It's hard for a cult to face reality.How can the retarded fat bastard still push the big lie without consequences? Surely he is liable for something???
Yes. Stop it.You ever get dizzy from the spin? LOL
I hard for a cult to face reality.
You ever get dizzy from the spin? LOL
But then the delivery of additional missiles was made conditional on creating a sham investigation.Obtuse? Pot meet kettle.
As I've clearly stated, the delay which I was referencing and the delivery of Javelin missiles both happened more than a year before the "blackmail" you are referencing.
I need to edit my post.If I address the people of fucktown, in the town square, that you, hal2kilo, is a thief adulterer killer and a worshipper of satan -without evidence- and that good people of fucktown should tie a rock to your feet and drop you in a lake....
Could you not sue me?
But then the delivery of additional missiles was made conditional on creating a sham investigation.
I also don't think any rational person could call it anything other than blackmail. He was very clear that Ukraine needed to use its security services for Trump's personal benefit as 'payment' for those missiles. That's why he was impeached.
And with that bit of fuckery… <plonk>.Yeah, I've got no disagreement with you on calling it blackmail. We might disagree somewhat on intentions but withholding the aid package in 2019 was not right to say the least.
He was clearly stating that Ukraine needed to use its security services to investigate corruption tied to his political opponents which most likely would have been to Trump's personal benefit. I would love to see some of that corruption exposed but it's my opinion that, in this case, the end would not have justified the means Trump chose.
He was not - in fact he was clearly saying he just wanted them to announce an investigation.Yeah, I've got no disagreement with you on calling it blackmail. We might disagree somewhat on intentions but withholding the aid package in 2019 was not right to say the least.
He was clearly stating that Ukraine needed to use its security services to investigate corruption tied to his political opponents which most likely would have been to Trump's personal benefit. I would love to see some of that corruption exposed but it's my opinion that, in this case, the end would not have justified the means Trump chose.
Disagree on intentions? Trading public assets for a personal favor? Why is the intent not clear to you?Yeah, I've got no disagreement with you on calling it blackmail. We might disagree somewhat on intentions but withholding the aid package in 2019 was not right to say the least.
He was clearly stating that Ukraine needed to use its security services to investigate corruption tied to his political opponents which most likely would have been to Trump's personal benefit. I would love to see some of that corruption exposed but it's my opinion that, in this case, the end would not have justified the means Trump chose.
He was not - in fact he was clearly saying he just wanted them to announce an investigation.
Seriously, you can’t possibly believe Trump gives a single shit about corruption.
For sure, how hard is it to say Trump held up deliveries for his own benefit?Corruption in general? Absolutely not. LOL Even his most ardent supporters couldn't say that with a straight face.
Trump cared about Trump. He was hoping for a chance to land some blows on those who were attacking him. Ukraine has long been a cesspool of corruption and the Bidens were deep in it. Exposing some of that corruption could have benefited Trump.
To try and get back on topic: Trump was, in fact, responsible for first providing the Javelin missiles that have been key to Ukraine defending against the invasion and those first missiles were delivered before Trump tried to force a quid pro quo from Ukraine on another aid package. Give blame where blame is due but also give credit where credit is due.
Yet another in the long line of coincidences.It sure is strange that Trump’s 2016 campaign manager was the campaign manager for the Kremlin’s preferred leader of Ukraine before he decided to come help Trump for free and that the only change they demanded to the 2016 GOP platform was to remove support for defensive weapons to Ukraine.
Just another event that conservative denialists will downplay, scoff at, and handwave off as a big nothingburger because, "So what?" and "What are you gonna do about it?"Yet another in the long line of coincidences.
It sure is strange that Trump’s 2016 campaign manager was the campaign manager for the Kremlin’s preferred leader of Ukraine before he decided to come help Trump for free and that the only change they demanded to the 2016 GOP platform was to remove support for defensive weapons to Ukraine.
I mean we genuinely don’t know and it could very well be there is a benign reason for the change like in your scenario. That being said, it still is an extraordinary coincidence that the ONLY change they cared about was that one.I have to admit I don't know enough about the topic to have a serious discussion. Until your comment, I had never heard that Manafort demanded the platform change. My recollection was that both Trump and Manafort denied having anything personally to do with the changes though I do accept that either or both could have been lying.
I know that the GOP platform change went from calling on the U.S. to provide Ukraine with "lethal defensive weapons" to the softened phrase of "appropriate assistance" and that the Trump campaign had been said to be responsible for the change.
At the time, many Republicans had been demanding the Obama administration provide a more robust response to Russia's incursions in Ukraine. The Obama administration was against providing lethal weapons and this seemed to be one issue where Trump and Obama were pretty much in agreement. I just assumed that the GOP changed the wording of their position because "appropriate assistance" said basically the same thing but sounded less provoking than "lethal defensive weapons."
Oh, and how is the progress going on getting my Trump Tower in Moscow?Trump is a useful idiot. He's been on record saying he wanted out of NATO. He weakened our alliances while in power. pulled us out of treaties (Open Skies for example). Trump’s time has contributed to the perception of US politicians under his grip be less than steadfast in opposing Putin’s machinations. Putin was hoping that Trump’s ham-handed diplomacy would actually result in NATO being severely weakened. That didn't happen. Trump is a walking talking security nightmare. Has no regard whatsoever for secrecy or security classification. Trump was undermining NATO and Ukraine throughout is term; we all saw that. Trump was manipulated into the campaign to get Marie Yovanovitch removed from her position as ambassador to Ukraine. Ironically, the two Russian agents, Parnas and Furman involved in this initially tried to do it the old-fashioned way - they funneled Trump a bunch of Russian money (They were arrested and charged for this) and then asked Trump to fire her. Trump said yes. This is on tape. But Trump didn’t fire her right away .Trump’s not traditionally corrupt in the quid pro quo way, because once he has his quid, you’re probably not getting your quo. So they had to resort to the things that work with Trump. "Mr Trump sir!……that Ambassador, she’s a Never-Trumper. She said bad things about you. She didn’t want to hang your picture in the embassy.
And that worked. He fired her.
I'm sure he was dragged kicking and screaming to the table to sign any arms deals to Ukraine. Throughout his term he resisted anything that would harm Putin/Russia. He has undermined Ukraine throughout his term. Trump is not very smart, and can be manipulated through flattery and strength. Trump only operates in one dimension… specifically, “me me me”. Trump as had closed door one on one secret meetings with Vlad. Someone like Putin is very willing to horse-trade with an easy mark like Trump, setting up some very favorable quids-pro-quo. Putin tells Trump to badmouth NATO, maybe even withdraw from it, attempt to starve Ukraine of military aid as long as possible, say nice things about Russia. In exchange, Putin then dangles some shiny objects that will distract Trump’s childlike mind, such as Joe Biden dirt, election propaganda assistance, Trump Tower Moscow, etc. Trumps a shitty strategist, and he’s too stupid to keep his mouth shut when he should. Putin was probably thrilled to set up some fool’s bargains with an easy mark like Trump. It's entirely plausible someone like Trump gave away sensitive information just for horse-trading purposes, but it’s equally likely that he sat down in a meeting with Putin and started blabbing just to show that’s he’s a tough guy who knows stuff.
Putin would have played someone like Trump like a fiddle:
“Don… I can call you Don since we’re buddies, right? You know I’m interested in making Ukraine great again.”
"You used MY slogan. MY tremendous slogan... Yeah sure whatever, I don’t give a shit. Hey have you got any more dirt on Sleepy Joe or Crooked Hillary?”
Anyone thinking Ukraine would be better off if Trump was still in power is delusional
I think we’ve established that a majority of the people in this country are morons (not just conservatives or rural voters either) so nothing surprises me any more.
Thats some hardcore math your subconscious is joggling to make all that solve. Impressive.
If Trump won re-election and is currently Pres:https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...y-putin-wouldnt-have-invaded-ukraine-if-trump
Are you kidding me? Trump spent the whole time setting up Putin to invade. Didn't realize that 62% of American Voters were that out of touch with reality.
I forgot to add that Trump would be sucking Putin's c**k while Russia was invading Ukraine.
Trump is a useful idiot. He's been on record saying he wanted out of NATO. He weakened our alliances while in power. pulled us out of treaties (Open Skies for example). Trump’s time has contributed to the perception of US politicians under his grip be less than steadfast in opposing Putin’s machinations. Putin was hoping that Trump’s ham-handed diplomacy would actually result in NATO being severely weakened. That didn't happen. Trump is a walking talking security nightmare. Has no regard whatsoever for secrecy or security classification. Trump was undermining NATO and Ukraine throughout is term; we all saw that. Trump was manipulated into the campaign to get Marie Yovanovitch removed from her position as ambassador to Ukraine. Ironically, the two Russian agents, Parnas and Furman involved in this initially tried to do it the old-fashioned way - they funneled Trump a bunch of Russian money (They were arrested and charged for this) and then asked Trump to fire her. Trump said yes. This is on tape. But Trump didn’t fire her right away .Trump’s not traditionally corrupt in the quid pro quo way, because once he has his quid, you’re probably not getting your quo. So they had to resort to the things that work with Trump. "Mr Trump sir!……that Ambassador, she’s a Never-Trumper. She said bad things about you. She didn’t want to hang your picture in the embassy.
And that worked. He fired her.
I'm sure he was dragged kicking and screaming to the table to sign any arms deals to Ukraine. Throughout his term he resisted anything that would harm Putin/Russia. He has undermined Ukraine throughout his term. Trump is not very smart, and can be manipulated through flattery and strength. Trump only operates in one dimension… specifically, “me me me”. Trump as had closed door one on one secret meetings with Vlad. Someone like Putin is very willing to horse-trade with an easy mark like Trump, setting up some very favorable quids-pro-quo. Putin tells Trump to badmouth NATO, maybe even withdraw from it, attempt to starve Ukraine of military aid as long as possible, say nice things about Russia. In exchange, Putin then dangles some shiny objects that will distract Trump’s childlike mind, such as Joe Biden dirt, election propaganda assistance, Trump Tower Moscow, etc. Trumps a shitty strategist, and he’s too stupid to keep his mouth shut when he should. Putin was probably thrilled to set up some fool’s bargains with an easy mark like Trump. It's entirely plausible someone like Trump gave away sensitive information just for horse-trading purposes, but it’s equally likely that he sat down in a meeting with Putin and started blabbing just to show that’s he’s a tough guy who knows stuff.
Putin would have played someone like Trump like a fiddle:
“Don… I can call you Don since we’re buddies, right? You know I’m interested in making Ukraine great again.”
"You used MY slogan. MY tremendous slogan... Yeah sure whatever, I don’t give a shit. Hey have you got any more dirt on Sleepy Joe or Crooked Hillary?”
Anyone thinking Ukraine would be better off if Trump was still in power is delusional