit margins. In my eyes, it seems the trend is more expensive GPUs from both camps in general. $400-500 mid-range with $700-1000 now reserved for flagship cards, or an increase from $250-300 and $500-650 we previously had.
I paid $190 ea for my Gigabyte WindForce GTX460 1GB OC cards.
That's the price range that I am comfortable paying. NOT $400-500. That's nuts. If video cards alone are going to cost as much or more than a high-end console, I'll switch to consoles.
If AMD had these kind of margins would that be a bad thing?
If AMD had these kind of margins would that be a bad thing?
People in the U.S. don't like it one bit, either. 3 months pay to be able to sink $1000 into a hobby is not atypical, and may even be optimistic (what's atypical is being able to work 4 times longer). There is enough of a market for Titan, but those buying Titan are easily in the top 5%, if not 1%, in terms of spending, even just limiting oneself to PC video cards. Titan is nice for nVidia, because so much of each chip is gross profit. But, the sales of their cards in desktops will have a bell curve of sales by model, likely peaking around the 650 or 660 series.Yea... Some of you in US or west EU may have different view on this than someone from EU-east/Asia/SA. I'm from post-communist country where $ is worth 4 times more than for you. I have to work 4 times longer to buy my hardware and I don't like increased price points a single bit!
And here I see people cheering for nvidia's records breaking margins and $1000+ GPU! (I need to work 3 months for that!)
Median income is around $40-50k/yr, typical discretionary income will be around $5-10k/yr, and that's about as high as it gets for around 2/3 of the population, or a little more, depending on how it's being measured (with about 1/3 having <$7k/yr, based on quick Googling, though a few stats showing <5k--probably counting cars+pets or something). So, easy if you eat ramen and only spend money on gaming. More hobbies, less gaming, less income, living closer to a major city, not being single, having kids, having a pet, paying off a car, not being a loner geek, living paycheck to paycheck, and so on, and the time will increase. Also, most people are effectively on fixed incomes, in so far as that working more is not a practical option, only changing locations or jobs. Those people making less gross, and/or with other places they want to spend their spare money (including just saving it), and those with higher costs, still buy PCs, still buy video cards for them, and still buy games.Three months for $1000? What kind of crap jobs do you guys have? I can understand raising a family and paying a mortgage is not easy but even a half decent job leaves enough disposable income to buy more than one titan. I'm in my last year of med school and I bought two of them with cash.
:thumbsup:Compared to Intel's historical pricing and competition, they actually make the world's most efficient, fastest and still reasonably priced gaming CPUs. $225 for 3570K is a bargain in the context of historical CPU pricing, longevity and its overclocking and efficiency. NV's products do not fit into this context except for efficiency. 680 is gimped on the overclocking front, the stock cooler and PCB on the 670 is sub-par, voltage is locked, VRAM is gimped, HD7950 OC wipes the floor with 660Ti. In almost all cases under $550, NV offers worse performance and price/performance than the competitor. Perhaps GTX650Ti Boost is the sole exception.
Regarding comparing Intel's higher margins to NV's, GPUs won't last as long as CPUs either. Therefore, people don't care as much that Intel is making a killing on CPUs. Also $225-325 CPUs is not comparable to $400-550 GPUs that are outdated in 2 years. 2500K/3570K or even 2600K/3770K are justifiable by virtue of them lasting at least 3-4 years. Just look at i7 Nehalem @ 3.75ghz in games:
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/far_cry_3_graphics_performance_review_benchmark,7.html
Furthermore, Intel's CPUs hold their value very well. You can sell a 3570K that you paid $225 for $125 2 years later without a problem. The total cost of ownership over the useful life of the CPU is very minimal. With a GTX480, you paid $500 at launch and 1.5 years later it was going for $175-225 on Newegg. With GTX580 you paid $500 and in 1.5 years later HD7850 OC delivered that performance for $200.
Outside spring 2012, this gen with NV, you generally paid more for slower performance and in many cases less features (less VRAM for mods), no ability to bitcoin mine. This is not the NV I know. The NV I know gave us the awesome GeForce 4200Ti, 6800 non-ultra unlock, 6800GT, 8800GT, GTX460/GTX470 and GTX560Ti. This is the first time since GeForce 5 where for nearly 12 months I have had a very difficult time recommending any NV card, except in situations of SLI or if someone just wants the best in the GTX690/Titan. NV's margins and brand positioning this round is more Apple than NV. The OP sees this and I see it too. I am not against a business making money but it's a head-scratcher when NV starts selling slower, worse overclocking, VRAM gimped products for more $ and gamers are buying. If this stunt was pulled in past generations from GeForce 4 to GeForce 400, NV would have gotten burned on the forums. The Titan regained the single GPU performance crown but they still have no price/performance card anywhere near the status of those cards I listed above. 660Ti isn't it since HD7950 OC >>>> GTX660Ti OC all day. GTX660 and below is too slow. GTX670/680 are still overpriced.
I want to meet those people who are willing to pay $360 in May 2013 for a reference GTX670, after a rebate.
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
What was this person doing when Gigabyte GTX670 was $399 on May 10, 2012, exactly 1 year ago? 12 months have passed, Gigabyte GTX670 fell $20.
GTX670 level of performance today should be $275 and in 12 months from now $200 at most. GPUs should get cheaper over time. NV's and AMD's cards have barely moved in the last 12 months. Huge rip-offs on both sides now. I wouldn't touch anything in 2013 at these prices without $75-150 price drops for both, esp. NV. HD7970GE were going for $470 in July 2012, and are $410 now. The joke's is on people still buying at these prices and sending a signal to NV/AMD that this is OK.