5970 Reviews

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palladium

Senior member
Dec 24, 2007
539
2
81
Where has this been proven? Links? Core is what eats power. Memory although consume power will only consume fraction of what the core consumes. You probably saw a combination of the core and memory redux affecting power consumption.

It couldn't possibly eat 5-10 more watts for 1200mhz from 1000mhz.

Do you have links to back those up?
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
The problem currently is it is being held back by drivers, software, and the applications themselves. Current drivers are not without problems on the new Radeon HD 5000 series. There are a slew of games that have some kind of issue with this new graphics series from AMD. If it isn’t lack of AA support or poor AA performance then it is just overall slower performance than it should be in games.

Unimpressive. :\

Looking at the benches, it would appear that the driver certainly needs to improve. But as of now, AMD has the fastest dual GPU card, and the fastest single GPU card. Infact, 3 of the fastest 4 cards that money can buy from any manufacturer are from AMD. Pretty much any new card that launches from either camp will typically have it's driver bugs, I imagine the problem is compounded with dual GPU cards. We all know that these will get worked out as AMD releases their monthy drivers and hotfixes.

I would think the single biggest knock right now is availability of the 58x0 parts and we'll see how availability with the 5970 turns out. The 58x0 parts are trickling in here and there. But even at the less than stellar availability of the 58x0 parts, AMD's availablity of DX11 hardware is still much, MUCH better than Nvidia's availability of DX11 parts.
 

Painman

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2000
3,728
29
86
Looking at the benches, it would appear that the driver certainly needs to improve. But as of now, AMD has the fastest dual GPU card, and the fastest single GPU card. Infact, 3 of the fastest 4 cards that money can buy from any manufacturer are from AMD. Pretty much any new card that launches from either camp will typically have it's driver bugs, I imagine the problem is compounded with dual GPU cards. We all know that these will get worked out as AMD releases their monthy drivers and hotfixes.

I would think the single biggest knock right now is availability of the 58x0 parts and we'll see how availability with the 5970 turns out. The 58x0 parts are trickling in here and there. But even at the less than stellar availability of the 58x0 parts, AMD's availablity of DX11 hardware is still much, MUCH better than Nvidia's availability of DX11 parts.

You're certainly not a n00b, so I have to wonder why you expend the energy...?
 

Seero

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2009
1,456
0
0
5970 is a very impressive video card. It is much faster than what was once the fastest, the Nvidia 295, by just 100 bucks more. What more can consumer ask for?
 

error8

Diamond Member
Nov 28, 2007
3,204
0
76
Where has this been proven? Links? Core is what eats power. Memory although consume power will only consume fraction of what the core consumes. You probably saw a combination of the core and memory redux affecting power consumption.

It couldn't possibly eat 5-10 more watts for 1200mhz from 1000mhz.

Here http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=67928

"Lowering the MEMORY clock from 900MHz to 225MHz yielded a temperature difference of 6C to 11C, and 38W savings in power consumption."

Of course it's not astonishing, but it does look that GDDR5 sucks some power after all. It's still the GPU the most power hungry piece on the card, but GDDR5 adds some heat into the equation as well. But like I've said, it still doesn't justify the choice for the clocks ATI chose. It could have went a bit over 300 Watts, I don't think people had any problems with that.
 

Painman

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2000
3,728
29
86
5970 is a very impressive video card. It is much faster than what was once the fastest, the Nvidia 295, by just 100 bucks more. What more can consumer ask for?

An additional packet of heatsink compound? (hopefully it'll be silicon-based)
 

AzN

Banned
Nov 26, 2001
4,112
2
0
Here http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=67928

"Lowering the MEMORY clock from 900MHz to 225MHz yielded a temperature difference of 6C to 11C, and 38W savings in power consumption."

Of course it's not astonishing, but it does look that GDDR5 sucks some power after all. It's still the GPU the most power hungry piece on the card, but GDDR5 adds some heat into the equation as well. But like I've said, it still doesn't justify the choice for the clocks ATI chose. It could have went a bit over 300 Watts, I don't think people had any problems with that.

Hmm. Never thought it would drop that much but that's like 675mhz difference. Possibly 20 more watts from 1000mhz to 1200mhz on the 5970.
 

Wreckage

Banned
Jul 1, 2005
5,529
0
0
AMD's availablity of DX11 hardware is still much, MUCH better than Nvidia's availability of DX11 parts.

Luckily NVIDIA's availability of PhysX games is much, much better than the availability of DX11 games. :whiste:

In fact I think NVIDIA got lucky here. Even though their card appears to be showing up late, there are no top shelf DX11 games to drive demand and poor availability of the 5xxx series.

This card has a $600 price tag, which oddly enough no one here is complaining about (much like they did when NVIDIA cards priced high).

Actually was this a paper launch as I don't see any at Newegg??
 
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scooterlibby

Senior member
Feb 28, 2009
752
0
0
Wreckage, I'm not sure why I'm feeding the troll, but I have said the $600 price point is a bit much for me. At $500 I would pull the trigger on this one. I can wait.
 

evolucion8

Platinum Member
Jun 17, 2005
2,867
3
81
Luckily NVIDIA's availability of PhysX games is much, much better than the availability of DX11 games. :whiste:

In fact I think NVIDIA got lucky here. Even though their card appears to be showing up late, there are no top shelf DX11 games to drive demand and poor availability of the 5xxx series.

This card has a $600 price tag, which oddly enough no one here is complaining about (much like they did when NVIDIA cards priced high).

Actually was this a paper launch as I don't see any at Newegg??

Sort of, the HD 5800 series came almost inmediately along the date of the launch of reviews. But about PhysX and DX11, the same can be said for Havok games, which are over 150 and exceeds the ones that uses PhysX, but if we talk about hardware accelerated PhysX, DX11 games that are in development are greater in number that the GPU accelerated PhysX games, pity, I just wasted $30 bucks with the AGEIA PhysX card, I only played 3 good games that can use it... (Batman AA, Mirrors Edge and Cryostasis which the water looks funny and the phisics glitches are patthetic) http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_physxgames_home.html <<Too few games that are worthy of playing, DX11 definitively will have a greater impact and broader market reach.

Back on topic, I'm a bit worried about the tendency of the power consumption overall, it won't be long that in the next two generations of cards, it will exceed the 300W limit threshold and can handicap the progress a bit.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
Wreckage, I'm not sure why I'm feeding the troll, but I have said the $600 price point is a bit much for me. At $500 I would pull the trigger on this one. I can wait.

I think why few people are complaining is because the price in this case makes sense. This card has better specs than 2 5850's, but costs the same. If they had priced this card the same as 2 5870's, that price would be way out of line. When Nvidia priced the GTX280 at $650, it could barely out pace the Radeon 4870 that cost less than half... that's why the price of the GTX280 was so out of line.

As far as DX11 and Physx go, DX11 has been officially out since the Win7 launch? Less than a month and it has a couple games already. After being on the market for some years now, and being purchased by Nvidia ho long ago... 18 months? 2 years? How many hardware accelerated Physx games are on the market? I'm not sure why anyone would compare Physx to DX11, I think it's pretty much common sense on which one will be used more frequently.
 
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dguy6789

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2002
8,558
3
76
It's pretty amusing to see ATI completely, utterly destroying Nvidia and Wreckage jumping in to say b..b...but PhysX... and... p..price tag.... and..um.... ATI sucks! Yeah that's the ticket! Go Nvidia! Down with ATI!
 

error8

Diamond Member
Nov 28, 2007
3,204
0
76
These are dark days for Wreckage. Very hard for him to defend Nvidia now.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
221
106
It's showing very solid gains but I'm not that impressed with it vs the GTX295.

What do you mean?

HF5890 is a heck of a lot faster than the GTX295.

If they were able to increase resolution/detail settings/IQ to make things even more GPU bound the difference would be even greater.
 

Painman

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2000
3,728
29
86
My 3DMark Vantage score still sucks unless I ignore nVidia.

Blah Blah This nVidia.

Blah Blah That nVidia.

There's the key, kiddies... would you stop whining about the green slime already? Stop mentioning their name...

/post
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
59
91
It's pretty amusing to see ATI completely, utterly destroying Nvidia and Wreckage jumping in to say b..b...but PhysX... and... p..price tag.... and..um.... ATI sucks! Yeah that's the ticket! Go Nvidia! Down with ATI!

Considering how painful efforts to discuss topics of sports, religion, and politics can become in social circles in real life owing to rabid fanboyism I would have to say that if wreckage is the worst this social circle has contend with then we've done something right.

Seriously, if you ever want to waste your life just try and talk NFL with any one of my brothers and say something that isn't absolutely glorifying of the Patriots. Hell hath no fury... Wreckage posts are water on a ducks back.
 

tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
6,734
514
126
www.facebook.com
So basically inferring, since nVidia can't compete fairly, sabotage is in order?

Edit: I have to add that misquoting something is not something new, you seem to have a knack for specifically misquoting something, (by edit* or omission) to show something different than the intent of the original author!

I'm personally sick of hearing this sabotage excuse used left and right. The whole Batman ant aliasing issue isn't without merit, but insofar as game performance on comparable in game features, I HIGHLY, and I mean HIGHLY doubt a dev is "sabotaging" their game's performance for the sake of nvidia.

The TWIMTBP program involves sending nvidia engineers to help the dev code the game to run fastest on their hardware, not to sabotage the performance of the game on other hardware. If AMD were as marketing savvy and as smart as nvidia, they'd implement similar programs.
 

ArchAngel777

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
5,223
61
91
Back on topic, I'm a bit worried about the tendency of the power consumption overall, it won't be long that in the next two generations of cards, it will exceed the 300W limit threshold and can handicap the progress a bit.

I would actually prefer that they don't increase the power consumption limit. Intel got it right when it decided to pursue performance per watt. It is about time that both of these GPU vendors start doing the same thing. In my opinion, increasing power consumption is no different than increasing the displacement of engine blocks. At some point it becomes absurd. We are at that point in my opinion.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
11,943
2,171
126
Wreckage, I'm not sure why I'm feeding the troll, but I have said the $600 price point is a bit much for me. At $500 I would pull the trigger on this one. I can wait.

I think $600 is reasonable for this card considering it's about the speed of 5850CF which is around $600 and you can actually use CF Eyefinity. The GTX295 debuted at $650 didn't it? I think the GTX280 debuting at $650 is what irks most people since it went down very quickly. The 8800GTX at $650 was worth it IMO. Heck I paid ~$600CAD for a 8800GTS 640 and (although I'll never do that again) I didn't think it was completely unreasonable considering the performance.
 

evolucion8

Platinum Member
Jun 17, 2005
2,867
3
81
I'm personally sick of hearing this sabotage excuse used left and right. The whole Batman ant aliasing issue isn't without merit, but insofar as game performance on comparable in game features, I HIGHLY, and I mean HIGHLY doubt a dev is "sabotaging" their game's performance for the sake of nvidia.

The TWIMTBP program involves sending nvidia engineers to help the dev code the game to run fastest on their hardware, not to sabotage the performance of the game on other hardware. If AMD were as marketing savvy and as smart as nvidia, they'd implement similar programs.

Somehow the sabotage makes sense. Good example of this;

1 - Lost Planet - When the game was released, it was a direct port of the Xbox 360 which uses ATi hardware, the game usually ran almost twice as slower with ATi hardware than nVidia hardware, how could that be possible? Is a game that isn't that challenging regarding in graphics, why? nVidia hardware is usually faster in texture filtering and with considerably amounts of simple shaders with lots of dependant texture reads, while ATi hardware its much faster with lots of very long mathematical shader instructions. The game was coded in nVidia's way that favores it and hampers the performance in ATi hardware.

2 - Deadspace - The same thing, the game while runs over 100 - 120fps in HD 48x0 series, the GTX 2x0 series smokes it with over 160+, but why? The game doesn't look that great compared to other games like Crysis which runs comparable on both vendors, why?

3 - Batman AA - Anti Aliasing disabled in the in-game options, why? Mirrors Edge uses the same identical engine and offers in-game Anti Aliasing options with both vendors, why Batman AA couldn't? Are EIDOS developers that lousy?

4 - Cryostasis - They even had to release a patch to fix issues with SM 4.0 and ATi hardware, why? If they were supposed to follow the DX spec carefully, it wouldn't happen.

If you want it, search for the reviews of those games when they were launched and you will see what I mean. Is true that ATi architecture is quite dependant of driver optimizations to increase efficiency, but those cases are quite ridiculous.
 
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