6400 vs 6600 gaming

[boozie]

I'm building a new computer for gaming and was wondering how much I'd benefit from the 6600 over the 6400. Most people would say take the extra 100 bucks and spend on better graphics card. Money aside how much boost will the extra cache really give me for gaming? Is there a chance in the future the need for the bigger cache will be greater?

I'm planning on midly overclocking whichever one I get (shooting for 400 fsb on 6400, and as good as I can get if I go 6600 which probably won't be up that high). Does fsb mean more in gaming than overall ghz?

My current computer is a p4 maxed out at 1 gig ram so I'm pretty much buying everything new.

 

[harpoon84]

Just grab the E6400 and put the money towards a better graphics card. In terms of pure fps it will gain more than a faster CPU will.

An E6600 is about 10 - 15% better overall. The extra cache helps in games, but not much, around 5% tops.

An E6400 @ 400FSB is hardly 'mild overclocking', its from 2.13GHz to 3.2GHz, a 1GHz+ overclock is not 'mild' by any means!
Although chances are you should hit such speeds without too much fuss, many people can even can do 400FSB or more on stock volts.

 

[akshayt]

After overclocking a E6400 might beat the E6600 in real world benchies because an E6400 is generally more overclockable.

 

[theteamaqua]

yeah couple things

1. if ur a gamer save ur money from cpu and put it on better graphics card. like getting E6400 instead and then u have $100 toward ur graphics bidget

2. if u already own AMD X2 cpus , there is no reason to upgrade to conroe if ur a gamer. the gain is not worth getting mobo, RAM and CPU again, which potentially costs from $600 (E6300 + DDR2 800 + GA-965-S3) to $1900 (X6800 + DDR2 1000 + P5WDG 2 WS PRO)

to be honest, i think pentioum D is enough for gaming at least until 2007. at high resolutions like 1280x1024 or above. u will see that cpus matters very little in terms of performance. for most games. Oblivion is prolly the most graphics/cpu intense game, and yeah at 1280x1024 cpus do matter a lot.

 

[misanthropy]

I keep hearing people suggest spending more money on the GPU than CPU. Since CPUs retain value longer than GPUs, wouldnt it make sense to spend more on the CPU if you plan on updating the GPU in a year or two anyway?

It depends on other priorities too. Perhaps you photoshop. Suppose you were building a rig now and you had a choice between say a E6600+7900GT or a X23800+X1900XTX rig, and you planned on updating your GPU for directx10 and vista in six months. In the long run with the former setup you'd get better performance.

Look at it this way: if you went with a single core solution and spent the rest on SLI, presently it'd be fast, but in the long run it'd hurt you.

 

[Sjokoprins]

If you buy a high-end vidcard and a low-end processor then likely the cpu is holding back the vidcard.
So what i mean is you should compare different cpus with a vidcard and vice versa.
Tomshardware has a nice vga-charts which will let you see the difference between same vidcard and different cpus and the other way around.
Ok it doesnt list all games but it gives you some indication of matching a cpu with some vidcards

For example i had an 6600 gt and an AMD64 3000+ (1,8 ghz)
When overclocked to 2.65 ghz most games got a boost of 30 % in fps (COD and HL2)
So i guess at 1.8 ghz it was holding back my vidcard for these particular games.
Now i have a 7800 gs because for more modern games the 6600 gt got outdated.

 

[boozie]

I'm trying to set myself up for long term so that's why I'm asking if I should get the 6600 instead. I don't see cpu cache playing a big role in gaming now, but what about a year or 2 from now?

I don't have any plans on running sli ever (lot of money for small gains imo). Probably only getting a 1950 pro and waiting a year or so before getting dx 10.

i've read 400 fsb isn't too hard to hit w/ air cooling on the 6400 so that was my goal, the 6600 however I dont' think will get near that. That's why I was wondering how much fsb matters for gaming. I'm assuming the 6600 would still trump the 6400 even w/ 50 mhz less fsb?

edit: thanks for the help guys

 

[MADMAX23]

boozie, in your situation, I would get an E6400 with no doubt, save the extra 100$ for a good vid card if what you're going to do with your Pc is, mainly, gaming.

Of course, having a FSB of 400 is way better (faster) than having a narrower one of 266 Mhz...you will notice the difference and your gaming sessions will benefit from that extra bandwidth/speed.

Hitting 400FSB on an ASUS P5B deluxe is really easy (it's the board I recommend you) and with an E6400 you'll have a system out of specs (3.2Ghz), faster than a stock X6800 (2.93 Ghz).
There is no need to get an E6600 or even a X6800 because most people, including me, are getting those higher speeds at stock volts (100% lifespan) or just with a minor voltage increase (80-90% lifespan)...trust me.

Good luck!

 

[deadseasquirrel]

It would help to know your overall budget for your new system, since you pretty much need everything new. What about a monitor? There's been a lot of talk so far about cache, CPU speed, mem bandwidth, etc and your monitor and playing resolution hasn't been mentioned once. That, truly, is the most important thing regarding your gaming. If you're stuck on a 17" old CRT monitor at 800x600, then my advice would be completely different than if you were using one of those fancy-schmancy 30" Dell LCDs.

As for the cache and CPU performance, Firing Squad did a little test using the BF2142 Beta. As you can see, if you're gaming at higher resolutions with AA and AF, there really is no difference in the CPUs. So, go cheap, grab the 6400 and pair it with a good video card and strong psu and you should be good. Again, it would help to know your budget.

And, honestly, depending on what the rest of your system looks like right now, and what resolution you play at, your Pentium D is likely fine right now if matched up with a good graphics card. You could hold off a few more months, wait for DX10 and Vista to fly out of the gate, see if Quad-cores drop the price of C2D any, and upgrade it all at that time.

 

[boozie]

Well the thing is, i'm running on a agp mobo and can't upgrade my ram and want to play coh (multiplayer) and bf2142, i can currently get by on bf2 at bad resolution. My current agp card is an invidia fx 5200 128 mb. I don't want to buy another agp card. I have around 1500 to spend on everything for a new comp. I can go as high as I want, but really don't wanna spend more than 1700. Don't need monitor/keyboard/mouse.

I was thinking about waiting like maybe another month, but i'm getting anxious to stop reading reviews and actually buy something.

Current monitor is bad but i'll probably be upgrading that around christmas time.

 

[Dethfrumbelo]

You should be able to build about as fast a rig as you can get with a $1500 budget and still have some left over.

I would advise waiting that extra month, though - the 8800GTX/S will be released Nov 7-8.

E6400 - $230
ASUS P5B - $150
8800GTS - $450-$500
2GB DDR2 - at least $250 (this is what really hurts, maybe in a month DDR2 prices will be more reasonable)
CPU heatsink/fans - $50


Total between $1100 and $1200. CPU prices will fall a bit also as Intel brings quad cores and AMD starts providing competition.

 

[boozie]

well you leave out some other important pieces though.

I agree w/ most of the parts you list. But I was planning on getting a 74gb raptor now ($170ish), maybe getting a second one down the road and run raid 0. (i don't have a problem formatting if I have to).

Also I will be needing a tower and I was planning on the thermaltake armor because it's a beast and that way I dont' ahve to worry about hot air being trapped or big heatsinks/gpu's fitting in my case. That'll run me around 140.

PSU is where I know pretty close to nothing about. I figure no SLI but with overclocking will cost me around 500W (do I need more????) and somehwere around $80 for something nice unless someone can suggest something that'll work.

All these other things considered I was thinking about getting a cheaper gpu for now and upgrade in 6 months - 1 year. The 1950 pro is releaseing end of nov and looks like it's just slightly behind the 1900xt 256 mb. I could easily sell the card when I upgrade for a decent amount of money too so it's not entirely wasted.

If you think it's not worth getting the dx9 card then I may just flat out wait for vista to get a comp because I will be buying windows xp cd also.

It's hard to decide because cutting edge technology is always around the corner in this business and you have to pull the trigger some time.

Thanks again for all the feedback.

 

[Clones123]

I've spent weeks researching a system build with the same budget as you and come up with the following:

ASUS P5B Deluxe......................................$195
C2D E6400 2.13GHz (x8 multiplier)...........$220
Crucial Ballistix DDR2 800 (Micron IC's)....varies
XFX Geforce 7900GT 256MB.....................$216 ($40 rebate expires 10/25/06)
Silverstone SST-ST50EF 500W PSU............$69
Zalman CPNS9500 AT CPU cooler.............$48
Zalman VF900-CU GPU Cooler..................$37
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 320 GB..........$85
PowerColor Theater 550 PRO PCI-e...........$70
Antec SOLO ATX Mid Tower.......................$90
2x Antec Tricool DBB 92mm Case Fan........$16
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound...............$6
Round IDE cable..........................................$4

There are a TON of hidden gotchas with all the possible configuration permutations. Finding DDR2 RAM was particular vexing - prices are sky high right now and it's hard to know if you're buying ProMOS, Infineon, Elpida, Micron or some other IC's. It's recently become difficult to find good deals on value-priced RAM that can be easily overclocked to 800-900MHz territory. Increasingly, what you buy is all you get without a lot of headroom for overclocking.

Corsair's recent RAM using ProMOS IC's isn't known for overclocking the way their older product using Micron IC's was. Micron IC's typically carry the best speed, timings and voltage so I went with Crucial to guarranty that Micron IC's is what I'd get (with 4-4-4-12 timings at 800Mhz plus). I caught a sale but for a little more money, Team Group PC6400 RAM from TankGuys.biz uses Micron D9 chips speed-binned to very good timings/voltages.

 

[deadseasquirrel]

Originally posted by: boozie
Well the thing is, i'm running on a agp mobo and can't upgrade my ram and want to play coh (multiplayer) and bf2142, i can currently get by on bf2 at bad resolution. My current agp card is an invidia fx 5200 128 mb. I don't want to buy another agp card. I have around 1500 to spend on everything for a new comp. I can go as high as I want, but really don't wanna spend more than 1700. Don't need monitor/keyboard/mouse.

I was thinking about waiting like maybe another month, but i'm getting anxious to stop reading reviews and actually buy something.

Current monitor is bad but i'll probably be upgrading that around christmas time.

I understand not wanting another AGP card. Why buy dying technology? I agree. However, you're in a tough spot. You need a completely brand new system AND a new monitor, all for around $1500. And the fact that you want it pretty much now makes things difficult too (with new cards being launched, etc).

Oh, before I forget, scratch the Raptop. Waste of money.

Back to the AGP card thing. Take, for example, this AGP card from Newegg for a little over $200. It absolutely blows away your 5200. You can see that it would perform ok in BF2142 here across several resolutions.

Not trying to talk you out of building a new rig here. Just don't fully blow off AGP cards because you have a 5200. That's like saying the Ford GT is a piece of junk because you drove a Pinto once back in highschool and it was bad.

 

[boozie]

Just to point out, the 1500 is not including a monitor. I'm thinking I may try to get it for xmas or just spend extra money when they're on sale. 1 gig is shady territory for newer games.

 

[VooDooAddict]

Your Geforce 5200 is what's killing you! While they are stable ... they are one of the worst performing GPUs you can possibly use.

Keep that AGP rig running till after Vista and DX10. Here are 4 possible video cards that would drasticly improve your current rig for under $200!

Any of these cards will make your system feel completely different in any modern game. (Battlefield 2 or Battlefield 2142 will simply Rock up wih the X850Pro Unlocked)

Unlockable X850Pro AGP for @ $120 (Most have unlocked it to full X850XT) - This card is a steel
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102606

X1650Pro AGP @ $140
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161033

7600GS AGP @ $125
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150190

7600GT AGP @ $180
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150200



How fast is your P4?

 

[TheTeacher]

FORGET SAVING THE MONEY!!! Buy the e6600!!! If you get the e6400 you will NOT be happy with it. The whole time you use it, in the back of your mind a little voice will always be saying you need that 2MB cache and extra clock, even if you are OCing. Besides unless you get a really good OC board, you will have a problem maxing out the e6400.

Just my 2 cents. I got an e6400 from wowza here... Shoulda got an e6600!

 

[boozie]

my p4 is 2.53 ghz. I'm running on a intel mobo (can't oc anything) and I also (don't completely understand this) am running with a 4x slot for agp. It's agp version 3.0 but it says my max transfer rate is 4x. Taking that into account is it still worth the new card?


And teacher I completely understand what you're saying. My paranoia of that pre-purchase is what made me start this post in the first place. However I haven't had a good gaming rig pretty much ever. Unless you count a 66mhz dx2. That thing still runs like a champ. But seriously I just got rid of win ME on my computer i've been using for about 5 years now. I'm pretty new to computers and think that i'll be happy and impressed w/ any c2d. It appears as though the cache doesn't make much difference at higher resolutions so I'm starting to lean towards the 6400.

 

[coolpurplefan]

You could build an OK machine now and upgrade later. Like, get a good case, power supply, etc
and a cheap AMD single core 3800+ and a cheap 7600 GT then next year you can upgrade to Windows Vista and get a dual or quad core and a Geforce 8 or ATI equivalent.

I'm betting the next generation ATI will be better as well as the AMD quad core. That would be great with DDR3 RAM, Vista and UT2007.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: VooDooAddict
Your Geforce 5200 is what's killing you! While they are stable ... they are one of the worst performing GPUs you can possibly use.

Keep that AGP rig running till after Vista and DX10. Here are 4 possible video cards that would drasticly improve your current rig for under $200!

Any of these cards will make your system feel completely different in any modern game. (Battlefield 2 or Battlefield 2142 will simply Rock up wih the X850Pro Unlocked)

Unlockable X850Pro AGP for @ $120 (Most have unlocked it to full X850XT) - This card is a steel
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102606

X1650Pro AGP @ $140
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161033

7600GS AGP @ $125
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150190

7600GT AGP @ $180
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150200



How fast is your P4?

VooDooAddict,

Thanks bud, I have a horribly outdated system IMO - 2.6GHz Northwood + FX 5600 vid card - but want to hold out ever so slightly longer to get E6600 + DX10 and I really appreciate the links to the AGP based 7600GT which is dual-DVI (I run dual LCD's).

Very helpful, thanks for link

- Phil

 

[coolpurplefan]

I just had a look at tom's hardware benchmarks and I don't know what to think.

For one, BF2 will use 4GB in Vista and new mobo/RAM/CPU/vid card is expensive.

I have a Geforce 6600, AMD 3700+ and 2GB OCZ Platinum RAM. I think the only thing I could do to save money next year is just to buy a new video card. That means my setup may not play UT2007 at the high settings but a quad core, DDR3 RAM and another motherboard would just be way more expensive.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: coolpurplefan
I just had a look at tom's hardware benchmarks and I don't know what to think.

For one, BF2 will use 4GB in Vista and new mobo/RAM/CPU/vid card is expensive.

I have a Geforce 6600, AMD 3700+ and 2GB OCZ Platinum RAM. I think the only thing I could do to save money next year is just to buy a new video card. That means my setup may not play UT2007 at the high settings but a quad core, DDR3 RAM and another motherboard would just be way more expensive.

Your system is mostly being bottlenecked by your video card. Of course, if you get a much faster card, then it will be bottlenecked by your processor, unless you overclock it. Just remember, every system has a bottleneck, alot have more than one.

 

[boozie]

Originally posted by: VooDooAddict
Your Geforce 5200 is what's killing you! While they are stable ... they are one of the worst performing GPUs you can possibly use.

Keep that AGP rig running till after Vista and DX10. Here are 4 possible video cards that would drasticly improve your current rig for under $200!

Any of these cards will make your system feel completely different in any modern game. (Battlefield 2 or Battlefield 2142 will simply Rock up wih the X850Pro Unlocked)

Unlockable X850Pro AGP for @ $120 (Most have unlocked it to full X850XT) - This card is a steel
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102606

X1650Pro AGP @ $140
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814161033

7600GS AGP @ $125
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150190

7600GT AGP @ $180
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150200

I'm kind of new to computers. Will the power cord that I use in my 5200 connect to the x850pro all the same? How do I tell if It will work w/ my power supply if not?

 

[coolpurplefan]

Originally posted by: boozie

Originally posted by: VooDooAddict

I'm kind of new to computers. Will the power cord that I use in my 5200 connect to the x850pro all the same? How do I tell if It will work w/ my power supply if not?

How many watts does your PSU have^ I'd say you need minimum maybe 400 watt Fortron but you need to have like over 20 A on your 12V rail.
I don't know if your video card has a PCI-E power connector or not. If your PSU doesn't have one well...

 

[boozie]

the psu is 400-450 and as far as i know there's no connector

edit: i'm really not sure about the A. I'll have to figure out what exact psu I have.