62% of Voters think Putin Would Not Invade if Trump was President

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alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,668
3,067
136
It must be nice to so easily type some of the dumbest and nonsensical bs. Review Putin's track record under Obama, Biden, and Trump. Trump was pushing other countries to up their financial contributions to NATO, and he tried to prevent the gas pipeline to Germany.

Trump wanted to pull the US out of NATO.


he didn't strengthen our relationship with out allies, like Biden has, he severely damaged them.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,700
6,197
126
I don't really understand why Putin has "gone for it" now, particularly. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Anyone not a fully paid-up member of the Trump cult surely can see that, if anything, Biden had a much greater probability of producing a coherent response (certainly, of bringing allies with him) than Trump would have done. The opinion poll results even now apparently show more Democrats favouring a military reaction than Republicans (though personally I'm slightly relieved that it's a minority of both groups - talk here about the RAF "providing air support" for the Ukrainians makes me nervous as to where that could lead).

I mean, maybe, one could stretch to the possibility that Trump's irrational unpredictability might have been a kind of deterrence in itself. The 'madman theory' of deterrence. Or maybe it's just that with Trump in charge of the US Putin felt he was winning anyway so could bide his time? Now he's suddenly in a hurry (to go where, though? to accomplishy what, exactly?)

But honestly I did not expect Putin's military posturing to come to anything. It's fortunate I'm not in charge of anything, because I got this one 100% wrong - I really was sure it would all blow over after a bit of (Cossack) sabre-rattling. I do not understand why Putin has done this, particularly right at this moment.

It seems quite mad on Putin's part (their track record in Afghanistan and Chechnya surely can't inspire confidence on the Russian side?). So that 'madman theory' feels like it now applies the other way. I'm worried he's become irrational. I mean a lot of leaders, even in functioning democracies, go a bit peculiar after being in power too long. It was bad enough having Trump in control of a nuclear arsenal, but at least the US had some semblance of democracy and 'checks and balances'.
The problem with not wanting to know how much you hate yourself is that you lack the self understanding to really see to what level of malevolence it can manifest as. You don't appreciate irrationality. I don't spend my time trying to inform you of what I believe to be true to make you feel bad but to protect yourself from the consequence of ignorance, naturally in my opinion. I see Putin as feeling so worthless he can't value human life. His whole mental attitude strikes me as one who has put all his ego eggs in the delusional value of macho strength. He is sick, emotionally as dead as a snake and from snakes you should expect snake behavior.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,997
18,344
146
Trump wanted to pull the US out of NATO.


he didn't strengthen our relationship with out allies, like Biden has, he severely damaged them.

#never_remember

#bowling_green

#alt_facts

This is Brandons preferred tribe
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
This is probably correct. Putin didn’t invade while Trump was president because Trump was already enacting Putin’s preferred policy.

Exactly. Putin wouldn't have invaded because Trump would have left NATO, and NATO rudderless if not collapsing.

Trump also would be helping to fund Putin's latest little green men experiments sabotaging Ukraine internally, from Trump campaign funds gleefully donated by his dogshit supporters. (Trump needs to pay, if he ever gets that tower in Mokba)
 
Reactions: Racan and dank69
Mar 11, 2004
23,181
5,641
146
I think we’ve established that a majority of the people in this country are morons (not just conservatives or rural voters either) so nothing surprises me any more.

It takes a special kind of desire to spread your ass cheeks to try and both sides commenting like this. Keep your asshole in your pants or STFU. When Republicans repeatedly show you they alone can in fact be blamed entirely for such widespread stupidity there is no reason to try and placate their goddamn feelings, it just enables them to feel justified for being proud to be so fucking stupid, knowing there's gonna be someone like you to gleefully bend over and spread their ass cheeks for them, so that they can feel a bit better. Sure, their dicks will be covered in shit, but their goal always was to spread shit on you. Mission accomplished.
 
Reactions: iRONic

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,139
5,074
136
Now . . . pay attention.

Putin's timetable for invading Ukraine hasn't anything to do with who occupies the White House, but for one factor. Putin wouldn't want to make Trump look bad. Trump was the best thing that ever happened for Putin, who seeks ascendancy for a new Russia and chaotic decline for America.

The issues propelling Putin include more of Ukrainian political developments or a NATO that has been resurrected from the tatters in which Trump left it.

2016-2018 validated tools and techniques to manipulate US politics and reinforced Putin's belief that even when he cannot manipulate US government all he has to worry about is surviving a US election cycle. By 2023 we will probably see a lot of GOP narratives and talking points about relaxing Russian sanctions and all expectation is that the whoever is running on the Republican ticket will have some Russia friendly folks in their orbit.

Look how easy it is to manipulate Americans. Look at some of the posts this poll created.
I got into the wrong business.
 
Reactions: dank69 and Pohemi

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
Do those 62% remember the Helsinki presser when Trump sold out his own country to side with Putin?

Do those 62% remember Trump tried to dismantle NATO?

Do those 62% remember Trump tried to blackmail the Zelensky in digging up dirt on Biden. (Impeachment #1)

I want to see that poll question asked again after reminding people what happened.
 

Pohemi

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
9,374
12,773
146
Do those 62% remember the Helsinki presser when Trump sold out his own country to side with Putin?

Do those 62% remember Trump tried to dismantle NATO?

Do those 62% remember Trump tried to blackmail the Zelensky in digging up dirt on Biden. (Impeachment #1)

I want to see that poll question asked again after reminding people what happened.
Good luck with that. Cognitive dissonance and outright denial of reality and the past will prevent that happening in many if not most cases.
 

Pohemi

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
9,374
12,773
146
Duh. It was probably planned to happen this way. Give Biden a media mess to deal with.
Yep, add to the discord and division, make a mess for the current admin, etc.

Putin made several pretenses to justify his invasion of Ukraine. I wouldn't doubt he has pre-planned responses that only need military opposition to the invasion (by other than Ukraine) as a pretense to put the plan(s) in action. They've already left the last nuclear accords over the sanctions that have been put in place. Perhaps he just wanted an excuse to ditch those agreements? They're already waving the nuclear threat around.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,598
29,301
136
Let's be honest for a minute. If Trump was still President and Putin did invade Ukraine on his watch, Trump and the rest of the GOP would be running cover for Putin in the media (just like he is from his couch in front of Fox News right now, but with the rest of the government behind him) and threatening any countries that dare to aid Ukraine.

And all the absolute shit human beings that voted for Trump have the balls to criticize Biden and expect us to take them seriously as human beings with a valid opinion on anything political. Then cry foul when dismissed as the human garbage they are.
 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,652
10,515
136
I don't really understand why Putin has "gone for it" now, particularly. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Anyone not a fully paid-up member of the Trump cult surely can see that, if anything, Biden had a much greater probability of producing a coherent response (certainly, of bringing allies with him) than Trump would have done. The opinion poll results even now apparently show more Democrats favouring a military reaction than Republicans (though personally I'm slightly relieved that it's a minority of both groups - talk here about the RAF "providing air support" for the Ukrainians makes me nervous as to where that could lead).

I mean, maybe, one could stretch to the possibility that Trump's irrational unpredictability might have been a kind of deterrence in itself. The 'madman theory' of deterrence. Or maybe it's just that with Trump in charge of the US Putin felt he was winning anyway so could bide his time? Now he's suddenly in a hurry (to go where, though? to accomplishy what, exactly?)

But honestly I did not expect Putin's military posturing to come to anything. It's fortunate I'm not in charge of anything, because I got this one 100% wrong - I really was sure it would all blow over after a bit of (Cossack) sabre-rattling. I do not understand why Putin has done this, particularly right at this moment.

It seems quite mad on Putin's part (their track record in Afghanistan and Chechnya surely can't inspire confidence on the Russian side?). So that 'madman theory' feels like it now applies the other way. I'm worried he's become irrational. I mean a lot of leaders, even in functioning democracies, go a bit peculiar after being in power too long. It was bad enough having Trump in control of a nuclear arsenal, but at least the US had some semblance of democracy and 'checks and balances'.
Fox has been telling the world that Biden is weak because the of Afghan pull-out. Seems he got their messaging.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
Do those 62% remember the Helsinki presser when Trump sold out his own country to side with Putin?

Do those 62% remember Trump tried to dismantle NATO?

Do those 62% remember Trump tried to blackmail the Zelensky in digging up dirt on Biden. (Impeachment #1)

I want to see that poll question asked again after reminding people what happened.

#NeverRemember. the mewling cry of the typical GOP gremlin
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,700
6,197
126
Fox has been telling the world that Biden is weak because the of Afghan pull-out. Seems he got their messaging.
A family member of mine expressed the opinion that Biden got out of Afghanistan because he saw the Ukrainian thing coming.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
864
98
91
Trump wanted to pull the US out of NATO.


he didn't strengthen our relationship with out allies, like Biden has, he severely damaged them.

There is a strong argument to be made that Trump actually strengthened NATO by threatening to pull the US out. Trump rightfully criticized Germany and other NATO allies for “freeriding” on US defense capabilities. At that time only 3 to 5 of NATO’s 29 member states were annually allocating the 2 percent of their gross domestic product (GDP) to military spending that they are formally committed to as part of the alliance.

Since then, ALL members pledged to reach the 2% level by 2024. Member countries have boosted defense spending considerably. NATO officials including the Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg have given credit to Trump for the rise in spending

IMO, Putin understood that Trump was unpredictable. Invading Ukraine while Trump was President was a far more risky proposition. Better to sit back selling oil, and building up Russian coffers (something Trump also warned against) to withstand future sanctions until a weaker, more predictable environment existed. With all of that stockpiled money and China watching his back, Putin really has no fear of Biden's sanction threats.

It's a good thing Ukraine got all of those Javelin missiles from Trump. Those missiles seem to have been key to holding back the invasion so far.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
There is a strong argument to be made that Trump actually strengthened NATO by threatening to pull the US out. Trump rightfully criticized Germany and other NATO allies for “freeriding” on US defense capabilities. At that time only 3 to 5 of NATO’s 29 member states were annually allocating the 2 percent of their gross domestic product (GDP) to military spending that they are formally committed to as part of the alliance.

Since then, ALL members pledged to reach the 2% level by 2024. Member countries have boosted defense spending considerably. NATO officials including the Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg have given credit to Trump for the rise in spending

IMO, Putin understood that Trump was unpredictable. Invading Ukraine while Trump was President was a far more risky proposition. Better to sit back selling oil, and building up Russian coffers (something Trump also warned against) to withstand future sanctions until a weaker, more predictable environment existed. With all of that stockpiled money and China watching his back, Putin really has no fear of Biden's sanction threats.

It's a good thing Ukraine got all of those Javelin missiles from Trump. Those missiles seem to have been key to holding back the invasion so far.

lol--only because his blackmail scheme was exposed, leading to his impeachment, which should have lead to his conviction, but hey. we've got a party full of America-hating traitors propping up that piece of shit and that garbage immoral ideology
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,700
6,197
126
That's a pretty big stretch. Trump set the timetable for Afghanistan. I think Biden delayed that timetable a bit if I remember correctly.
I thought it was a stretch to attribute to that much forethought and common sense to an American President. When did we start thinking intelligently enough to get out of one war so we wouldn't have to fight on two fronts because we knew that second was coming? I just realize I could be wrong and was surprised by the fact that such a thought would have never entered my head. I do know it's not smart to think everybody else is stupid, however.
 
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