Info 64MB V-Cache on 5XXX Zen3 Average +15% in Games

[Kedas]

Well we know now how they will bridge the long wait to Zen4 on AM5 Q4 2022.
Production start for V-cache is end this year so too early for Zen4 so this is certainly coming to AM4.
+15% Lisa said is "like an entire architectural generation"

 

[Hans Gruber]

Hans, bubbie... darling... its more a matter of why would I bother ponying up the cash for newer stuff for a 1700 on x370? Up until very recently they were not supported for Zen3 chips. So why bother? Maybe if I put my 3700x in there or 2700x. I suppose I will finally be motivated to test that mobo with anything besides the $200 16gb FlareX I ended up buying for it. Hell, even my x570 mobo with the 3700x seemed to be cranky with the ddr4-3000 ram I installed. I think default had it at 2666mhz.

After awhile you just lose interest in wasting more time on it. Maybe with all the parts out of cases I should take each gen cpu I have and test it in the x370, b450 and x570 boards I have.

Also, honestly, name me a good kit of 3600 speed ram or better, 32gb (16x2) that is worth the upgrade from 3200 gskill rgb stuff I have. RGB preferred since this will ultimately go into the bling box with disco lights running the 5900x.

If you have E-Die Sticks or B-Die sticks, the memory speed rating out of the box doesn't really matter. If you are buying Hynix memory 3600mhz rated memory is a minimum in my book. There was a Micron E-die memory kit for $90 for 32GB a few months ago direct from Micron. If stuff like that pops up, you have to buy it.

I have a set of B-Die Team Group Dark Pro sticks from way back in late 2017 or early 2018. This was before they charged a premium for the Samsung memory. Those sticks have the heaviest thickest all metal heat spreaders that I have even seen in my life.

The only reason to upgrade memory is either crazy low prices or getting dual rank 16GB modules for 32GB total vs. 16GB total with 2x 8GB sticks. There are some who want 64GB of ram.

 

[igor_kavinski]

There are some who want 64GB of ram.

Wrong. There are some like me who want 256GB if they will sell it to me. Internet browsing with 100+ tabs demands RAM!

 

[sdifox]

Wrong. There are some like me who want 256GB if they will sell it to me. Internet browsing with 100+ tabs demands RAM!

X570 maxes out at 128GB though.

 

[Mopetar]

IF someone manages to OC that beast to 5 Ghz, we are getting into Ridicule FPS numbers here. Zen 4 is Supposed to beat this new King? Will his reign be that short?

I doubt there will be much OC headroom for this. First of all, Zen 3 didn't OC well to begin with. This chip has some headroom since the clocks are lower, but AMD has limited the voltage more than with regular Zen 3 so you'll be limited. Really though just getting the top single core boost a bit higher will have a big payoff since it's limited to gaming.

Zen 4 had a few ways to attack Zen 3D to either catch up or even pull ahead. We already know it will have higher clock speeds and fastest single thread still drives performance in a lot of games. There will also be IPC improvements and even if they're small they get multiplied by the faster clocks to create a compound effect. I believe the L2 cache is also a bit larger which isn't quite the same as having a massive v-cache, but does help a bit. AMD themselves said Zen 3D was 10-15% better on average than a 5900X so it's not impossible for Zen 4 to hit those numbers. It might not always win since there are some outliers where Zen 3D puts up some really crazy numbers, but it also likely has some titles where it sees almost no gains.

Even if Zen 4 isn't quite as good, AMD will eventually launch Zen 4D so anyone specifically in the market for a dedicated gaming CPU will eventually have a top choice that doesn't lock them in to an old platform. If AMD sits on their hands Intel always has the ability to come out with something and steal the crown back.

 

[igor_kavinski]

X570 maxes out at 128GB though.

Yeah. Really sucks. X299 seems like an option. Pay a lot for old tech.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Yes and I think some people forget this. Zen in particular was bad, so I have heard.

I think I had DDR4-3466 on my 1800x, but that was pretty rare.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Hans, bubbie... darling... its more a matter of why would I bother ponying up the cash for newer stuff for a 1700 on x370? Up until very recently they were not supported for Zen3 chips. So why bother?

I just got a 5700X as an upgrade for my X370 Crosshair VI + 1700. Should be a very decent performance upgrade, and it'll give that board another 5+ years of use + full Win11 compatibility eventually. I think that excellent value.

 

[nicalandia]

I just got a 5700X as an upgrade for my X370 Crosshair VI + 1700. Should be a very decent performance upgrade, and it'll give that board another 5+ years of use + full Win11 compatibility eventually. I think that excellent value.

That is the Biggest understatement I have seen recently. a 5600 non-x should be a Clear/Decent Upgrade from a 1700. Poor 1700 were very poor overclockers(mine capped at 3.9 no matter how much v core I fed him) a 5600 will bully it at ST(50%+ performance boost) and even at MT will be the Superior. 5700X is a 5800X in Eco-mode and it's a Top Tier CPU today

 

[Makaveli]

Wrong. There are some like me who want 256GB if they will sell it to me. Internet browsing with 100+ tabs demands RAM!

You would be pretty brave to be using 256GB of Non ECC memory.

 

[Kuiva maa]

I think I had DDR4-3466 on my 1800x, but that was pretty rare.

It was fairly common for CH6 board/Samsung b-die combo. In fact with these two I had 3200CL14 timings at launch day even, clearly outperforming all launch review gaming results.

 

[Ranulf]

I just got a 5700X as an upgrade for my X370 Crosshair VI + 1700. Should be a very decent performance upgrade, and it'll give that board another 5+ years of use + full Win11 compatibility eventually. I think that excellent value.

No doubt it is a good upgrade if you have a mobo that supports it. I hope it works for all who get bios updates. Now, if I'd just held onto that x370/1700 system and not taken AMD at their word that no support could or would exist for the zen3 chips I might be more inclined to do an upgrade, at sub $250. Since I already have other newer mobos I'd rather use them with the newer am4 cpus.

 

[DrMrLordX]

It was fairly common for CH6 board/Samsung b-die combo. In fact with these two I had 3200CL14 timings at launch day even, clearly outperforming all launch review gaming results.

Mine was a Taichi with DDR4-3733 b-die.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

That is the Biggest understatement I have seen recently. a 5600 non-x should be a Clear/Decent Upgrade from a 1700. Poor 1700 were very poor overclockers(mine capped at 3.9 no matter how much v core I fed him) a 5600 will bully it at ST(50%+ performance boost) and even at MT will be the Superior. 5700X is a 5800X in Eco-mode and it's a Top Tier CPU today

1700's always had poor single thread performance. Partly due to low clocks, but also due to the way Precision Boost is implemented on them. Zen1 can only turbo 2 cores at once, hit more and frequency drops at once to base. Zen1+ have the proper implementation, where it'll turbo as many cores as high as it can. I think this was due to time crunch before launch, AMD didn't have time to refine PBO the first time round.

My 3600non-X have about twice the single threaded performance, while being on par in MT. Despite having two cores less. Zen1 was really a first-gen product with all the quirks that entails.

I already touched how poor memory overclocking is on my particular 1700, I think that is the general consensus.

Anyway, I really look forward for once to do this build over Easter. 5700X + 48GB 3200MHz RAM and a 6600XT should be a pretty decent gamer.

 

[nicalandia]

I really look forward for once to do this build over Easter. 5700X + 48GB 3200MHz RAM and a 6600XT should be a pretty decent gamer.

That is a Top Tier PC build right there that will last you for many years and even then you could just upgrade the GPU because the 8C/16T will have enough grunt to feed any GPU

 

[igor_kavinski]

You would be pretty brave to be using 256GB of Non ECC memory.

I don't do anything critical. Just like to keep tons of tabs open. 256GB just seems like the amount I think I would have a better chance of not maxing out. Either that, or I need to get a really expensive Optane drive, so when the paging happens, it doesn't cause the system to crawl to a halt.

 

[igor_kavinski]

The problem for existing 5000 series gamers now is to avoid the temptation of pulling the trigger on the 5800X3D.

 

[scannall]

The problem for existing 5000 series gamers now is to avoid the temptation of pulling the trigger on the 5800X3D.

I have a 2600X in one of my machines, and I am considering either a 5600 or a 5600X for it. My machine with the 5800 is just fine as it is.

 

[Makaveli]

I don't do anything critical. Just like to keep tons of tabs open. 256GB just seems like the amount I think I would have a better chance of not maxing out. Either that, or I need to get a really expensive Optane drive, so when the paging happens, it doesn't cause the system to crawl to a halt.

What is the need for having 100+ tabs open? Sounds like you never close your browser ever so it just sitting there eating memory.

I've never understood that use case.

 

[sdifox]

I don't do anything critical. Just like to keep tons of tabs open. 256GB just seems like the amount I think I would have a better chance of not maxing out. Either that, or I need to get a really expensive Optane drive, so when the paging happens, it doesn't cause the system to crawl to a halt.

I doubt you can notice paging to ssd

 

[igor_kavinski]

I doubt you can notice paging to ssd

I have a WD Green SSD in the Thinkpad I use mainly for browsing. And I have a Samsung 860 EVO at work in a 16GB RAM Haswell PC where in Edge browser, something as low as 30 tabs cause VERY noticeable paging delays. The system just starts pausing as it thrashes the SSD. Browsers are just so inefficient. I'm actually amazed at how better the 240GB WD Green handles my hundreds of tabs than the 500GB 860 EVO.

I really want to get the Kingston DC500M for my Thinkpad. I think the guaranteed response times might make the showstopping paging less of an issue. Just been constantly debating between 480GB and 3840GB. I might go for the latter. But it will be a noticeable hit on my financials.

 

[igor_kavinski]

What is the need for having 100+ tabs open? Sounds like you never close your browser ever so it just sitting there eating memory.

I've never understood that use case.

I'm not alone. Browsers should logically put the inactive tabs to sleep and save their data to disk. But instead, they keep leaking memory. Just last night, I "end tasked" Firefox and my RAM went from 91% to 26%. Restored the tabs on relaunch. It's now at 43%. I didn't close any tabs. Actually opened quite a few more.

I think the people who have this "100+ tab" syndrome have a problem that can be solved with a to-do list in browsers. There are definitely tab management add-ons out there but too lazy and too busy to explore them. Plus, I don't want to depend on an add-on that might get abandoned by its developer at some point in the future.

 

[Doug S]

Getting 256GB because your browser leaks memory is crazy! Besides all that will do is delay the inevitable, you will still run out of memory it will just take longer.

At various times I've had several hundred tabs open in Firefox, and I've got "only" 16 GB on my Linux PC. Quick count right now it has 58 tabs open, and has been running since March 3. Not having any memory issues, though there have been times in the past when it slowed down and restarting Firefox fixed it - i.e. they've had memory leaks but have found/fixed them, then sometime later a new memory leak is introduced which is found/fixed in a later patch.

Not sure what you're doing that uses up memory so badly, maybe one of the sites you have running does something that leaks memory at a very high rate. If you could figure out which site that is you would file a bug report and maybe they'll fix it. Wouldn't that be worth it considering how much money you'd save not having to find a laptop that lets you stuff in 256GB?

 

[tomatosummit]

I'm not alone. Browsers should logically put the inactive tabs to sleep and save their data to disk. But instead, they keep leaking memory. Just last night, I "end tasked" Firefox and my RAM went from 91% to 26%. Restored the tabs on relaunch. It's now at 43%. I didn't close any tabs. Actually opened quite a few more.

I think the people who have this "100+ tab" syndrome have a problem that can be solved with a to-do list in browsers. There are definitely tab management add-ons out there but too lazy and too busy to explore them. Plus, I don't want to depend on an add-on that might get abandoned by its developer at some point in the future.

Very much a modern website or use case problem.
When you start the browser it won't load tabs until you select them and bookmarks have been a standard feature of web browsers since before written history. If you worry about addons being abandoned why aren't you worried about web servers going down and saving web pages or videos off the net already?
Next you're going to say you don't use adblock and let js code run rampant.

There's no way modern desktop cpus with a brazillion GB of ram is considered for the internet when there's a joke about facebook machines because, despite team''s best effort's, everything still works fine on my broadwell-y and 4GB of ram.

 

[maddie]

1700's always had poor single thread performance. Partly due to low clocks, but also due to the way Precision Boost is implemented on them. Zen1 can only turbo 2 cores at once, hit more and frequency drops at once to base. Zen1+ have the proper implementation, where it'll turbo as many cores as high as it can. I think this was due to time crunch before launch, AMD didn't have time to refine PBO the first time round.

My 3600non-X have about twice the single threaded performance, while being on par in MT. Despite having two cores less. Zen1 was really a first-gen product with all the quirks that entails.

I already touched how poor memory overclocking is on my particular 1700, I think that is the general consensus.

Anyway, I really look forward for once to do this build over Easter. 5700X + 48GB 3200MHz RAM and a 6600XT should be a pretty decent gamer.

How do you balance 48GB of ram across 2 channels?

 

[maddie]

Getting 256GB because your browser leaks memory is crazy! Besides all that will do is delay the inevitable, you will still run out of memory it will just take longer.

At various times I've had several hundred tabs open in Firefox, and I've got "only" 16 GB on my Linux PC. Quick count right now it has 58 tabs open, and has been running since March 3. Not having any memory issues, though there have been times in the past when it slowed down and restarting Firefox fixed it - i.e. they've had memory leaks but have found/fixed them, then sometime later a new memory leak is introduced which is found/fixed in a later patch.

Not sure what you're doing that uses up memory so badly, maybe one of the sites you have running does something that leaks memory at a very high rate. If you could figure out which site that is you would file a bug report and maybe they'll fix it. Wouldn't that be worth it considering how much money you'd save not having to find a laptop that lets you stuff in 256GB?

That was a strange post. I normally have close to 40-50 tabs across 2 browsers (Brave and Firefox)on a mint machine and use less than 25% of a 16 GB machine.