Info 64MB V-Cache on 5XXX Zen3 Average +15% in Games

[Kedas]

Well we know now how they will bridge the long wait to Zen4 on AM5 Q4 2022.
Production start for V-cache is end this year so too early for Zen4 so this is certainly coming to AM4.
+15% Lisa said is "like an entire architectural generation"

 

[Timorous]

As much as you and others would like the CP2077 result to be an outlier, it really isn't. That's the norm in many RT heavy games when you enable raytracing. It's just another aspect that reviewers are oblivious to.

Anyway, if you don't like CP2077 because its an 'outlier', then feel free to look at Troy: A Total War Saga:

View attachment 59939

Then there's everybody's favourite Hardware Unboxed/Techspot, where they test The Riftbreaker:

View attachment 59940

Are these 'outliers' too?

It's too bad that Hardware Unboxed is already trying to paint the 5800X3D in a favourable light in their upcoming review by testing with DDR4-3200:

View attachment 59941

In the quest of testing which is the fastest gaming CPU, as per AMD's claims, crippling your competition only reinforces the prevalent notions some people have with their channel.

Until more people test with RT on for CPU testing any RT result for any game is an outlier when doing CPU testing because we don't know if 1 person's testing methodology is correct. If multiple places start using RT when doing CPU tests and the results are all very similar then it stops being an outlier.

As for Troy and RiftBreaker, I want them tested, those are the sorts of games that will be similar to Stellaris or CK3 in a lot of ways so it will be an indication of which is best for those types of games. Unfortunately nowhere tests tic rates late game for anything so I have no idea how well the simulation will perform late game where on my current rig 'fastest' slows down to slower than early game 'normal'. I also have no idea if they like cache or clockspeed or memory bandwidth because there is a distinct lack of testing in this arena so I have to guess based on 'similar ish at the surface' stuff.

 

[lobz]

Meanwhile Techpowerup changed their 720p aggregated score. I'll refrain comments as I'm already a "Schrödinger's fan": both AMD and Intel biased depending on who reads this post.

View attachment 59944


What annoys me the most on this forum is people telling me what I think. That must be the meta in terms of "forumsplaining". If you're so worried about my opinion on ADL-S vs 5800X3D why don't you just ask me? I made my prediction (and bet) long ago when I upgraded to 12700K.

Meanwhile when I ask you to analyze your claim of significant performance uplift using DDR5, you churn out a bunch of examples where ADL-S /w DDR4 already has a big lead. It should be clear to anyone in the forum that these results are not the product of DDR5 as much as they are the product of a stronger architecture. And if that's the case, then they should be counted against the other cases where 5800X3D wins by a landslide. As @gdansk already put it very nicely, consider a more complete picture.

As for your reaction towards HUB, i find it perplexing that you accuse them of something they MIGHT do while also posting DDR5 6400 CL36 results from their own testing. How the heck are they crippling the competition when they already made extensive testing with fast DDR5 on 12900KS?! It boggles the mind, really.

I don't think you think that, and you know it!!

 

[coercitiv]

I don't think you think that, and you know it!!

You got me right where I wanted you!

 

[Timorous]

Meanwhile Techpowerup changed their 720p aggregated score. I'll refrain comments as I'm already a "Schrödinger's fan": both AMD and Intel biased depending on who reads this post.

View attachment 59944


What annoys me the most on this forum is people telling me what I think. That must be the meta in terms of "forumsplaining". If you're so worried about my opinion on ADL-S vs 5800X3D why don't you just ask me? I made my prediction (and bet) long ago when I upgraded to 12700K.

Meanwhile when I ask you to analyze your claim of significant performance uplift using DDR5, you churn out a bunch of examples where ADL-S /w DDR4 already has a big lead. It should be clear to anyone in the forum that these results are not the product of DDR5 as much as they are the product of a stronger architecture. And if that's the case, then they should be counted against the other cases where 5800X3D wins by a landslide. As @gdansk already put it very nicely, consider a more complete picture.

As for your reaction towards HUB, i find it perplexing that you accuse them of something they MIGHT do while also posting DDR5 6400 CL36 results from their own testing. How the heck are they crippling the competition when they already made extensive testing with fast DDR5 on 12900KS?! It boggles the mind, really.

On the TPU front there are discrepancies between the frame time analysis and the bar charts.

Why is the 5800X getting 215 FPS here.

but only 200 average here?

The other games in the frame time analysis vs the 5800X are very similar to the bar chart scores (aside from Doom where both score more at a similar rate)

 

[DrMrLordX]

I got a feeling that the next iteration of V-cache will allow overclocking

Why?

3600 Mhz is fast now? I mean the 12900KS are using 6000 Mhz, might as well get 4000 Mhz for AMD right?

Ehhh not sure how many 5800X3D systems will run 2000 MHz IF.

Also the TPU Review used a x570 MB which according to some posters(from the TPU Forums) it can't do much BCLK overclocking(capped at 101 mhz)

bclk OC is hit and miss. For most users it's a miss. I haven't ever gotten it to work on AM4. Usually it's down to using NVMe drives.

 

[coercitiv]

On the TPU front there are discrepancies between the frame time analysis and the bar charts.

TPU has had discrepancies on Alder Lake review data as well, the P vs. E core comparison comes to mind as one of the most obvious.

Consider it a rushed preview, as it must've been in order to cash in on the advance over official reviews. That being said they're putting in a lot of work, an order of magnitude better analysis than what we got from the other "early preview".

 

[Timorous]

TPU has had discrepancies on Alder Lake review data as well, the P vs. E core comparison comes to mind as one of the most obvious.

Consider it a rushed preview, as it must've been in order to cash in on the advance over official reviews. That being said they're putting in a lot of work, an order of magnitude better analysis than what we got from the other "early preview".

Yea there is better analysis but some questions. Their tomb raider results are very different. Probably down to scene choice but the TPU ones look GPU limited so why? Surely for a CPU test you find a scene with high CPU overhead and test there. Same with CP2077. I can see when reviews come that there is going to be a lot of discrepancy there simply due to choice of scene.

I know they do it for all CPUs but I still don't understand CIV 6 FPS testing. It is a turn based game, 60 FPS is fine, 300+FPS is a waste of power. AI turn time is the proper test.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Meanwhile Techpowerup changed their 720p aggregated score. I'll refrain comments as I'm already a "Schrödinger's fan": both AMD and Intel biased depending on who reads this post.

So, Schrödinger's CPU...?

 

[nicalandia]

Someone was able to Bypass the Lock on the 5800X3D and OC the Chip... Would be interesting to see how it performs

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D Overclock-Lock Already Bypassed? 3D V-Cache Chip Spotted Running at 4.8 GHz

AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D, the world's first 3D V-Cache, chip hits retail next week & it looks like overclockers have already bypassed its OC-Lock.

wccftech.com

 

[JoeRambo]

Someone was able to Bypass the Lock on the 5800X3D and OC the Chip... Would be interesting to see how it performs

It's achieved by disabling PCIE M.2 and sticking to SATA stuff. Not really a solution (for 2022). I think the usual 103Mhz Bus clock limitation still applies.

 

[eek2121]

Not sure. I was asking what's the point of such "outlier" discussion. As the TPU benches show there are also scenarios where Zen3D out performs GC even when Alder Lake is equipped with memory more than twice as expensive. There's bound to be plenty of examples on each side. Soon you'll be able to throw selected graphs at each other all day but why bother. Consider a more complete picture.

Not bad for an architecture that is well over a year old eh?

Regardless of where it lands benchmark. wise, the 5800X3D will win in perf/$ and perf/watt (when it comes to gaming) vs. high end Intel. That makes it a win/win in my book.

Reminds me of so many other AMD launches in the past.

Also, people forget that having new chips with larger caches out there will encourage optimization for large caches. Hopefully they release other products in the future.

 

[tamz_msc]

🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦

Yet another ignorant take.

Meanwhile when I ask you to analyze your claim of significant performance uplift using DDR5, you churn out a bunch of examples where ADL-S /w DDR4 already has a big lead. It should be clear to anyone in the forum that these results are not the product of DDR5 as much as they are the product of a stronger architecture. And if that's the case, then they should be counted against the other cases where 5800X3D wins by a landslide.

The Riftbreaker is a clear example of DDR5 being the reason for the significant lead over DDR4. So is Troy, but that is to a lesser extent. The point is, DDR5 can be a deciding factor when it comes to ultimate performance.

 

[tamz_msc]

Ok so I was looking at TPUs data more closely and I found this:



Anybody willing to guess what the issue is, especially with Borderlands 3?

 

[nicalandia]

Is anybody willing to guess what the issue is, especially with Borderlands 3?

What's the issue you see?

 

[Ranulf]

I find it interesting that Total War Troy is now the benchmark of the day for that series of games. The game that CA (the devs) pawned off on the Epic Game store as an exclusive for a year or so. Total War Warhammer 2 would be the better option these days. TW WH3, just came out and in theory should be the one to use but well, its a buggy mess as per usual. I suppose they could go back to the TW:Three Kingdoms version but if I remember right that game is no longer updated.

 

[Makaveli]

Seems more people are getting there hands on these.

 

[jpiniero]

What's the issue you see?

1080p is faster in some cases. Yeah that doesn't make sense.

 

[Det0x]

Seems more people are getting there hands on these.

Alittle strange the 3080 is ~15 degrees warmer when running the 5800x3d rig compared to the 12900k..
At 1440p resolution with "ultra" settings the gfx boosting/temps affect the fps your getting

 

[jpiniero]

Alittle strange the 3080 is ~15 degrees warmer when running the 5800x3d rig compared to the 12900k..
At 1440p resolution with "ultra" settings the gfx boosting/temps affect the fps your getting

Probably fake.

 

[Saylick]

Why?

Because V-cache in it's current usage is relatively new so AMD just locked down the core to mitigate risk. With enough time, I don't see why they couldn't open it up for the customer to overclock after they've properly had a chance to understand the limits of V-cache.

 

[Mopetar]

Is the 5800X3D underperforming in the TPU review?

At 720P its ~10% faster than Zen 3, at 1080P that shrinks to ~7.5%, literally half of what AMD claimed the v-cache gains to be for 1080P. Granted, TPU is 'only' using an RTX 3080, you may see slightly better scaling with a 3090 Ti.

A 3090 Ti might add a little bit, but AMD wouldn't have had one when they made their claims so it's a bit of a moot point.

The reason is that TPU only tested a small set of games. That's going to be more likely to lead to a skewed result one way or another. Once they have more time and give results for their usual 20+ titles I expect the average to shift towards the true value, whatever that may be.

Yeah, that's a crock of BS. He said on Twitter that he actually leaned the other way.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1513655190821343233

He asked the question to see what the audience wanted, that's all. If he was trying to do what you're claiming, he wouldn't have said which way he leaned at all. Doing so inevitably ends up skewing the results.

Why not just do all 3? AMD with best DDR4, Intel with best DDR4, and Intel with best DDR5. It would be interesting to see for Intel buyers who might be on the fence about memory and show both an apples to apples as well as a best configuration to best configuration comparison.

I get that it's more time to do that, but most won't do it makes the analysis all the more valuable.

 

[RnR_au]

Available April 20th.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1514257366774169606

 

[Panino Manino]

Can they still keep saying that it's the "fastest" at this point?

 

[epsilon84]

Can they still keep saying that it's the "fastest" at this point?

Well, they can't go back on that claim now. What else can they say? World's fastest gaming CPU with DDR4*?

 

[epsilon84]

Seems more people are getting there hands on these.

Expected better results for the 5800X3D there since this was a DDR4 only testbench, if anything the 12900K seems a couple of % faster in all the games?

Tbh, I wouldn't put too much faith in those results. Brand new channel, literally less than 24 hours old, no subs lol.