54.4% Margins - Nvidia

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MrK6

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2004
4,458
4
81
What's happening is we're seeing the retarding of a generation of consumers. I think nvidia is ahead of the game recognizing this. They make less robust hardware than AMD and then lock it down so it can't be tweaked out its narrow margins for specifications, which is then made up for by marketing. You can see it in the idiots who post here that would rather talk about a company's financials (which they as consumers are being taken advantage of to improve) rather than the strengths of their products (which should be the focus of the consumer).

It's unfortunate because the enthusiast communities aren't what they were a decade ago when I got into computers. There are a lot more ignorant fanboys sh*tposting all day and less talk about new tech or mods or other interesting aspects of the hobby. In either case, this is the direction the community chose and what it has become, shame really.
 

sontin

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2011
3,273
149
106
So a massive die GPU that has a ton of compute silicon that needs a huge cooler just to run at 900mhz was going to be their $600 desktop card.

Im sure that makes great business sense for them.

Anyone looking at the Titan can see it was never designed to be their 680 GTX.

The problem with big die GPU's is that yields will be poor which also puts the cost up.

So you have the most expensive GPU with low yields and low number of chips per wafer. This doesnt exactly scream $600 desktop card to me.

So, nVidia never sold G70, G80, GT200, GT200b, GF100 and GF110 for $600 or less?

Yeah, your trolling getting worse...
 

wand3r3r

Diamond Member
May 16, 2008
3,180
0
0
So a massive die GPU that has a ton of compute silicon that needs a huge cooler just to run at 900mhz was going to be their $600 desktop card.

Im sure that makes great business sense for them.

Anyone looking at the Titan can see it was never designed to be their 680 GTX.

The problem with big die GPU's is that yields will be poor which also puts the cost up.

So you have the most expensive GPU with low yields and low number of chips per wafer. This doesnt exactly scream $600 desktop card to me.

The 580 was the same chip as their pro line. The 680 is the 560 ti successor. The titan is the 580 successor. I am surprised if somebody hasn't caught on to this yet.

What's happening is we're seeing the retarding of a generation of consumers. I think nvidia is ahead of the game recognizing this. They make less robust hardware than AMD and then lock it down so it can't be tweaked out its narrow margins for specifications, which is then made up for by marketing. You can see it in the idiots who post here that would rather talk about a company's financials (which they as consumers are being taken advantage of to improve) rather than the strengths of their products (which should be the focus of the consumer).

It's unfortunate because the enthusiast communities aren't what they were a decade ago when I got into computers. There are a lot more ignorant fanboys sh*tposting all day and less talk about new tech or mods or other interesting aspects of the hobby. In either case, this is the direction the community chose and what it has become, shame really.

Yep. The question I have for anyone who's so proud of NV's profit increases, this is good for you how? Because it's certainly nothing I find beneficial, it means the price increases were just gouging (despite certain people trying to deflect it to higher costs etc.).
 

Fx1

Golden Member
Aug 22, 2012
1,215
5
81
So, nVidia never sold G70, G80, GT200, GT200b, GF100 and GF110 for $600 or less?

Yeah, your trolling getting worse...

Have you ever considered that GK110 had very poor yields. It has 7.1bln transistors and is 550mm2 in size.

The 7970 is 389mm2 which is way cheaper to produce in both yields and chips per wafer.

I think its obviously become too expensive for nvidia to keep selling broken Tesla chips as their top of the line desktop chips. This fits in perfectly with the little bitch rant that nvidia had at TSMC about the cost of new process shrinks and poor 28nm yields.

Also Sontin stop calling people trolls and go work on your english im sick of reading your broken english and trying to work on what the hell you are talking about.
 

Cerb

Elite Member
Aug 26, 2000
17,484
33
86
What's happening is we're seeing the retarding of a generation of consumers. I think nvidia is ahead of the game recognizing this. They make less robust hardware than AMD and then lock it down so it can't be tweaked out its narrow margins for specifications, which is then made up for by marketing. You can see it in the idiots who post here that would rather talk about a company's financials (which they as consumers are being taken advantage of to improve) rather than the strengths of their products (which should be the focus of the consumer).

It's unfortunate because the enthusiast communities aren't what they were a decade ago when I got into computers. There are a lot more ignorant fanboys sh*tposting all day and less talk about new tech or mods or other interesting aspects of the hobby. In either case, this is the direction the community chose and what it has become, shame really.
In many ways, I think this is what integration and commoditization have wrought. I used to really like tinkering, because there was always something that could be done a bit better, a bit faster, a bit quieter, a bit cheaper, etc.. There's just not as much of that that needs doing, anymore, and what there is is far easier to accomplish. Keeping my Athlon XP overclocked and quiet, FI, was a real accomplishment (I got a FX 5900 succesfully cooled with a Zalman ZM80, FI--that was pretty awesome, at the time!). It took time, effort, planning, testing, note-taking, logging temperatures, etc.. Today, it takes careful part selection, and $100-200 more of a build budget. It's just not as interesting, any more, because while you can DIY some of it, there's no real need, and you'll end up spending as much or more than using COTS parts.

Back then, if you wanted more performance, you had to really push the hardware. The best hardware of the day couldn't get good enough visuals with current games maxed out. Half the first and third person games were like 75% of what Crysis was, for the time.

Back then, there were major differences in IQ between games and hardware, to the point that you could tell the brand of card someone used by looking at a shrunken screenshot, if it had AA and/or AF enabled, and sometimes not even that, based on mipmap and depth handling differences.

If you wanted to quiet things down, it took real effort, too, not unlike trying to squeeze the last drop of performance out. Also, mildly-overclocked Nehalems are almost as fast as IBs (IE, why spend $500+ on an upgrade, when all you'll get is gains from OCing the new CPU?). You couldn't get more than 1-2 extra years out of overclocking a CPU back in 1998, 2000, 2002, or 2004, and 2006 would only work if you got your timing just right, fast RAM, and a nice mobo.

Today, you can easily, and cheaply, overclock, get big coolers, get cases with good airflow, etc., and you can typically just pay more for more performance. Today, everything works. In yesteryear, though, hardware was indeed far more interesting. Notice how the backlash for limiting overclocks via overvolting has been barely visible, even on hardware and gaming forums.

"Good enough," can look like a vulture, with the right perspective, I guess.
 
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wand3r3r

Diamond Member
May 16, 2008
3,180
0
0
Have you ever considered that GK110 had very poor yields. It has 7.1bln transistors and is 550mm2 in size.

I agree they might have poor yields or haven't ramped up production and yes it probably is expensive but not like the price tries to make it appear. It's still the 580 successor.

I'm sure it initially had poor yields or just was not ready for prime time, thus delayed a year forever.
 

Final8ty

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2007
1,172
13
81
What's happening is we're seeing the retarding of a generation of consumers. I think nvidia is ahead of the game recognizing this. They make less robust hardware than AMD and then lock it down so it can't be tweaked out its narrow margins for specifications, which is then made up for by marketing. You can see it in the idiots who post here that would rather talk about a company's financials (which they as consumers are being taken advantage of to improve) rather than the strengths of their products (which should be the focus of the consumer).

It's unfortunate because the enthusiast communities aren't what they were a decade ago when I got into computers. There are a lot more ignorant fanboys sh*tposting all day and less talk about new tech or mods or other interesting aspects of the hobby. In either case, this is the direction the community chose and what it has become, shame really.

Indeed.
 

willomz

Senior member
Sep 12, 2012
334
0
0
Yep. The question I have for anyone who's so proud of NV's profit increases, this is good for you how? Because it's certainly nothing I find beneficial, it means the price increases were just gouging (despite certain people trying to deflect it to higher costs etc.).

Do you remember who it was that started this thread?

Oh and it is good because that money can be ploughed back into R&D and decent drivers!
 

Fx1

Golden Member
Aug 22, 2012
1,215
5
81
Do you remember who it was that started this thread?

Oh and it is good because that money can be ploughed back into R&D and decent drivers!

Money gets put into those anyway.

That extra money goes on bonuses and fancy coffee machines in their new offices.

You know what executives sit around and talk about all day? How they can screw more money out of their customers to fund their lavish lifestyles.
 

Erenhardt

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2012
3,251
105
101
Anyone looking at the Titan can see it was never designed to be their 680 GTX.

There is a clue hidden in nvidia's close partner stock - EVGA :
http://eu.evga.com/products/prodlist.asp
GPU product codes:
400 series GTX470: 012-P3-1470-AR
500 series GTX570: 012-P3-1571-RX
600 series GTX670: 02G-P4-2678-KR
pattern: xxx-xx-xSMx-xx
S - series number
M - model
700 series GTX770: xxx-xx-x77x-xx

titan: 06G-P4-2794-KR
S = 7
M = 9
full name = GTX790
That means Titan is (will be) fastest 700 series card.
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,715
2,012
126
Money gets put into those anyway.

That extra money goes on bonuses and fancy coffee machines in their new offices.

You know what executives sit around and talk about all day? How they can screw more money out of their customers to fund their lavish lifestyles.

Erm, it's a company's job to make money for its shareholders.
 

Fx1

Golden Member
Aug 22, 2012
1,215
5
81
Erm, it's a company's job to make money for its shareholders.

HAHA

No.

Shareholders dont make any money. In fact shareholders have nearly ZERO power to do anything. Company executives can do what they like 95% of the time.

Steve Jobs blocked dividend payments to shareholders even though they had 100bln in the bank. It took his death to change that. Despite apple now offering dividends and the share price hitting $700 and apple making record profits Apples shares are now $450. Huge loss for some people.

Want to know why people with serious money buy government bonds? Because they are the only reliable source of income. The only people who buy shares are gamblers and pension funds which are gambling to increase peoples retirement incomes.

Company executives are in it for themselves. They choose their own pay and bonuses. Shareholders are near powerless to stop them due to diluted ownership of shares the pissed off shareholders never have enough power to do anything.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
HAHA

No.

Shareholders dont make any money. In fact shareholders have nearly ZERO power to do anything. Company executives can do what they like 95% of the time.

Steve Jobs blocked dividend payments to shareholders even though they had 100bln in the bank. It took his death to change that. Despite apple now offering dividends and the share price hitting $700 and apple making record profits Apples shares are now $450. Huge loss for some people.

Want to know why people with serious money buy government bonds? Because they are the only reliable source of income. The only people who buy shares are gamblers and pension funds which are gambling to increase peoples retirement incomes.

Company executives are in it for themselves. They choose their own pay and bonuses. Shareholders are near powerless to stop them due to diluted ownership of shares the pissed off shareholders never have enough power to do anything.

Shareholders can earn money in 2 ways. Stock price increase and dividends.

Apple supplied stock price increase until Jobs passed away. And now they have to pay out dividends after the stock took a huge dive.

Shareholders got huge control if they exercise it. They can put in any people they want in control.

Also your entire thread is started on the concept of lack of understanding how these companies work. nVidia makes the margin they need, its another company that doesnt make enough. These margins needs to pay for future products. You are not getting GTX8xx or HD9xxx cards with 0% margins.
 
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Fx1

Golden Member
Aug 22, 2012
1,215
5
81
Shareholders can earn money in 2 ways. Stock price increase and dividends.

Apple supplied stock price increase until Jobs passed away. And now they have to pay out dividends after the stock took a huge dive.

Shareholders got huge control if they exercise it. They can put in any people they want in control.

Also your entire thread is started on the concept of lack of understanding how these companies work. nVidia makes the margin they need, its another company that doesnt make enough. These margins needs to pay for future products. You are not getting GTX8xx or HD9xxx cards with 0% margins.

Why do you think people like me want companies to make 0%? What good is that? id prefer them to make 5% than 15% that is my point. I want them to work as hard as possible to make that 5% so i can buy my GPU for £300 instead of £400.

What i dont want is them thinking that we are a bunch of fanboy suckers who will pay £850 for a Titan. Which is exactly the message people on this forum give off.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
Why do you think people like me want companies to make 0%? What good is that? id prefer them to make 5% than 15% that is my point. I want them to work as hard as possible to make that 5% so i can buy my GPU for £300 instead of £400.

What i dont want is them thinking that we are a bunch of fanboy suckers who will pay £850 for a Titan. Which is exactly the message people on this forum give off.

You want nVidia to have a 5% gross margin because you want cheaper cards now? I really sense you dont know what its all about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_margin

You wish would destroy any technological progress. nVIdia uses over a billion $ a year on R&D. Without that gross margin to support it, among other expenses, there wouldnt be any R&D.
 
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blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
HAHA

No.

Shareholders dont make any money. In fact shareholders have nearly ZERO power to do anything. Company executives can do what they like 95% of the time.

Steve Jobs blocked dividend payments to shareholders even though they had 100bln in the bank. It took his death to change that. Despite apple now offering dividends and the share price hitting $700 and apple making record profits Apples shares are now $450. Huge loss for some people.

Want to know why people with serious money buy government bonds? Because they are the only reliable source of income. The only people who buy shares are gamblers and pension funds which are gambling to increase peoples retirement incomes.

Company executives are in it for themselves. They choose their own pay and bonuses. Shareholders are near powerless to stop them due to diluted ownership of shares the pissed off shareholders never have enough power to do anything.

You really have NO IDEA what you're talking about, do you?
 

Fx1

Golden Member
Aug 22, 2012
1,215
5
81
You want nVidia to have a 5% gross margin because you want cheaper cards now? I really sense you dont know what its all about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_margin

You wish would destroy any technological progress. nVIdia uses over a billion $ a year on R&D. Without that gross margin to support it, among other expenses, there wouldnt be any R&D.

Seriously just shut up.

Stop trying to talk to me about margins when you clearly dont know the difference between Gross and Net margins.

Why would anyone suggest a company works on 5% gross margin.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
Seriously just shut up.

Stop trying to talk to me about margins when you clearly dont know the difference between Gross and Net margins.

Why would anyone suggest a company works on 5% gross margin.

Can you link it? nVidia got a 52.9% gross margin. It would make a net margin of a higher rate impossible.

Their net margin is 13.5%
http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/NVIDIA_(NVDA)/Data/Net_Margin

Makes your post look pretty...well I am sure you get the point.
 
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Fx1

Golden Member
Aug 22, 2012
1,215
5
81
Can you link it? nVidia got a 52.9% gross margin. It would make a net margin of a higher rate impossible.

Their net margin is 13.5%
http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/NVIDIA_(NVDA)/Data/Net_Margin

Makes your post look pretty...well I am sure you get the point.

Can i link what? I dont need to go to wikipedia to fight internet battles.

I work with margins everyday for large international companies. I know how they work. I have full P&L accountability for my customers. Im the person who decides the pricing of my companies products in my customers. What promotions to run and what products to list.

There will be an equivalent person at Nvidia and AMD who do the same job as me. I can tell you exactly how it works. If you dont have much competition then you dont need to promote as much and you can charge higher prices and at the end of the year you get a bonus. The people above you get even bigger bonuses and the people at the very top they get bonuses no matter what because if they want to make more profit they just fire a few hundred staff and get their bonuses that way.

This is the same no matter what the product is... A GPU a mobile phone or even a can of coke.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Market share changes all the time.

I buy the best deal for me.

Stop acting like an Nvidia employee

It rarely changes and AMD certainly has never held any gains long term. Quit acting like an apologist for a loser.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
What's happening is we're seeing the retarding of a generation of consumers. I think nvidia is ahead of the game recognizing this. They make less robust hardware than AMD and then lock it down so it can't be tweaked out its narrow margins for specifications, which is then made up for by marketing. You can see it in the idiots who post here that would rather talk about a company's financials (which they as consumers are being taken advantage of to improve) rather than the strengths of their products (which should be the focus of the consumer).

It's unfortunate because the enthusiast communities aren't what they were a decade ago when I got into computers. There are a lot more ignorant fanboys sh*tposting all day and less talk about new tech or mods or other interesting aspects of the hobby. In either case, this is the direction the community chose and what it has become, shame really.

That is grand. It isn't that AMD is sucking wind it is that consumers are retards lmao.

We could get into bullet point lists but AMD loses that as well and destroys your argument about more robust hardware.
 

SirPauly

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2009
5,187
1
0
What's happening is we're seeing the retarding of a generation of consumers. I think nvidia is ahead of the game recognizing this. They make less robust hardware than AMD and then lock it down so it can't be tweaked out its narrow margins for specifications, which is then made up for by marketing. You can see it in the idiots who post here that would rather talk about a company's financials (which they as consumers are being taken advantage of to improve) rather than the strengths of their products (which should be the focus of the consumer).

It's unfortunate because the enthusiast communities aren't what they were a decade ago when I got into computers. There are a lot more ignorant fanboys sh*tposting all day and less talk about new tech or mods or other interesting aspects of the hobby. In either case, this is the direction the community chose and what it has become, shame really.

I'm glad there are financials and market share discussion on forums; as it provides a nice mix for discussion.

Sure, let's discuss GPU PhysX, GPU Boost, 3d vision, Cuda, hybrid mixed modes, flexible lod for Directx through 11, flexible transparency, TXAA, SweetFX, adaptive V-sync, Smooth V-sync, hardware and software frame metering in a thread discussing margins.

I think nVidia knows what they're doing and it shows in their share and financials, too.
 
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