62% of Voters think Putin Would Not Invade if Trump was President

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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,598
29,301
136
I thought it was a stretch to attribute to that much forethought and common sense to an American President. When did we start thinking intelligently enough to get out of one war so we wouldn't have to fight on two fronts because we knew that second was coming? I just realize I could be wrong and was surprised by the fact that such a thought would have never entered my head. I do know it's not smart to think everybody else is stupid, however.
Well I suppose it wouldn't just be Biden. He has teams and teams of people advising him like every president before him except one. I could see it possible that they knew this was coming long ago, but again, Trump set the timetable long before Biden got near the WH.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,333
15,128
136
There is a strong argument to be made that Trump actually strengthened NATO by threatening to pull the US out. Trump rightfully criticized Germany and other NATO allies for “freeriding” on US defense capabilities. At that time only 3 to 5 of NATO’s 29 member states were annually allocating the 2 percent of their gross domestic product (GDP) to military spending that they are formally committed to as part of the alliance.

Since then, ALL members pledged to reach the 2% level by 2024. Member countries have boosted defense spending considerably. NATO officials including the Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg have given credit to Trump for the rise in spending

IMO, Putin understood that Trump was unpredictable. Invading Ukraine while Trump was President was a far more risky proposition. Better to sit back selling oil, and building up Russian coffers (something Trump also warned against) to withstand future sanctions until a weaker, more predictable environment existed. With all of that stockpiled money and China watching his back, Putin really has no fear of Biden's sanction threats.

It's a good thing Ukraine got all of those Javelin missiles from Trump. Those missiles seem to have been key to holding back the invasion so far.

Sorry that’s inaccurate, both bush and Obama put pressure on NATO members to increase their spending during their terms.



 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,598
29,301
136
There is a strong argument to be made that Trump actually strengthened NATO by threatening to pull the US out. Trump rightfully criticized Germany and other NATO allies for “freeriding” on US defense capabilities. At that time only 3 to 5 of NATO’s 29 member states were annually allocating the 2 percent of their gross domestic product (GDP) to military spending that they are formally committed to as part of the alliance.

Since then, ALL members pledged to reach the 2% level by 2024. Member countries have boosted defense spending considerably. NATO officials including the Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg have given credit to Trump for the rise in spending

IMO, Putin understood that Trump was unpredictable. Invading Ukraine while Trump was President was a far more risky proposition. Better to sit back selling oil, and building up Russian coffers (something Trump also warned against) to withstand future sanctions until a weaker, more predictable environment existed. With all of that stockpiled money and China watching his back, Putin really has no fear of Biden's sanction threats.

It's a good thing Ukraine got all of those Javelin missiles from Trump. Those missiles seem to have been key to holding back the invasion so far.
The two(?) Javelin systems that he fought and attached a rider saying "not to be used against Putin"? You're giving Trump credit for that? Really?
 
Nov 17, 2019
11,292
6,714
136
Well, Vlad lost his prime intelligence asset at 1600, so maybe he felt he had nothing else to lose? i guess an argument could be made that he wouldn't have taken this step if that asset was still in place.
 
Reactions: hal2kilo

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,548
13,115
136
How can the retarded fat bastard still push the big lie without consequences? Surely he is liable for something???
 
Reactions: Lezunto

RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
864
98
91
Sorry that’s inaccurate, both bush and Obama put pressure on NATO members to increase their spending during their terms.





President Donald Trump "is committed to NATO" and deserves credit in obtaining $100 billion more in defense spending for the alliance, Jens Stoltenberg, the secretary general of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, said Sunday.

"President Trump has been very clear: He is committed to NATO. He stated that clearly just a few days ago and also at the NATO summit in July," Stoltenberg said on "Fox News Sunday."

Stoltenberg's comment stands in contrast to Democrats who fear Trump wants to pull out of NATO, and some who have expressed concern he could be undermining the military alliance because it benefits Russian President Vladimir Putin.


I said nothing inaccurate. Bush and Obama may have pressed but Trump got results.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136

President Donald Trump "is committed to NATO" and deserves credit in obtaining $100 billion more in defense spending for the alliance, Jens Stoltenberg, the secretary general of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, said Sunday.

"President Trump has been very clear: He is committed to NATO. He stated that clearly just a few days ago and also at the NATO summit in July," Stoltenberg said on "Fox News Sunday."

Stoltenberg's comment stands in contrast to Democrats who fear Trump wants to pull out of NATO, and some who have expressed concern he could be undermining the military alliance because it benefits Russian President Vladimir Putin.


I said nothing inaccurate. Bush and Obama may have pressed but Trump got results.
Remember, the Trump administration lied about everything.


As for why Putin didn’t attack Ukraine it wasn’t because he was afraid of Trump. Trump was his lap dog! By far the most likely answer is Trump was destroying NATO for him and he didn’t want to do anything that might impede that.

Oh and those javelins Trump ‘gave’ Ukraine? Those are the weapons he tried to blackmail Ukraine with so they would launch a sham investigation into Biden. I hope people have a better understanding of why he needed to be impeached and removed for that. We are seeing what sort of consequences he was toying with.
 

RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
864
98
91
The two(?) Javelin systems that he fought and attached a rider saying "not to be used against Putin"? You're giving Trump credit for that? Really?


That first sale, which was completed in March 2018, included 210 Javelin missiles and 37 launch units and was intended to "help Ukraine build its long-term defense capacity to defend its sovereignty and territorial integrity in order to meet its national defense requirements," according to the Defense Security Cooperation Agency.

Trump did, initially resist selling the Javelins but the Trump administration did approve the provision of arms to Ukraine, including sniper rifles, rocket launchers and Javelin anti-tank missiles, something long sought by Ukraine. The rider to keep them in the west of Ukraine and not use them in an attack on Russia was common sense to avoid Putin claiming provocation. The same reason Ukraine didn't get lethal weapons from the previous administration. Yes, I'm giving credit that those missiles, even with the rider, have been a key part of holding off the invasion.
 

RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
864
98
91
Remember, the Trump administration lied about everything.


As for why Putin didn’t attack Ukraine it wasn’t because he was afraid of Trump. Trump was his lap dog! By far the most likely answer is Trump was destroying NATO for him and he didn’t want to do anything that might impede that.

Oh and those javelins Trump ‘gave’ Ukraine? Those are the weapons he tried to blackmail Ukraine with so they would launch a sham investigation into Biden. I hope people have a better understanding of why he needed to be impeached and removed for that. We are seeing what sort of consequences he was toying with.

You ever get dizzy from the spin? LOL
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
Trump did, initially resist selling the Javelins but the Trump administration did approve the provision of arms to Ukraine, including sniper rifles, rocket launchers and Javelin anti-tank missiles, something long sought by Ukraine. The rider to keep them in the west of Ukraine and not use them in an attack on Russia was common sense to avoid Putin claiming provocation. The same reason Ukraine didn't get lethal weapons from the previous administration. Yes, I'm giving credit that those missiles, even with the rider, have been a key part of holding off the invasion.

lol, so that's what we're calling blackmail now?

"resist selling"

 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136

That first sale, which was completed in March 2018, included 210 Javelin missiles and 37 launch units and was intended to "help Ukraine build its long-term defense capacity to defend its sovereignty and territorial integrity in order to meet its national defense requirements," according to the Defense Security Cooperation Agency.

Trump did, initially resist selling the Javelins but the Trump administration did approve the provision of arms to Ukraine, including sniper rifles, rocket launchers and Javelin anti-tank missiles, something long sought by Ukraine. The rider to keep them in the west of Ukraine and not use them in an attack on Russia was common sense to avoid Putin claiming provocation. The same reason Ukraine didn't get lethal weapons from the previous administration. Yes, I'm giving credit that those missiles, even with the rider, have been a key part of holding off the invasion.
And by ‘resist’ you mean ‘impeached because he illegally withheld them from Ukraine in the hopes they would agree to manufacture an investigation into his political rivals’.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,333
15,128
136

President Donald Trump "is committed to NATO" and deserves credit in obtaining $100 billion more in defense spending for the alliance, Jens Stoltenberg, the secretary general of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, said Sunday.

"President Trump has been very clear: He is committed to NATO. He stated that clearly just a few days ago and also at the NATO summit in July," Stoltenberg said on "Fox News Sunday."

Stoltenberg's comment stands in contrast to Democrats who fear Trump wants to pull out of NATO, and some who have expressed concern he could be undermining the military alliance because it benefits Russian President Vladimir Putin.


I said nothing inaccurate. Bush and Obama may have pressed but Trump got results.

Thanks for not bothering to read the links I provided!
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
9,388
4,628
136
What’s with the rotating door of orange monkey defenders these past few days??? Guess they rather tag in the next moron to give the last one a rest after spewing so many lies. But all of them combined haven’t been telling as many as Putin and his loyal butt kissers.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
Russian propagandists are working double time these days…

My Qniece, and all Qs for that matter, claim that Putin is not invading Ukraine. Thats all fake left wing media propaganda. Qs claim that Putin is actually saving Ukraine by only going after military targets In Ukraine. So the bombs and the video of fleeing Ukrainians is all CGI Hollywood special effects to fool the world.
And I wondered if the Qs claim this while lined up along Dealey Plaza waiting for JFK to come along?
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,181
5,642
146
Thanks for not bothering to read the links I provided!

Just another full of shit right winger. Its genuinely sad they think they're offering valid political discourse when they can't even be bothered to learn basic information about pretty much anything they ever claim to even give a shit about. They just immediately start with what they believe (no matter how stupid or insane it is) and then if they bother to do any research at all just look at things they think support that and ignore anything that doesn't.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,181
5,642
146
What’s with the rotating door of orange monkey defenders these past few days??? Guess they rather tag in the next moron to give the last one a rest after spewing so many lies. But all of them combined haven’t been telling as many as Putin and his loyal butt kissers.

We got the same thing when Turmp sucked Putin off at that one summit.

Its because they somehow believe Turmp is some strongman that would've taken on Putin (who they actually love as well), despite, you know Turmp sucking his dick and the walk of shame being shown for the whole world to see. But they've got to keep pretending or the entire sham they've bought into will fall to pieces on them. Same as cult members denying when they start hearing about the horrible shit they've been enabling.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,658
5,228
136
https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...y-putin-wouldnt-have-invaded-ukraine-if-trump

Are you kidding me? Trump spent the whole time setting up Putin to invade. Didn't realize that 62% of American Voters were that out of touch with reality.

I forgot to add that Trump would be sucking Putin's c**k while Russia was invading Ukraine.

Perhaps. Trump would be so busy capitulating, writing love letters, pulling out of NATO, Putin wouldn't need to fight because we were giving it away for free.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136

That first sale, which was completed in March 2018, included 210 Javelin missiles and 37 launch units and was intended to "help Ukraine build its long-term defense capacity to defend its sovereignty and territorial integrity in order to meet its national defense requirements," according to the Defense Security Cooperation Agency.

Trump did, initially resist selling the Javelins but the Trump administration did approve the provision of arms to Ukraine, including sniper rifles, rocket launchers and Javelin anti-tank missiles, something long sought by Ukraine. The rider to keep them in the west of Ukraine and not use them in an attack on Russia was common sense to avoid Putin claiming provocation. The same reason Ukraine didn't get lethal weapons from the previous administration. Yes, I'm giving credit that those missiles, even with the rider, have been a key part of holding off the invasion.
That so called "resist selling" was the blackmail to get dirt on Biden.

Are you just forgetting or lying?
 

RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
864
98
91
And by ‘resist’ you mean ‘impeached because he illegally withheld them from Ukraine in the hopes they would agree to manufacture an investigation into his political rivals’.

I think we may be discussing 2 separate incidents.

A couple of questions:

When did Trump first approve sending Javelin missile to Ukraine and when where Javelin missiles first delivered to Ukraine?

When did the withholding/delay in Ukraine aid that led to Trump's impeachment happen?
 

RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
864
98
91
That so called "resist selling" was the blackmail to get dirt on Biden.

Are you just forgetting or lying?

Trump resisted providing Javelin missiles, as did Obama. Obama resisted because he thought it was too provocative. Trump resisted because he wanted Ukraine to pay for them. Trump eventually went along with the deal after assurances that Ukraine would buy in the future and that it would be good for the US as well as Ukraine.

Trump approved sending Javelin missiles late in 2017. The first Javelin missiles were delivered in early 2018.

The aid delay which led to impeachment happened, if I remember correctly, sometime in July of 2019.
 

RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
864
98
91
nope
lol, now you're calling his blackmail via political dirt: "wanted Ukraine to pay for them."

why are you being so obtuse?

If you'd just deal with the actual facts of the matter like everyone else is, people might take you more seriously.

Obtuse? Pot meet kettle.

As I've clearly stated, the delay which I was referencing and the delivery of Javelin missiles both happened more than a year before the "blackmail" you are referencing.
 
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